The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[T Fearon]

Genes are irrelevant.Alcohol is a disease for which victims receive treatment,counselling etc.No one is trying to suppress homosexuality but it is wrong to elevate such relationships to a par with normal heterosexual ones and demeans the holy sacrament of marriage.I dare anyone in this discussion to state that they would have been content to have been reared by same sex "parents".

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

[Maguire01]

Genes are irrelevant.Alcohol is a disease for which victims receive treatment,counselling etc.No one is trying to suppress homosexuality but it is wrong to elevate such relationships to a par with normal heterosexual ones and demeans the holy sacrament of marriage.I dare anyone in this discussion to state that they would have been content to have been reared by same sex "parents".

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

The bible is laced with a lot of things that are conveniently ignored.

And marriage is only a holy sacrament if it's a religious marriage. An increasing number of heterosexual weddings are civil. Do you want to ban these too?

[seafoid]

Genes are irrelevant.Alcohol is a disease for which victims receive treatment,counselling etc.No one is trying to suppress homosexuality but it is wrong to elevate such relationships to a par with normal heterosexual ones and demeans the holy sacrament of marriage.I dare anyone in this discussion to state that they would have been content to have been reared by same sex "parents".

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

This thread has a great dynamic. Opposing views strongly held plus Tony doing comedy.
The holy sacrament of marriage is a social construct that is decreasing in relevance. Lots of kids are reared now by unmarried parents. It doesn't seem to do them much harm.

Do gay people go to heaven, Tony ?

I would have a lot of time for magpie seanie's point of view. He doesn't feel comfortable about voting yes but he doesn't come out with a load of mumbo jumbo in support of his thinking.

[Milltown Row2]

Genes are irrelevant.Alcohol is a disease for which victims receive treatment,counselling etc.No one is trying to suppress homosexuality but it is wrong to elevate such relationships to a par with normal heterosexual ones and demeans the holy sacrament of marriage.I dare anyone in this discussion to state that they would have been content to have been reared by same sex "parents".

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

Tony what if the bible is all bullshit??

[muppet]

Genes are irrelevant.

Genes are the reason we exist and have survived thus far.

Alcohol is a disease for which victims receive treatment,counselling etc.

Alcohol is a liquid not a disease.

No one is trying to suppress homosexuality but it is wrong to elevate such relationships to a par with normal heterosexual ones and demeans the holy sacrament of marriage.

"I am not trying to put down Irish people but it is wrong to elevate them to the same status as British people and to bestow equal rights upon them."

I dare anyone in this discussion to state that they would have been content to have been reared by same sex "parents".

No one could have been before now. We may find in the future they outperform other children. I dare any Armagh person to say they would have been content to be raised as a Tyronie. Should we ban them too?

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

This is simply what it comes down to for many people. I will condemn others because then I will go to Heaven.

[T Fearon]

What if the bible is not bullshit,but true,and there is a Day of Judgement and a Heaven and Hell.It cannot be discounted as none of us know whether it's true or not.

All Christian denominations oppose homosexuality (but not homosexuals),it's one of the few points of total agreement.They are perfectly entitled therefore to oppose gay marriage as a desecration of the sacrament of matrimony and to have real concern about where society is heading.

[muppet]

What if the bible is not bullshit,but true,and there is a Day of Judgement and a Heaven and Hell.It cannot be discounted as none of us know whether it's true or not.

All Christian denominations oppose homosexuality (but not homosexuals),it's one of the few points of total agreement.They are perfectly entitled therefore to oppose gay marriage as a desecration of the sacrament of matrimony and to have real concern about where society is heading.

All Christian denominations condemned Jews until about a century ago.

[mylestheslasher]

What if the bible is not bullshit,but true,and there is a Day of Judgement and a Heaven and Hell.It cannot be discounted as none of us know whether it's true or not.

All Christian denominations oppose homosexuality (but not homosexuals),it's one of the few points of total agreement.They are perfectly entitled therefore to oppose gay marriage as a desecration of the sacrament of matrimony and to have real concern about where society is heading.

Its one of the silver linings of this vote, it will show the "christian denominations" that the majority of people dont' give two shites what they think or teach.

[LCohen]

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

You keep telling me how easy it will be you to fine evidence and then go on to fail to produce any evidence. Fail in the most complete sense i.e. not one single syllable

BTW "laced" indicates a very interesting choice of verb

[LCohen]

What if the bible is not bullshit,but true,and there is a Day of Judgement and a Heaven and Hell.It cannot be discounted as none of us know whether it's true or not.

All Christian denominations oppose homosexuality (but not homosexuals),it's one of the few points of total agreement.They are perfectly entitled therefore to oppose gay marriage as a desecration of the sacrament of matrimony and to have real concern about where society is heading.

