Leinster championship (Proper)

[johnneycool]

I don't think we're at our darkest yet Johnny, that's the problem. I think we could end up in the Christy Ring Cup in a couple of years.

Depends on whats happening away from the limelight.

Is it accepted that Brian Whelahan has the best hurlers in Offaly (prepared to commit) at his disposal or are there a few who could add to the ability of the team?

Whilst the underage teams aren't doing big things, are there still the odd talented hurler or hurlers on the team able to compete with the best from other counties?

Is the club game strong or are KK dominant?

Has anything been put in place by Offaly CB as this defeat could have been foreseen a long way off?

Recent good Offlay club champions in the All Ireland club stages have proved to be a false dawn on the National front don't you think Johnney? Only have to look at how competitive Loughgiel have been lately to see that it bears no reflection on the senior squad and probably hinders it to an extent..

Offaly would have similar club teams to Antrim/Down at senior league grade I'd imagine. While that Birr team of the early mid 90's was exceptional Offaly was still able to have quality players from the other clubs to have a great set up at senior... Some counties have stolen a march on the other smaller counties, your Corks and Kilkenny's and Tipp's will always have the big numbers playing and able to have a lull in fortunes but generally they bounce back....

What the mid and lower tier counties (that's Antrim ffs) need to do  is get off their fecking holes and grab the bull by the horn and put in place a development plan that is achieveable with realistic targets, find out what the bloody problem is and and of course get the funds to finance the fecking thing.... in Belfast there are far more kids nowadays playing hurling than there was in my day, only difference is there seems to be a lack of passion and commitment. These lads that are playing now seem to get bored very easily and won't take advice, they then try something else (more options available now) or good mentors are burned out after a while due to the fact that they can't get any help...

Fair play to Laois they have been building for a while, its not been overnight and themselves and Westmeath have had some great results of late.... Kerry have been another success story and I hope they kick on from the win this year.. beyond me why they can't just compete in Munster but that's another debate...

Hence the reason I asked about the dominance of KK. In the Antrim model, Loughgeil are by far the most dominant, unchallenged by the other contenders even taking into consideration Cushendall who won last year. All things being equal Loughgeil would beat them 9 days out of 10. Dunloy, Ballycastle would currently be another step down from that.

If Kilcormac Killoughey were winning championships pulling up it wouldn't auger well for the standard of club hurling which the Offaly team is picked from, that's what I'm getting at! KK weren't a million miles off Ballyhale last year, granted some of them looked like winter hurlers who mightn't cut in on dryer sods at a higher, less forgiving level.

As for finding out where the problems are, the people best placed to know that are people in Offaly, ditto in Antrim, not some external consultant looking at 'best practice' in places like Kilkenny where the issues and problems are different from place to place.

[AZOffaly]

Offaly would be fairly competitive. Coolderry got to an All Ireland recently as well.

[Milltown Row2]

I don't think we're at our darkest yet Johnny, that's the problem. I think we could end up in the Christy Ring Cup in a couple of years.

Depends on whats happening away from the limelight.

Is it accepted that Brian Whelahan has the best hurlers in Offaly (prepared to commit) at his disposal or are there a few who could add to the ability of the team?

Whilst the underage teams aren't doing big things, are there still the odd talented hurler or hurlers on the team able to compete with the best from other counties?

Is the club game strong or are KK dominant?

Has anything been put in place by Offaly CB as this defeat could have been foreseen a long way off?

Recent good Offlay club champions in the All Ireland club stages have proved to be a false dawn on the National front don't you think Johnney? Only have to look at how competitive Loughgiel have been lately to see that it bears no reflection on the senior squad and probably hinders it to an extent..

Offaly would have similar club teams to Antrim/Down at senior league grade I'd imagine. While that Birr team of the early mid 90's was exceptional Offaly was still able to have quality players from the other clubs to have a great set up at senior... Some counties have stolen a march on the other smaller counties, your Corks and Kilkenny's and Tipp's will always have the big numbers playing and able to have a lull in fortunes but generally they bounce back....

