New Catholic Church/ DUP coalition! Is this they way forward?

[T Fearon]

Fact.Ashers were asked to supply a wedding cake,a request they acceded to.They were further asked to ice a message on the same cake clearly endorsing gay marriage which they refused to do as it contradicted their Christian beliefs.Quite reasonable in my opinion.

Supplying a bed to be removed from your shop and providing one for gay sex under your roof is no way analogous

[rrhf]

Or worse again a onesie

[Maguire01]

Fact.Ashers were asked to supply a wedding cake,a request they acceded to.They were further asked to ice a message on the same cake clearly endorsing gay marriage which they refused to do as it contradicted their Christian beliefs.Quite reasonable in my opinion.

Just because you say 'fact' doesn't make it so. Ashers were never asked to supply a wedding cake, It was never a wedding cake. It was always a cake with the 'offending' message on it. And employees originally accepted the order and management later decided they would not fulfil it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2683949/Bakery-court-gay-cake-row-owners-refused-decorate-confectionery-slogan-support-gay-marriage.html
But as i've said, I think this case is a bit of a red herring.

Supplying a bed to be removed from your shop and providing one for gay sex under your roof is no way analogous

A bed facilitates sex. You're providing the bed. Does the bible differentiate between locations in terms of what constitutes "facilitating sin"?

[LCohen]

Someone answer me this.Is it reasonable to force a Christian or anyone else for that matter to act in a way that directly contradicts his or her beliefs? That's what this boils down to.

Tony

I gave you 2 examples on Page 3 of this thread (the muslim teacher and the christian ambulance driver). Now, given your stance do you back their positions in the respective examples and would you happy for the 2 individuals to be afforded legal protection by way of a conscience clause in statute?

[LCohen]

Bullshit.I am exercising my right not to facilitate practices I believe to be immoral and sinful and which contradict my religious beliefs.The secular equivalent to this is asking a law abiding citizen to assist with a Bank Robbery

And so if any "christian" business refused you service based upon the aforementioned sins of cutting the hair on your temples or wearing clothes woven of separate materials you would just accept that? I'm just looking for the logic and consistency in your views

[T Fearon]

No because both individuals are not doing the job they applied for and willingly accepted

[T Fearon]

If my custom was refused anywhere for any reason I would very quickly take it elsewhere and wouldn't make a song or dance about it

[LCohen]

If a private business wants to turn away customers - let them at it. It creates a grand little opportunity for someone else.
E.g if Tony's mythical B+B doesn't want gay couples, unmarried heterosexual couples or whatever - open another B+B near him with a sign saying "All paying guests welcome".
Different if it's a public body e.g a Council refusing Planning permission to a gay couple to build a house.

I'm reminded of a shop in village in North Derry that (many years ago) refused to sell milk to an aged catholic woman (accused her of romanism and idolatry). By refusing the woman service the viability was unaffectted. By refusing to serve all catholics their trade was not materially diminished.

The "market" has been proposed as bedfellow of the conscience clause. If they are bedfellows it is so in an unholy mess

[muppet]

Same goods and services? Ashers don't ice  gay wedding cakes for anyone.The likelihood of a homosexual couple engaging in sex in a shared bed is reasonably high don't you think? This is where the conscience clause comes in.One Christian B&B owner may judge that to provide a Bed in his home for a homosexual couple is likely to be facilitating sinful acts,another may judge he is,to the best of his knowledge,just providing a sleeping accessory.

Really? Every night.

BTW stats suggest that over 60% of people pleasure themselves. That is also against your religion. How will your B&B deal with that sin?

[LCohen]

If my custom was refused anywhere for any reason I would very quickly take it elsewhere and wouldn't make a song or dance about it

If only the freed slaves of North America, the indigenous folk of Africa, the chinese of california, the jews of spain, germany (and elsewhere), the irish (in their own land and also then abroad), the colonised peroples of the word and the east africans of the middle east were all as emotionally robust as yourself.

[T Fearon]

Being refused service in one shop is hardly akin to being eternally downtrodden or subject to lifelong slavery,or denied employment now,is it?

[LCohen]

No because both individuals are not doing the job they applied for and willingly accepted

You would differentiate between religious beliefs held from birth and those acquired during your life even if they were widely held by others?

[LCohen]

Being refused service in one shop is hardly akin to being eternally downtrodden or subject to lifelong slavery,or denied employment now,is it?

Who said that it was.

But all were refused service in a shop. I think they were correct to ultimately stand up for themselves. Do you?

[T Fearon]

All relative.I still don't think it's unreasonable for Christian people to have a right not to compromise their beliefs

[LCohen]

All relative.I still don't think it's unreasonable for Christian people to have a right not to compromise their beliefs

Evasion

The conscience clause would be a disaster for any society