The State Of Gaelic Football

[screenexile]

Lads , I would be very careful about changing any rules that fundamentally change the way the game is played. Even the slightest rule change can lead to unexpected ( and sometimes unwanted ) side effects.
IMO one of the main reasons that mangers have opted to pull etra defensive players back is becuase it has become so difficult to defend one on one in the current game with the reduction in physicality and introduction of the 'tick' etc. (i.e. it is some much esier to pick up cards in the modern game than it was in the past and this leaves tight marking so much more difficult).
.

What is this 'reduction of physicality' you speak of... what kind of physicality is missing from the game now do you think??

I don't understand this myth that physicality is gone. The only physicality that should be in our game is going for 50/50 balls and shoulder to shoulder tackles which are all still allowed. Wailing the f**k out of somebody with a closed fist has always been a foul and still is!

[time ticking away]

A 13 a side game wouldn't solve the problem either. The space teams are defending en masse is that inside the 45m line. If teams wanted to they could still fill this space with 11 or 12 players. 11v11 or 12v12 inside the 45 still leaves no room

[LeoMc]

Bonus points in League competitions?
3 points for a win
1 additional league point for 10 or more scores, 2 for 20 or more scores.
If a team has to spend their league campaign focused on trying to get scores it should be more difficult to to revert to the defensive mindset come Championship.

[blewuporstuffed]

Lads , I would be very careful about changing any rules that fundamentally change the way the game is played. Even the slightest rule change can lead to unexpected ( and sometimes unwanted ) side effects.
IMO one of the main reasons that mangers have opted to pull etra defensive players back is becuase it has become so difficult to defend one on one in the current game with the reduction in physicality and introduction of the 'tick' etc. (i.e. it is some much esier to pick up cards in the modern game than it was in the past and this leaves tight marking so much more difficult).
.

What is this 'reduction of physicality' you speak of... what kind of physicality is missing from the game now do you think??

I don't understand this myth that physicality is gone. The only physicality that should be in our game is going for 50/50 balls and shoulder to shoulder tackles which are all still allowed. Wailing the f**k out of somebody with a closed fist has always been a foul and still is!

What I mean is there is far less physical contact is tollerated in the tackle/contesting a ball now than in the past.
A forward and defender going for a '50-50' ball is a prime example.
In the past the defender would have been more inclined to take the risk and try and win it clean by getting a hand in or whatever, alot of the time this type of strategy leads to physical contact, or coming together of the two players. The chances now of getting a free given against you for doing this are now far higher than they used to be.
The fact that attacking players now going to ground looking for the free (and getting it) far more often doesnt help either.

Now some of this contact may indeed be a foul, some of it may not, but the point is, it is refereed now more to favour the attacker than it used to be.

Defenders now would tend to allow the attacker to gain possession (not always, but certainly more often) and the try and turn him over with the help of teammates who have funnelled back.

Anyway, my main point isnt really about the physicallity of the game now, its more how rule changes can affect the game in unforseen ways.
That is why i would be very careful about any suggestion for change, and any new rule needs to be well thought through, not just a kneejerck reaction to a couple of seasons of some teams playing an ultra defensive style.

[GJL]

Increase the value of a goal to 5 points. This might mean that teams defend deeper to protect the goal but might open more point scoring chances.

[blewuporstuffed]

Increase the value of a goal to 5 points. This might mean that teams defend deeper to protect the goal but might open more point scoring chances.

Or it might mean that once a team does get a goal, they just retreat back and try and shut up shop, knowing that if they can restrict the to point scoring chances from distance, its likely game over.

[GJL]

Increase the value of a goal to 5 points. This might mean that teams defend deeper to protect the goal but might open more point scoring chances.

Or it might mean that once a team does get a goal, they just retreat back and try and shut up shop, knowing that if they can restrict the to point scoring chances from distance, its likely game over.

They have to get it first!

[blewuporstuffed]

Increase the value of a goal to 5 points. This might mean that teams defend deeper to protect the goal but might open more point scoring chances.

Or it might mean that once a team does get a goal, they just retreat back and try and shut up shop, knowing that if they can restrict the to point scoring chances from distance, its likely game over.

They have to get it first!

True, although I just think a change like that changes the whole dynamic of the sport.
The current defensive systems may be hard to watch, but this is a fundamental change in the game we are talking about, which affects ALL games, not just ones where a team is playing defensively.
I actually would be more inclined towards reducing the numbers to 13 aside than changing the value of the goal. Allthough that change in itself poses a whole range of other issues.

[Keyser soze]

Having read this forum since page 1. Just watching Sunday Game and McStay said GAA legislators need to do something to stop this tactic. I'm sorry but you cannot stop a manager using whatever tactics he wants or innovation. Is it going to be forwards stay in their half and hoof it in? What other sport would dictate rigid formations and style of play? Madness.

Offside?

Doesn't dictate a formation or how many players you can put in a half of field. Every sport the manager has to use innovation. Gaelic football is only at its infancy regards tactics so lets see how it develops. Also why should weaker teams have their bellys tickled by going for it and ultimately be bet out the gate.

It puts restrictions on the formations and tactics you can play. There hasn't even been a proposal yet on how to limit the ultra-defensive football we're seeing, but something is needed. Winning in a game of this type may be seen as justifiable in the short term, but if it damages the support and playing numbers in the longer term, it needs to be legislated against.

But why should we stop ultra defensive football? It's up to managers and players for that. Are you going to tell a talented wing half forward sorry you cannot pass the half way line a play one twos. Stay where you are and let the half back hoof it in to full forward. As for the paying punter you're paying in to support your county, not be entertained. If that's all you want go to the cinema. I'm not saying I agree with defensive football but legislators have no right to dictate to managers. Some of whom haven't kicked a ball in twenty to thirty years.