What the mid and lower tier counties (that's Antrim ffs) need to do  is get off their fecking holes and grab the bull by the horn and put in place a development plan that is achieveable with realistic targets, find out what the bloody problem is and and of course get the funds to finance the fecking thing.... in Belfast there are far more kids nowadays playing hurling than there was in my day, only difference is there seems to be a lack of passion and commitment. These lads that are playing now seem to get bored very easily and won't take advice, they then try something else (more options available now) or good mentors are burned out after a while due to the fact that they can't get any help...

Fair play to Laois they have been building for a while, its not been overnight and themselves and Westmeath have had some great results of late.... Kerry have been another success story and I hope they kick on from the win this year.. beyond me why they can't just compete in Munster but that's another debate...

Hence the reason I asked about the dominance of KK. In the Antrim model, Loughgeil are by far the most dominant, unchallenged by the other contenders even taking into consideration Cushendall who won last year. All things being equal Loughgeil would beat them 9 days out of 10. Dunloy, Ballycastle would currently be another step down from that.

If Kilcormac Killoughey were winning championships pulling up it wouldn't auger well for the standard of club hurling which the Offaly team is picked from, that's what I'm getting at! KK weren't a million miles off Ballyhale last year, granted some of them looked like winter hurlers who mightn't cut in on dryer sods at a higher, less forgiving level.

As for finding out where the problems are, the people best placed to know that are people in Offaly, ditto in Antrim, not some external consultant looking at 'best practice' in places like Kilkenny where the issues and problems are different from place to place.

Thats why I said we need to know what the problem is first then tackle it with an effective plan....

[Plain of the Herbs]

Here's a piece I posted on uibhfhaili.com last night and which deals with some of the points raised by johnnyecool and Milltown Row2

The continued decline of Offaly hurling will not be halted by bringing in an outside manager at huge expense. Reason: Offaly hurling has been left way behind and is now so far behind other Division 1B teams that the situation is dire. Only a lack of inter-club bitterness (thankfully) keeps offaly threading water.

Every year we have this debate here. Every year the words 'rock' and 'bottom' get wheeled out. Every year sacking the county board becomes a mantra. Great summertime debate. How many contested those positions at convention? It's on another thread here.

I attended Limerick v Clare in Thurles a few weeks ago, with a visitor from abroad who never saw hurling before. Some who watched it on television said it was disappointing. I thought it was brilliant. The pace, the hitting, the physicality, the refereeing (light touch regulation), the skill. Point is, it was a totally different game to the one Offaly are playing. Completely different stratosphere.

Offaly hurlers can't do the basics, because it just isn't coached at a young age. I'm not talking about striking, hooking, and fetching (though it grated yesterday to see a man who was chronically one-sided get repeatedly turned over). Offaly hurlers can't use overlaps, they botch them by running at the opposing player at the wrong angle. They can't handpass anyway – the pass never goes straight to hand, it has to hop on the ground twice before being fumbled. In short, Offaly can't paly as a team. And yesterday we had fifteen individuals facing a team. The individual thing isn't rooted in a selfishness, far from it, rather they are taught from a young age to bate the ball when they get it, to let the next man fight for it himself.

And puckouts. Clued in teams do short puckouts for a reason, whether to create overlaps, or draw out the opposition out of position and change the angle of the attack. Look at Leix yesterday, who scored so many points from about 50 metres by playing a delivery low to Hyland or Dwyer who were expecting that ball to come the way it did, because they played a s a team. Offaly's short game was a mess – no method (other than they saw it on television some time), the ball had to hop twice before being handled anyway. By the way, James Dempsey doesn't play in goal for his club.

The Leix hurling supporters club put up advertising posters along the road side reading 'This is Laois hurling country'. In Offaly we have commemorations for Séamus Darby and Johnny Flaherty. Remember Offalys Future here telling lads "quit living in the past"?

How many of Offaly's All-Ireland winning hurlers have gone on to make successful coaches? None at inter-county level anyway. Padraig Horan won a Club All-Ireland with Birr and an NHL with Offaly, Joachim was involved with Portumna when they made their breakthrough, Paddy Kirwan with Castletown, Danny Owens now with Kilcormac, though his role seems to be more management than coaching. As time goes on, Joe Dooley's four year tenure with Offaly becomes relatively successful. And that's about it. At the other end of the spectrum we have had a ludramauns, culminating with a bus hijacking episode on the way home from a defeat in Mullingar.

