Sigerson 2015

[theticklemister]

Serious question Stronghold. How does player registration at UU work? Do students who get accepted to UU at Magee or UU at Coleraine get to play for UUJ if they want?

When I was involved in Magee we had a few uuj boys who were doing their placement year in derry city and we were allowed to use them. This about 5 years ago

[CSC]

Player registeration in UU was based on the actual college that you were based in. One university but three different clubs.

The Magee situation never arose in my time there, so I don't know how that one worked out

[ck]

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Agree with this, and perhaps they still will. It should certainly be an option for council.

Why? If Queen's hadn't been deemed to be in breech of the rules, they would have been re-instated. They have been punished for their transgression by not being allowed back in.

Taking the emotion out of it CK, I can't see why you think Queen's should get an extended ban when Sligo shouldn't. If the adjudication is upheld (assuming there will be appeals), the transgressions from both are equally stupid in my view.

How have Queen's suffered in this? ITS have been thrown out of a competition that they were in. Queen's were thrown out of a competition they were already out of. Hardly an equal punishment?
I fully understand Queen's objecting as I for one disagree wholeheartedly with what is happening in college football and it desperately needs a clean up. I don't see the punishment that Queen's got as a deterrent at all.
The players in question should suspended.
The College administrators should be suspended.
The colleges should get future bans in Sigerson.

Then we would we see a proper clean up. Based on how this has all been handled, let's face it we'll just see the same shi*t next year.

[Throw ball]

While I agree wholeheartedly that this is a bit of a farce I disagree on the list of suspensions you propose. I can understand the wish to ban teams in the future but a university team is more fluid than most and the innocent could be punished. The administrators should definitely be banned. I am less certain on the players. The players cannot be expected to keep up on the changing rules of university football administration. In the cases mentioned I would be surprised if it even entered their head that they were not eligible. To punish them now would only be a bully showing how hard he is.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

I think it was very sloppy by whoever the GAA officer in IT Sligo is NOT to realise the rules regarding Sabbaticals...BUT, that being said, to be elected to the Students Union you do have to be a Full time student, which Doak clearly was, so in the scheme of things I feel it's a tad harsh on IT Sligo.

Do you realise how contradictory and stupid that statement is? Are you training to be a C of E vicar?

Are you training to be Daily Mail journalist?

Doak, the IT Sligo player actually IS a Fulltime Student. Compared to some of the players of dubious eligibility in recent times, this is an administrative error, not a deliberate policy by Sligo..THAT is what I meant.
If this is too complex for your little mind to grasp I apologise.

[OverThePostsAWide]

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Agree with this, and perhaps they still will. It should certainly be an option for council.

Why? If Queen's hadn't been deemed to be in breech of the rules, they would have been re-instated. They have been punished for their transgression by not being allowed back in.

Taking the emotion out of it CK, I can't see why you think Queen's should get an extended ban when Sligo shouldn't. If the adjudication is upheld (assuming there will be appeals), the transgressions from both are equally stupid in my view.

How have Queen's suffered in this? ITS have been thrown out of a competition that they were in. Queen's were thrown out of a competition they were already out of. Hardly an equal punishment?

Nonsense. If Queen's were not found guilty of playing illegal players, would they still be in the competition? If the answer is yes, then they were not "already out of" [the competition]. If the answer is no, then you've lost the plot completely

I fully understand Queen's objecting as I for one disagree wholeheartedly with what is happening in college football and it desperately needs a clean up.

so why so bitter towards Queen's?

I don't see the punishment that Queen's got as a deterrent at all.

You may be right. But that is a whole different discussion. The GAA doesn't do "deterrent punishments" full stop.

The players in question should suspended.

I have always had a problem with this. Perhaps if they were blatantly and knowingly flouting the rules, but most players just trust what the manager/club officials tell them. And not all eligibility questions are clear cut - look at the McKenna Cup

The College administrators should be suspended.

Yes, I can see that in serious cases of dishonesty, but can you name one chairman or secretary who has been suspended for players deemed illegal? McKenna Cup...

The colleges should get future bans in Sigerson.

I admire your plural but don't agree with the sentiment. I don't think future students should be punished - and I don't think it would hold up.

Then we would we see a proper clean up. Based on how this has all been handled, let's face it we'll just see the same shi*t next year.

The sky hasn't fallen in. The sun will rise tomorrow. The GAA will continue to have rows over rules and eligibilities and conduct. And the cowboys will be a bit more circumspect about skirting the rules. And the cycle will begin again.

[supersarsfields]

Queens should be banned from  the Sigerson next year instead of kicking them out now, when they are already out

Agree with this, and perhaps they still will. It should certainly be an option for council.

Why? If Queen's hadn't been deemed to be in breech of the rules, they would have been re-instated. They have been punished for their transgression by not being allowed back in.

Taking the emotion out of it CK, I can't see why you think Queen's should get an extended ban when Sligo shouldn't. If the adjudication is upheld (assuming there will be appeals), the transgressions from both are equally stupid in my view.

