Cynical and Negative Armagh?

[Over the Bar]

Wexford manager David Power has accused Kieran McGeeney's Armagh of bringing cynicism, cheating and negativity to a whole new level with the referee allowing persistent,  deliberate fouling to go unpunished and calling on the GAA to deal with Armagh's cynical play.   

Do we need a change in the rules?  Or do referees just need to enforce the black and yellow card sanctions more effectively.   

[sheamy]

It's part of the game now for most teams. The top teams all foul persistently as there is no real sanction applied against it. It's a no brainer really if you are a coach.

e.g. Kerry did it routinely on Sunday at Celtic Park.

It's up to the referees to implement their own directives. They have been told that persistent fouling = 2 fouls which equals a yellow card. Not counting the goalkeeper that means a maximum of 28 fouls per team without a red card. Kerry committed 32 fouls according to media reports and didn't have anyone red carded (three yellows, one black). Derry had 18 fouls resulting in two yellows, one black and one red card. Obviously subs can play a role here too in the total. Also fouls on the ball like over carrying don't obviously count. Not picking on Kerry as they play lovely football too but it's just the last game I saw. Derry did it systematically nine years ago against Tyrone to great effect so it's not new.

The black card was largely a waste of time in trying to combat cynical play because it failed to address the real cynical foul which was the small tug of the arm or the jersey to break up play. The bottom line is that it still pays to foul in football as some referees ignore their own directives once a game starts.

[mackers]

Opposing manager in sour grapes shocker!!
I'll admit that Armagh did foul a lot on Sunday with Aaron Findon a serial offender.  Another referee could well have sent him off. Where I would take issue with him was when he said that Wexford were a young team and not cynical enough.  Every time Armagh broke the 45 in the first half they were unceremoniously hauled to the ground with Armagh's first four points coming from frees resulting from this type of play.  All black cards awarded on Sunday were justified (including Armagh's).
Suppose he was just playing up to the stereotype, our wee team getting beaten by these cynical northerners.  He has plenty of other things to be worrying about going by Wexford's performance on Sunday.

[armaghniac]

Of course Armagh were "negative", they were trying to get the ball before Wexford and such like. I don't think they were especially cynical, indeed players like Findon were fouling in a naive way. I think some of this flapping of arms arises more from an inability to tackle than cynicism as such. Wexford too were fouling in a similar way.

[yellowcard]

What sort of a buck eejit would start a seperate thread about this? Surprise surprise, its a Tyrone fan who is obsessed with blackening Armagh. Trying to deflect from your own negative cynical display against Mayo perhaps. Also the fact that the Irish News have printed it in a seperate article on a Tuesday after the game (so that it had its own seperate article) is just another example of that papers agenda against Armagh. As for the Wexford manager, has he had his eyes shut for the last few years or is he not aware of the way the game has gone. This football is the norm in most counties and to highlight it after a 10 point defeat when he really should be looking at getting his own house in order is pathetic.   

[orangeman]

Armagh have raised the levels of intensity, tackling, aggression levels in their play and that should be no big shock. That's how you get results and they're on an upward curve.

[seafoid]

Armagh have to get out of division 3 and they'll do anything. Normal service will be resumed when they get to a more refined level.
That is what happened to Meath anyway.   

[orangeman]

Armagh had Donegal almost gone in last year's quarter final so it almost got them to the semi finals last year - no need to change a successful recipe.

[ck]

The black card was aimed to deter this type of play and has had some impact but this has been limited. One foul should be a tick, 2 should be a sin bin and yellow. Armagh would finish games a few players down if this were to be implemented.
Black cards remain for cynical body checking as in fairness that has now largely been eradicated.

The main issues remains - Gaelic Football is the only sport in the world where it is an advantage to foul. This should simply not be the case.

[illdecide]

What sickens my hole is Kerry are prob the most cynical team in Ireland and yet they're still painted as the Brazil of Gaelic football(Mr nice guys...my arse) but when an Ulster team does it it's headlines in the paper and top topic for these analysts. It's always been the case, there are guys on the team to win possession or stop the opposition and give it to lads that can score...Some teams just have a few more flair players than others.

[yellowcard]

The way I see it is that most football teams are all clones of each other in the modern game but yet most counties want to claim they don't adopt these tactics and play football the way the purists want. Its the footballing equivalent of wanting to take the moral high ground. Some counties get an unwanted label mostly due to media prejudice or bitter jealousies which applies in Armaghs case. For whatever reason Armagh are stereotyped based on McGeeneys robust physical style as a player and once you get the label it tends to stick. Kerry on the other hand have been media darlings for beautiful kick passing football which is also a complete nonsense since Jack O'Connor and subsequently Eamon Fitzmaurice have gone down this road. It's fair enough to criticise the style but don't be a hypocrite, Kerry have been as bad as anyone else and its the way that the current rules dictate that you have to play to win the game. Dublin lost an All Ireland last year for trying not to compromise their attacking style. They are probably a 10 point better team than Donegal and yet lost a game for sticking to their principles of wing backs bombing forward and leaving oceans of space in behind. Will they make the same mistake this year? No chance I'd say, Gavin if he has any cop on will have learned his lesson.

Two years ago Armagh were slated for their naieve tactics against Cavan in the Ulster championship, now they are being criticised for their negative cynical play. No worse or no better than the majority of other counties I say but mud sticks.

[Over the Bar]

What sickens my hole is Kerry are prob the most cynical team in Ireland and yet they're still painted as the Brazil of Gaelic football(Mr nice guys...my arse) but when an Ulster team does it it's headlines

You can add Dublin to that.

[mackers]

The black card was aimed to deter this type of play and has had some impact but this has been limited. One foul should be a tick, 2 should be a sin bin and yellow. Armagh would finish games a few players down if this were to be implemented.
Black cards remain for cynical body checking as in fairness that has now largely been eradicated.

The main issues remains - Gaelic Football is the only sport in the world where it is an advantage to foul. This should simply not be the case.

They wouldn't be on their own.....

[jmk]

The Wexford manager obviously was wasn't watching when Andy Mallon was repeatedly pulled down when he got possession in the second half and tried to counter attack. His analysis is lazy stereotyping from a manager feeling the pressure of having lost the opening 2 games by large margins.

[screenexile]

What sickens my hole is Kerry are prob the most cynical team in Ireland and yet they're still painted as the Brazil of Gaelic football(Mr nice guys...my arse) but when an Ulster team does it it's headlines

You can add Dublin to that.

Not as bad! If they were cynical in the slightest they would have beaten Donegal last year!