Underage structures would be one thing, but who would do the strategic planning, direct them, manage them, organise them, set targets, review performance? Various underage development squads have taken place in the last decade, but they just haven't worked.

Serious coaching is left to the clubs, and so club hurlers are developed, and the best chance of Offaly hurling success in recent years has been in November.

I found the following recently. It is from the 1998 Offaly yearbook, published in association with the now departed Offaly Express and Offaly GAA. Summing up the disastrous U21 team that year, Alan Walsh began his article "Offaly hurling was issued with a stark warning on Wednesday, June 24 in Portlaoise when the under 21's received a twenty points drubbing – 3-24 to 1-10 – from Kilkenny after an embarrassing and humiliating Leinster semi-final".

He continues "This exceptionally poor performance gave credence to the theory that when Offaly's more established senior stars call it a day, the county will be in dire straits and facing a fall from grace."

And the piece concluded "The bottom line was that Kilkenny were in an altogether different class, skill wise and heart wise, and it was a galling performance that brought home to many 'Faithful' fans the problems that could lie ahead for Offaly hurling."

At the time, Alan probably got the same treatment that fella who first told us the earth was round got. That was written 17 years ago this year. And Offaly hurling still thinks the earth is flat.

[Ash Smoker]

Offaly could get away with being more easygoing in the old days. The "professionalism" of modern hurling has left them behind. They are working from a small base too.

[laoislad]

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/gaa-on-off-the-ball/id340890175?mt=2&i=344350245

Excellent podcast with Cahir Healy on Off the ball last night about the turnaround in Laois and how bad the low days were.

[johnneycool]

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/gaa-on-off-the-ball/id340890175?mt=2&i=344350245

Excellent podcast with Cahir Healy on Off the ball last night about the turnaround in Laois and how bad the low days were.

Laoislad and other leix out there,

Is the victory over Offaly seen as the peaking of this team or is there potential in this team to improve?

What ages would the likes of Willie Hyland, Zane Keenan and co all be? Are they at their peak or on the way up?

[redsetanta]

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/gaa-on-off-the-ball/id340890175?mt=2&i=344350245

Excellent podcast with Cahir Healy on Off the ball last night about the turnaround in Laois and how bad the low days were.

Laoislad and other leix out there,

Is the victory over Offaly seen as the peaking of this team or is there potential in this team to improve?

What ages would the likes of Willie Hyland, Zane Keenan and co all be? Are they at their peak or on the way up?

I would see Sundays victory as a giant Monkey off the back victory. Hyland is only 26/27 so plenty of hurling in him. Laois have the hurlers it's belief and confidence that maybe held them back. Sunday was a huge moment for Laois and hopefully it drives them on to better things. Competing with the bigger teams on a regular basis is what Cheddar is striving for.

[laoislad]

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/gaa-on-off-the-ball/id340890175?mt=2&i=344350245

Excellent podcast with Cahir Healy on Off the ball last night about the turnaround in Laois and how bad the low days were.

Laoislad and other leix out there,

Is the victory over Offaly seen as the peaking of this team or is there potential in this team to improve?

What ages would the likes of Willie Hyland, Zane Keenan and co all be? Are they at their peak or on the way up?

Oh Jesus no! I hope this is only the start. No offence to Offaly but beating them can hardly be seen as the pinnacle. I think the reason everyone is buzzing about it is because they hadn't beaten them since 1972, and they are local rivals. Also it shows that everything being put in place at underage is starting to work.
The Setanta programme is going about 10 years now and it's only now we are starting to see the benefits.
Not saying Laois are going to be All Ireland contenders anytime soon or maybe even ever,but I think what every Laois hurling fan wanted was for the team to be competitive and able hold their own against the bigger teams.
I was at the Cork Laois match a few years ago when they scored 10-20 against us, so to get to where we are now is a huge achievement imo. But it's only the start and there is still a long way to go and probably be a few more heavy beatings along the way.
It's nice to watch a Laois team that aren't beaten before the ball is even thrown in though.
Keenan and Hyland would both be mid 20s

[redsetanta]

Cheddar talking up Galway and getting the pre match banter going.