Well said.  I don't see any calls for rule changes in soccer when teams camp out in their penalty area - it is a tactic and its up to the opposition to figure out a way to beat it.  The game is constantly evolving, and its up to the management to figure out strategies to counter different styles of play.  The blanket defense takes away one on one defending, but anybody it still takes a lot of work to put a tight and effective blanket defence in place while retaining enough potency up front to win a game.  It reminds when when I play squash against one particular individual and I constantly win point after point with a drop shot, he is forever huffing and yapping about it and basically thinks its rational to argue that I shouldn't be allowed to hit that shot as he can never get it therefore its not fair - seriously?!?

Would Kerry have played negative if they were up against anybody else but Donegal, they played open enough against mayo in 2 classics in the semi.

I don't see how someone can defend Kerry from playing super defensive against a defensive team?

That's the best way to beat the mass defences.  By playing attacking football you are only playing into the defensive teams hands. By going the defensive in the same way it becomes like against like, with the general rule being the team with the best forwards win. That's exactly how the All Ireland went.  In terms of the spectators, these types of games are putrid and terrible to watch & last years all ireland was the worst final I can remember.  If Kerry had played their traditional attacking football & lost the final they would have been hammered for playing into Donegal's hands.

You must have a seriously bad memory or be about 10 years old.  Off-hand I can think of a few finals that were over long before half-time when Kerry handed Cork and Mayo their asses in finals, more than once, in the last 10 years alone.

[dublin7]

Having read this forum since page 1. Just watching Sunday Game and McStay said GAA legislators need to do something to stop this tactic. I'm sorry but you cannot stop a manager using whatever tactics he wants or innovation. Is it going to be forwards stay in their half and hoof it in? What other sport would dictate rigid formations and style of play? Madness.

Offside?

Doesn't dictate a formation or how many players you can put in a half of field. Every sport the manager has to use innovation. Gaelic football is only at its infancy regards tactics so lets see how it develops. Also why should weaker teams have their bellys tickled by going for it and ultimately be bet out the gate.

It puts restrictions on the formations and tactics you can play. There hasn't even been a proposal yet on how to limit the ultra-defensive football we're seeing, but something is needed. Winning in a game of this type may be seen as justifiable in the short term, but if it damages the support and playing numbers in the longer term, it needs to be legislated against.

But why should we stop ultra defensive football? It's up to managers and players for that. Are you going to tell a talented wing half forward sorry you cannot pass the half way line a play one twos. Stay where you are and let the half back hoof it in to full forward. As for the paying punter you're paying in to support your county, not be entertained. If that's all you want go to the cinema. I'm not saying I agree with defensive football but legislators have no right to dictate to managers. Some of whom haven't kicked a ball in twenty to thirty years.

Well said.  I don't see any calls for rule changes in soccer when teams camp out in their penalty area - it is a tactic and its up to the opposition to figure out a way to beat it.  The game is constantly evolving, and its up to the management to figure out strategies to counter different styles of play.  The blanket defense takes away one on one defending, but anybody it still takes a lot of work to put a tight and effective blanket defence in place while retaining enough potency up front to win a game.  It reminds when when I play squash against one particular individual and I constantly win point after point with a drop shot, he is forever huffing and yapping about it and basically thinks its rational to argue that I shouldn't be allowed to hit that shot as he can never get it therefore its not fair - seriously?!?

Would Kerry have played negative if they were up against anybody else but Donegal, they played open enough against mayo in 2 classics in the semi.

I don't see how someone can defend Kerry from playing super defensive against a defensive team?

That's the best way to beat the mass defences.  By playing attacking football you are only playing into the defensive teams hands. By going the defensive in the same way it becomes like against like, with the general rule being the team with the best forwards win. That's exactly how the All Ireland went.  In terms of the spectators, these types of games are putrid and terrible to watch & last years all ireland was the worst final I can remember.  If Kerry had played their traditional attacking football & lost the final they would have been hammered for playing into Donegal's hands.

You must have a seriously bad memory or be about 10 years old.  Off-hand I can think of a few finals that were over long before half-time when Kerry handed Cork and Mayo their asses in finals, more than once, in the last 10 years alone.

Those games were over early due to kerry putting on a show and poor performances by the opposition. Last year the mom award should have gone to the poor unfortunate who had to put together the highlights package for the Sunday game. The only positive thing for neutrals was it didn't go to a replay. Tactical genius McGuinness got found out. When Donegal needed to push up on Kerry all the Donegal players could do was defend like the programmed robots they were. No one to take charge and change tactics.

Dublin's last game is in clones against Monaghan. A lot of people like myself would normally go, but watching last Saturday night was bad enough. Don't need to watch same defensive s**te again and see one team win 7-6 on a bank holiday weekend. Far more interesting things to do like watch paint dry!

[Aaron Boone]

Brolly had a good rant against Tyrone on the radio this evening. Don't have a link unfort. Said Tyrone should be playing behind closed doors. 

[rrhf]

And where's he from..

[Mike Sheehy]

There is a distinct lack of the joy in Ulster football. Is it indicative of a greater malaise I wonder ?

[CD]

Do you all remember this time last year we were discussing the very high scoring national league and the suggestion was that the black card rule was creating more open defences?? Or was it just because there were only two Ulster sides in division one?

I like the zonal idea a la netball. There must be 4 players in the offensive 45 at all times. An easy rule to introduce and monitor and it would stretch the game. I think anything is worth a try because at the moment it's terrible to watch!

[trileacman]

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/poll-would-you-rather-win-doing-whatever-it-takes-or-lose-playing-entertaining-football/19426