The State Of Gaelic Football

[brokencrossbar1]

I haven't read through this whole thread as frankly I couldn't be arsed but there seems to be toing and froing (I've never actually written that down but it doesn't look right,  it looks like 2 characters out of Game of Thrones or something!!)  over what changes need to be made, how can we improve our game etc etc.  I have a radical suggestion,  why not leave the f**king rules alone and spend more time investing time and money in improving the level of coaching that's going on and I don't mean just picking-the-ball up coaching etc.  Intercounty football has become too hard to watch as the focus is on not losing,  fear of failure is the key factor.  Managers play conservative, keep ball style football as they don't want to expose their team, their level of knowledge of how the game is played (by that I mean the players) and therefore the managers own inadequacies at coaching.   Most teams are on a fairly level par in terms of conditioning these days at the level they are playing with 1 or 2 exceptions so why not just let the feckers play?  Lose the fear and you may lose 1 battle or 2 battles but long term the war will be won and the game will be played the way it should be.

I do like the ideas of the Segway for referees though one or 2 club referees might need 2 of them strapped together!!!

[AZOffaly]

Bcb, I think to be fair that the fear of losing is a big factor in most counties, or maybe the pressure to win. It's easier to coach a defensive system (in the sense of less risky) than to throw off the shackles and have a cut. My inclination would be the latter, but I'm sure if I was taking a team who had been regularly hockeyed in the past, the first order of business would be to tighten them up, and try to make us hard to beat. That's human nature. You'd have to be fairly secure and confident to approach a game with an attacking mindset when you are probably going to be dashing your attacking waves off the rocks of a massed defense.

Dublin were hammered for being naive last year. Kerry were slated for being defensive. But what Kerry did was perfect. What Dublin did was kamikaze. What would you do?

[brokencrossbar1]

Bcb, I think to be fair that the fear of losing is a big factor in most counties, or maybe the pressure to win. It's easier to coach a defensive system (in the sense of less risky) than to throw off the shackles and have a cut. My inclination would be the latter, but I'm sure if I was taking a team who had been regularly hockeyed in the past, the first order of business would be to tighten them up, and try to make us hard to beat. That's human nature. You'd have to be fairly secure and confident to approach a game with an attacking mindset when you are probably going to be dashing your attacking waves off the rocks of a massed defense.

Dublin were hammered for being naive last year. Kerry were slated for being defensive. But what Kerry did was perfect. What Dublin did was kamikaze. What would you do?

I think the problem is that every season for a manager is seen in a very singular light.  What will I do this year?  What happens if I let them play football and they get beaten?  The people at the top need to say well hold on here let's give this boy a chance to improve the players but the problem is that the coaching at club level is focused on defensive methods completely with an absolute fear of losing.  I was at an underage game the other night where one team was being beaten and had to chase the game.  They continued to play a sweeper as it has become ingrained in their psyche that they have to.  What is happening in too many clubs is that the coaching structures are focusing on the systems as opposed to the skills ergo when the 'better' players go to the county teams they are focused on playing a system instead of being truly comfortable in their own basic ability.  Coaching systems does not improve players, coaching players improves players.  I played a sweeper against my own better judgement recently as my selectors think it's a good idea.  I won't do it again.  We were losing no matter what the sweeper did.  When we went to a flat 15 we brought it back level and only a last minute score against us due to  player dropping a pass short robbed us of at least a draw. 

I see and hear of coaches being the 'drills' kings.  Running the training session like a flow chart from an IT consultancy and that is wrong.  Focus on the basic skills in warm up drills and then play football.  The only way that players develop game awareness is through playing games and that has to be the focus.  But what would I know I only have a Level 1 coaching badge!

[Denn Forever]

Has Basketball increased in popularity recently?  A good footballer would also be a good basketball player. 

[AZOffaly]

I agree with nearly all of that. In fact I agree with all of it. I think everyone, and most importantly the supporters, are guilty of demanding success , or relative success, quickly and any sort of plan that involves pain in the early days is seen as an immediate failure and reason to change the manager, or at least get him to change the plan. I think most coaches would prefer to play a more attacking style, but the original point stands. They are afraid that if they lose heavily, or look naive in losing, that the players, supporters and club behind them will lose faith and belief in the manager/coach.

