Irish First

[armaghniac]

It should have been like this from the start in the 1920s.

Would you make the teaching of Irish a mandatory part of the curriculum in a United Ireland ?

Yes, of course.

kind of like a revenge penal law ?

I'm not sure how the penal laws were relevant, they aimed to prevent education not enhance it.

But in a society where 2 languages are spoken, leaders of state and public service must speak both. If parts of NI were allowed opt of Irish then they would never reach these positions of leadership, ensuring that unionists would be second class citizens, as if they did not have enough of a chip on their shoulder.

[thewobbler]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

[Mike Sheehy]

It should have been like this from the start in the 1920s.

Would you make the teaching of Irish a mandatory part of the curriculum in a United Ireland ?

Yes, of course.

kind of like a revenge penal law ?

I'm not sure how the penal laws were relevant, they aimed to prevent education not enhance it.

But in a society where 2 languages are spoken, leaders of state and public service must speak both. If parts of NI were allowed opt of Irish then they would never reach these positions of leadership, ensuring that unionists would be second class citizens, as if they did not have enough of a chip on their shoulder.

They are relevant because they relate to the key word in my question i.e. "mandatory".The reality is that the majority of unionists will never want to speak Irish or play football or hurling. Maybe it should be enough to have a pint and play Rugby and cricket with them.

[armaghniac]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, offer rooms to homosexuals, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

[thewobbler]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

True. I feel the same about people who demand that children must learn music, art, drama, geography, technology, home economics.....and anything else I have no interest in.

Your point would have more substance if any of these subjects was not already being taught, but was then made mandatory in every school.

It would have more substance again if there was no value in learning any of those subjects.

[thewobbler]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, offer rooms to homosexuals, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

classic whataboutery.

I'm guessing you also wear your ashes and lilies with pride, but go out of your way to be offended by poppies every November.

[thewobbler]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

True. I feel the same about people who demand that children must learn music, art, drama, geography, technology, home economics.....and anything else I have no interest in.

Your point would have more substance if any of these subjects was not already being taught, but was then made mandatory in every school.

It would have more substance again if there was no value in learning any of those subjects.

At some point all these subjects were not being taught but were then made mandatory, some not too long ago.

There is merit in learning a second language.

Of course there is. Which is why multiple languages are offered in schools, and just go ensure everyone has a go, studying at least one up to GCSE is compulsory.

Forcing everyone to learn Irish is not the same thing. If anything it's closer to a violation of rights.

[Mike Sheehy]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

True. I feel the same about people who demand that children must learn music, art, drama, geography, technology, home economics.....and anything else I have no interest in.

Your point would have more substance if any of these subjects was not already being taught, but was then made mandatory in every school.

It would have more substance again if there was no value in learning any of those subjects.

At some point all these subjects were not being taught but were then made mandatory, some not too long ago.

There is merit in learning a second language.

We couldn't force our own language on ourselves...what is the point in forcing it on someone else ?

if you want to spread the Irish language stop making people feel they are not Irish if they don't speak it.

[armaghniac]

classic whataboutery.

Fair enough. But you really have to address my point in post 16.

I'm guessing you also wear your ashes and lilies with pride, but go out of your way to be offended by poppies every November.

Not very good at guessing, then?

[thewobbler]

Armaghniac - I'm not sure what you mean about point 16, but I'd be very much of the opinion that there aren't two languages in this state. There is one language that every man, woman and child can understand, then there's a plethora of languages spoken by migrant communities when together, then there's a point scoring exercise involving Irish and, to a lesser extent, the nonsense that is Ulster Scots.

That's all it is, point scoring. Oneupmanship. Zealotry. It's two fingers up to people of a different background. A people who, for as long as we live who will be either a majority group or a huge minority group in this state. So ffs can't we all just stop trying to wind each other up? If I'm lucky I've got 50 years on this planet and most of them will be spent in this state. Do I really have to watch each side getting upset at each other, then aping each other on a perennial loop?

Plus it's a giant f**king waste of taxpayer's money.


Hardstation - sorry to tell you lad, but you come across as anti-education.

The education system was formed to enable people of all backgrounds to achieve their potential in this world, and as a direct result, improve our economy for all.

The only way a system like this can succeed is if it challenges people to do things they haven't previously done, to encounter new subjects, disciplines and knowledge.

If you hadn't been subjected to recorder lessons in P2, you'd now be twisting this argument to show how the education system let you down because you never got the chance to learn music.

But it's always someone else's fault with you anyway.

[armaghniac]

Armaghniac - I'm not sure what you mean about point 16, but I'd be very much of the opinion that there aren't two languages in this state. There is one language that every man, woman and child can understand, then there's a plethora of languages spoken by migrant communities when together, then there's a point scoring exercise involving Irish and, to a lesser extent, the nonsense that is Ulster Scots.

Firsrtyl, the original question was about a united Ireland.

That's all it is, point scoring. Oneupmanship. Zealotry. It's two fingers up to people of a different background.

It is neither of these things. It is simply a statement that these people's long term project to eliminate Irishness is unacceptable.

[ONeill]

Yep. Shakespeare was a dick. Can't believe they're forced to read him.

[Mike Sheehy]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

True. I feel the same about people who demand that children must learn music, art, drama, geography, technology, home economics.....and anything else I have no interest in.

Your point would have more substance if any of these subjects was not already being taught, but was then made mandatory in every school.

It would have more substance again if there was no value in learning any of those subjects.

At some point all these subjects were not being taught but were then made mandatory, some not too long ago.

There is merit in learning a second language.

We couldn't force our own language on ourselves...what is the point in forcing it on someone else ?

if you want to spread the Irish language stop making people feel they are not Irish if they don't speak it.

I don't give a ballix if people don't want to learn Irish but don't give me this "forced into it" ballix when kids are currently going into compulsory subjects in which they have no interest in learning.

Some subjects should be compulsory for kids because they are necessary due to the practicalities of life e.g. Math, English. It is a great sin when people saddle their kids with their own petty, ultra-nationalist outlook on life. Places like the Ukraine are fucked up because of this limited , parochial mentality.

[ONeill]

Well oul John is on a sticky wicket now. But Willie from Stratford is still forced upon us. Even those in Poleglass.

[Mike Sheehy]

I find it most odd that someone who wants to force everyone to learn, speak and read a secondary language, and exclude anyone who does not follow his narrow doctrine, can describe anyone else as a bigot.

True. I feel the same about people who demand that children must learn music, art, drama, geography, technology, home economics.....and anything else I have no interest in.

Your point would have more substance if any of these subjects was not already being taught, but was then made mandatory in every school.

It would have more substance again if there was no value in learning any of those subjects.

At some point all these subjects were not being taught but were then made mandatory, some not too long ago.

There is merit in learning a second language.

We couldn't force our own language on ourselves...what is the point in forcing it on someone else ?

if you want to spread the Irish language stop making people feel they are not Irish if they don't speak it.

I don't give a ballix if people don't want to learn Irish but don't give me this "forced into it" ballix when kids are currently going into compulsory subjects in which they have no interest in learning.

Some subjects should be compulsory for kids because they are necessary due to the practicalities of life e.g. Math, English. It is a great sin when people saddle their kids with their own petty, ultra-nationallist outlook on life. Places like the Ukraine are fucked up because of this limited , parochial mentality.

You've named 2 'important' compulsory subjects. That's great.

why don't you tell us more about Steinbeck champ.....we'd all love to hear more....