All Christian denominations condemned Jews until about a century ago.

Tony it does not work like that. Are you following the quran, the book of mormon or even great tracts of the ilyad? Or do you have proof that they definitively wrong. Your life would be one of great hypocrisy if your justification for hedging the bible did not extend to other texts of a similar nature

Muppet
well said. You have reminded all who read this that it is very possible for christianity to be unified on a point of practice and for that practice to be motivated by either shocking ignorance or pure "evil" and to be subsequently exposed as such. The unity of christianity on a point is no barometer of the wisdom or even decency of the position. And you have hit upon a shining example.

[J70]

Genes are irrelevant.Alcohol is a disease for which victims receive treatment,counselling etc.No one is trying to suppress homosexuality but it is wrong to elevate such relationships to a par with normal heterosexual ones and demeans the holy sacrament of marriage.I dare anyone in this discussion to state that they would have been content to have been reared by same sex "parents".

LCohen the bible is laced with condemnation of homosexuality.

I would have been fine with it. I'm sure the bigots and ignoramuses would have made life difficult at times, but sure that is the case for any family that is different,  whether it is skin colour or religion or accent or whatever.

[T Fearon]

Is it just me or are there a significant number of people who would vote for or support anything just to get up the noses of Christians? Where does this hatred of Christianity emanate from? Is it a sign of fear that causes many to ridicule the existence of God or the veracity of scripture? Deep down is there a tiny part of them that concedes that maybe it is all true and that they will face judgement? Why can't Christian beliefs be respected? After all,if the people support gay marriage in a referendum,it will be enacted,but no right thinking person should deny the Christian churches the right to guide their flocks and others?

[easytiger95]

Given the talk about alcoholism, i think I'm a Fearonholic. I look at the posts, think to myself "No, that way lies madness," I go and lie in a darkened room, get the shakes.....and then I'm back on the site, hitting reply. Good Jaysis, here we go again.....

Tony, this vote is not about scripture. Any changes in the constitution will not have to be adopted by the Catholic Church. It simply means the state will recognise these marriages, which will be made under the auspices of the state, not organised religions (except for the ones who do recognize them consistent with their own doctrine).

Given the ambiguity and doubt the Pope has expressed about Catholicism's treatment of homosexuality (don't worry if you don't recognise the words "ambiguity" and "doubt" - they relate to human emotions, Tony) you would think that any Catholics, who think deeply about their religion, would question the wisdom of taking a millenia-old collection of books from the Middle East on face value. Especially given that many of these books directly contradict each other.

But even that is just my opinion, it is not my place to question the beliefs of others, and this is not what this referendum seeks to do. Rather than seeking to extend secular influence into religious matters, it seeks to remove religious influence from the secular. And after that, let every cripple have his own crutch.

That doesn't mean, of course, that i have to listen to some guy telling me I'm going to burn in hell forever for holding this opinion - that's just bad manners, and every religion and non-religion has their share of nuts. I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with Richard Dawkins, whilst on my way to bringing my son to his first Communion, for instance. I think you'd get on with him Tony. Fundamentalists always recognise each other.

[T Fearon]

I am not a religious fundamentalist,but I believe the basic tenet that commit sin and face punishment.I don't get too exercised by the minutiae of the bible,save for the gospel and the life of Christ,and particularly his resurrection. But scripture does make it clear in a non contradictory manner that there is no approval for homosexuality and I think the issue of gay marriage and particularly the ability of those in gay marriages to adopt children,should be examined very carefully for all the ramifications. It simply is not natural and should not be elevated to the same plane of what is natural.

[easytiger95]

Yes, I know you don't bother with the minutiae of the Bible. in another thread, you said Barrabas died beside Jesus. Which is a fairly big mistake to make, Mr. Luther.

But if you really don't bother with the minutiae, then why don't you tell us exactly where the homosexuality prohibition in the Bible is in the Bible - surely, for a one-page Christian like yourself, it must have been somewhere fairly prominent? Like the 10 commandments, maybe? Or the Last Supper? Or the Sermon on the Mount? Surely, a man as unconcerned with details as yourself isn't talking about something as obscure as Leviticus? Because it is not mentioned in the Gospels Tony.

As for the unnatural nature of homosexuality - well, it's been present in human behaviour and cultures since there were humans, and I think the Neanadarthals (you know them tony!) and the Cro-Magnons had their share as well. Indeed, homosexuality is present in all forms of mammals, especially those Godless dolphins!! I know you don't like evolution Tony, but it has always been with us, it hasn't been bred out of our and other species, and what could be more natural than that?