[Zulu]

I haven't read through this whole thread as frankly I couldn't be arsed but there seems to be toing and froing (I've never actually written that down but it doesn't look right,  it looks like 2 characters out of Game of Thrones or something!!)  over what changes need to be made, how can we improve our game etc etc.  I have a radical suggestion,  why not leave the f**king rules alone and spend more time investing time and money in improving the level of coaching that's going on and I don't mean just picking-the-ball up coaching etc.  Intercounty football has become too hard to watch as the focus is on not losing,  fear of failure is the key factor.  Managers play conservative, keep ball style football as they don't want to expose their team, their level of knowledge of how the game is played (by that I mean the players) and therefore the managers own inadequacies at coaching.   Most teams are on a fairly level par in terms of conditioning these days at the level they are playing with 1 or 2 exceptions so why not just let the feckers play?  Lose the fear and you may lose 1 battle or 2 battles but long term the war will be won and the game will be played the way it should be.

I do like the ideas of the Segway for referees though one or 2 club referees might need 2 of them strapped together!!!

Exactly, it's the mindset of us all that needs to be changed not the rules. As AZ says above Dublin were slated for being naive last year, they weren't naive at all, they were courageous, brave and confident in their own game, as well they should. Donegal got a few breaks in that game but they could easily have been beaten out the gate too. I can however, understand why Dublin will replicate Kerry this year if they play a Donegal type team again. The structure of the football season doesn't lend itself to teams having a go so I'm not sure if football can get out of this negative mindset. It won't prove successful for most teams anymore but if will reduce games to pedestrian conservative borefests where the poorer team will win every now and again due to a mistake or a bit more efficiency in attack. A worrying future for those of us who love the game and believe it is much more than a 'results business shite'.

[Knock Yer Mucker In]

I want to to leave this thread alone as it's clearly full of people who can't count past 10, but I have to do this:

1. There's a 30 mph breeze, and your keeper gets hurt. So a sub corner back gets fired in nets. Are really telling me that as if his day isn't ruined enough, he also has to kick every ball a distance that's beyond him? FFS think about this one you twits.

2. I'm Stephen Cluxton (I'm not really, but let's pretend), and I'm up hitting a free and it drops short. The resultant clearance goes to our centre back who lays it back to me on the halfway line to restart the attack. Foul? f**k off. What about once we start getting even more clever. We are slowing the game down and tossing the ball around our full back line. I step out beyond my full back line, where MDMA fists it back to me. Foul? f**k off. Let's say we all agree that this isn't a foul, but Johnny Cooper the cute wee b**tard decides to step in behind me in nets. I pass it back to him. Foul? f**k off. Seriously, think this one out twits. A goalkeeper is identical in football apart from a couple of rules to allow him to fulfil his job. This is not soccer. Passes to a keeper are not a problem. Not even remotely close.

3. Look, only an idiot shoots from 40m when there's a free man closer to goal. Being able to kick a ball a long way is not as important as being able to play football. If you want to come up with schemes that reward idiocy, go and join Sinn Fein. Leave the GAA alone.

lol

[muppet]

The segway might fall victim to pitch conditions though.
On a wet day, you could have the ref spinning his wheels out in the middle of the field while there's a shemozzle in the large parallelogram.
Also, it would probably need to have a periscope fitted so it could navigate around the Hyde.

We have the technology:

The Men in Black Segway - Hyde Park Model...

[brokencrossbar1]

Has Basketball increased in popularity recently?  A good footballer would also be a good basketball player.

Whatever about increasing in popularity it is a brilliant second sport for a Gaelic footballer.  I play it on a recreational basis at this stage and coach it.  The great thing is that it generally runs in the 'off season' for Gaelic football.  My sons play it at a competitive level and my eldest plays at a good level.  The hand eye co-ordination is a brilliant transferable skill.  We have played it in Cross every winter for underage players for years (albeit at a semi scrum level!!!) but I know that it helped us in terms of our ball handling and fast transfer of the ball between players.

[AZOffaly]

Hand Passing Heathens!!!!!!!!