Will Galway put two big games back to back? Will there be any complacency in them?

Paddy Powers have Galway as firm favourites and rightly so however alot of confidence was garnered in the Laois camp as a result of the Offaly victory and they are in bonus territory now. Expect a big performance and if they don't let in soft early goals like Dublin did it will be in the melting pot with 10 mins to go similar to last year. Cheddar wanted Laois in a Leinster final in year 3. He is 70 mins away from that goal.

[Bud Wiser]

If we do get to a Leinster Final by bating Galway then Cheddar will have done more for hurling in Laois, along with the players and all the others involved of course, than has been done in twenty years. The place is alive down there with coaching sessions for young lads and different events not to mention the amount of appeals from all the clubs for support for the team. There was a time, well one that I remember anyway, when some clubs couldn't give a flying £$ if the county team were playing on the village square. This is different, can't put my finger on any one particular reason but there is huge interest. Laois, it's a dangerous place to be now, one could get the belt of a lotto machine raising funds for clubs, knocked down by mentors rushing to train U-12's at half past six on a Monday evening and all the rushing about that is all part of the good old GAA. I hope we make hay against Galway.

[Teo Lurley]

We haven't played well in the championship away from O'Moore Park. Galway are a good team, I hope I'm wrong but I really can't see us getting into a Leinster final. I'm actually worried about getting beat like Dublin against Galway.

[Asal Mor]

Very interesting post there Plain of the herbs. Great foresight from Alan Walsh.

[G@@]

If we do get to a Leinster Final by bating Galway then Cheddar will have done more for hurling in Laois, along with the players and all the others involved of course, than has been done in twenty years. The place is alive down there with coaching sessions for young lads and different events not to mention the amount of appeals from all the clubs for support for the team. There was a time, well one that I remember anyway, when some clubs couldn't give a flying £$ if the county team were playing on the village square. This is different, can't put my finger on any one particular reason but there is huge interest. Laois, it's a dangerous place to be now, one could get the belt of a lotto machine raising funds for clubs, knocked down by mentors rushing to train U-12's at half past six on a Monday evening and all the rushing about that is all part of the good old GAA. I hope we make hay against Galway.

Ah the essence of it all! Have to agree there is a great buzz about, but this is different as you rightly say - there is a feeling of elation after beating Offaly and the sense of achievement that goes with that. At the same time there is optimism going into this weekend's game - not for a result per say but an optimism that we can deliver a good performance and go toe to toe with Galway and a moral victory is, what I think, deep down is expected and would be appreciated by all.

The Laois Hurling public are becoming aware of the green shoots emerging in the county and the future looks a lot brighter. Most are looking on at this game as a signal of progress in this interesting journey. People are aware of where we have come from, the Cork result sits painfully fresh in the memory. What Cheddar is doing is epic when compared to that dark day - hence the support is a massive vote of appreciation for him and the players on turning it all around in such a short space of time.

Laois Hurling folk are a very proud bunch and at the same time never really have had a proper "county identity" as our neighbours in Kilkenny, Offaly and Tipperary have. Micko's arrival in 2003 and his work in getting a Leinster Title with the footballers sowed the seeds of a more unified county identity. Cheddars arrival in 2012 brought water and heat to those seeds and they now are germinating. Couple all that with the historical inter-club bitterness that thankfully has largely abated in these past few years and it's easier to see the road for progress ahead.

This weekend is huge for Laois hurling - there is a small chance of both our minor hurlers and senior hurlers qualifying for Leinster Final day. If somehow the good Lord above can allow this happen it will be the greatest thing to have happened in Laois Hurling since 1949, or even 1915. This is where we are at, we are working hard for it.

[laoislad]

Well that was disappointing.
Didn't expect to win but was hoping it would be a bit closer.
Galway really took over once the first goal went in, silly goal to concede as well.

Hope they can pick themselves up for the qualifiers.