[Zulu]

Bcb, I think to be fair that the fear of losing is a big factor in most counties, or maybe the pressure to win. It's easier to coach a defensive system (in the sense of less risky) than to throw off the shackles and have a cut. My inclination would be the latter, but I'm sure if I was taking a team who had been regularly hockeyed in the past, the first order of business would be to tighten them up, and try to make us hard to beat. That's human nature. You'd have to be fairly secure and confident to approach a game with an attacking mindset when you are probably going to be dashing your attacking waves off the rocks of a massed defense.

Dublin were hammered for being naive last year. Kerry were slated for being defensive. But what Kerry did was perfect. What Dublin did was kamikaze. What would you do?

I think the problem is that every season for a manager is seen in a very singular light.  What will I do this year?  What happens if I let them play football and they get beaten?  The people at the top need to say well hold on here let's give this boy a chance to improve the players but the problem is that the coaching at club level is focused on defensive methods completely with an absolute fear of losing.  I was at an underage game the other night where one team was being beaten and had to chase the game.  They continued to play a sweeper as it has become ingrained in their psyche that they have to.  What is happening in too many clubs is that the coaching structures are focusing on the systems as opposed to the skills ergo when the 'better' players go to the county teams they are focused on playing a system instead of being truly comfortable in their own basic ability.  Coaching systems does not improve players, coaching players improves players.  I played a sweeper against my own better judgement recently as my selectors think it's a good idea.  I won't do it again.  We were losing no matter what the sweeper did.  When we went to a flat 15 we brought it back level and only a last minute score against us due to  player dropping a pass short robbed us of at least a draw. 

I see and hear of coaches being the 'drills' kings.  Running the training session like a flow chart from an IT consultancy and that is wrong.  Focus on the basic skills in warm up drills and then play football.  The only way that players develop game awareness is through playing games and that has to be the focus.  But what would I know I only have a Level 1 coaching badge!

Again I agree 100%. We rarely do drills with any age group in training and instead our primary focus is on creating decision makers. We play loads of games and ask the players loads of questions about what they did and why they did it. We try to develop a mindset that there is no wrong answer and that in certain situations what would normally be crazy is the right thing to do. We also encourage self expression and risk taking so we do a lot of flick passes and trick shots for fun and to explore the game and what can be done. Football as a game offers so much to young players and coaches of underage teams should be going out with the mind set of winning 6-19 to 6-18 rather than 0-8 to 0-7. Create good footballers who can attack and defend and by the time they are adults if you need them to play a system they'll be able to do it as they'll have the skills and the ability to think through the game.

[AZOffaly]

Zulu, how do ye teach techniques and skills if ye don't do drills? I find games and conditioned games the best and most enjoyable for repetition and game situations, but I haven't found a good teaching alternative to drills/exercises.

[Zulu]

I do a lot of teaching through the warm up. As our kids often don't know what skills are in the game until we introduce them we drip feed them into warm ups and build on them over weeks. We do drills on the odd occasion but we usually do the basics in the warm then use minimal pressure to develop the skills, i.e 1 defender v 10 soloers, 2 defenders v 8 attackers keeping possession with the handpass. I think players will develop technically more slowly this way but will be able to use the skills in game situations much more effectively in time. Of course we will use drills a bit with younger players especially and if the kids are really struggling but we tend to vary from the traditional drills or use them for a minute or two between small games.

[AZOffaly]

OK, interesting. I still do drills for teaching, but I usually structure the sessions

1 - warm up incorporating FMS
2 - small sided games
3 - 1 or 2 max teaching drills on a specific skill
4 - conditioned or short sided games focused on rewarding that skill

For older players the last game can be a full sided game every so often if numbers allow.

[brokencrossbar1]

OK, interesting. I still do drills for teaching, but I usually structure the sessions

1 - warm up incorporating FMS
2 - small sided games
3 - 1 or 2 max teaching drills on a specific skill
4 - conditioned or short sided games focused on rewarding that skill

For older players the last game can be a full sided game every so often if numbers allow.

I would swap 2 & 3 around and use the 'drills' as part of the warm-up.  Then if you were focusing on a particular skill in the 'drills' I would emphasize that in the small games, eg footpassing only, handpssing only.  Then push onto the 'bigger' game.