How have Queen's suffered in this? ITS have been thrown out of a competition that they were in. Queen's were thrown out of a competition they were already out of. Hardly an equal punishment?
I fully understand Queen's objecting as I for one disagree wholeheartedly with what is happening in college football and it desperately needs a clean up. I don't see the punishment that Queen's got as a deterrent at all.
The players in question should suspended.
The College administrators should be suspended.
The colleges should get future bans in Sigerson.

Then we would we see a proper clean up. Based on how this has all been handled, let's face it we'll just see the same shi*t next year.

But if Sligo were kicked out then Queens would have been re-instated had they not had illegal players. So they've both been kicked out. 

[johnneycool]

Surely, as in all GAA teams/clubs, there is some sort of registration system for players?

The Chairman and secretary of a club is normally take full responsibility for this and they take the rap if there is an illegal or incorrectly registered player and they can get lengthy bans. Should the players be banned? 

Does this not apply in this case of colleges? Given the importance of this competition, will this be pursued?



I'm not on a witchhunt but is it a case that college teams have no accountability and therefore they take the risks. If it was the case that players and officials had the threat of bans hanging over them, you'd see a lot of it cleaning itself up very quickly.

The same rules and sanctions under the official guide apply to all third level colleges, competitions, players and officials.
We will have to wait and see the detail of the Higher Education Council decision.

So the illegal players are looking at 48 week bans just like Andrew Shore, the Wexford hurler?

[CSC]

The clean up should be straight forward,

Limit the eligibility rules to time period or actual courses  ( e.g play a max of 5 years at college, or only apply to undergrad courses)

Freshers play fresher football only,

Only applies to Full time courses only
Student officers are illeligible

Clear guidelines for scholarship, (academic levels, number of scholarships permitted (for example, each club can only offer X scholoriships for the total club per year, financial assistance provided, centrally monitored by the HE in Croke Park HQ)

[OverThePostsAWide]

I think it was very sloppy by whoever the GAA officer in IT Sligo is NOT to realise the rules regarding Sabbaticals...BUT, that being said, to be elected to the Students Union you do have to be a Full time student, which Doak clearly was, so in the scheme of things I feel it's a tad harsh on IT Sligo.

Do you realise how contradictory and stupid that statement is? Are you training to be a C of E vicar?

Are you training to be Daily Mail journalist?

Doak, the IT Sligo player actually IS a Fulltime Student. Compared to some of the players of dubious eligibility in recent times, this is an administrative error, not a deliberate policy by Sligo..THAT is what I meant.
If this is too complex for your little mind to grasp I apologise.

Of course he is - all sabbatical officers are students - that's what sabbatical means. Most (if not all?) are full time students. He is a legitimate student and sabbatical officer.

Sabbatical officers used to be allowed to play. A rule was introduced that they were ineligible. The rule is about their role - being a sabbatical officer. Whether they would otherwise be eligible is irrelevant. The "problem" wasn't that university clubs were bringing in brickies to be sabbatical officers in order to play football...

You said you thought Sligo sloppy in disregarding/being unaware of this rule, but then mused that you thought they were treated "a tad harsh" because their sabbatical officer was a full time student. Huh?

[OverThePostsAWide]

Stranmillis is a stand alone club competiting in Div 3 football and in ladies competitions. It has the same rights and independence as St Mary's .
Queens lost this case before Christmas at the Higher Education Committee, then lost again at the Central Appeals Committee. Then went to the DRA and lost again. (Must have more money than sense)
Surely you are not suggesting that Queens can pick St Mary's students. Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Help me out here Stronghold. I don't see any Queen's related decisions posted here (the latest one is from the end of October - after the Ryan Cup started):
http://www.sportsdra.ie/dradecisions.htm

Post a link up when it gets out of your head and into the real world Stronghold. There's a good lad.

It is obvious that neither college were trying to sneak the players in question through.

Occam's Razor...

- Sligo through ignorance and/or stupidity thought their sabattical officer was eligible.
- Queen's through pig-headedness believe Stranmillis students should continue to be allowed to play for them as they did last year and the years before that.
- Stronghold has an agenda and has been caught telling porkies. Again.

Ignorance, stupidity, and pig-headedness are founding principles of the GAA. Somebody put the kettle on.

[theticklemister]

Player registeration in UU was based on the actual college that you were based in. One university but three different clubs.

The Magee situation never arose in my time there, so I don't know how that one worked out

That's cause we were shit and ages at a third tier level so they didn't give a buck. Plus no questions get asked that far down the tiers.

[Syferus]

Sligo appealing on Monday. We'll see how it goes.

[stronghold]

Stranmillis is a stand alone club competiting in Div 3 football and in ladies competitions. It has the same rights and independence as St Mary's .
Queens lost this case before Christmas at the Higher Education Committee, then lost again at the Central Appeals Committee. Then went to the DRA and lost again. (Must have more money than sense)
Surely you are not suggesting that Queens can pick St Mary's students. Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Help me out here Stronghold. I don't see any Queen's related decisions posted here (the latest one is from the end of October - after the Ryan Cup started):
http://www.sportsdra.ie/dradecisions.htm

Post a link up when it gets out of your head and into the real world Stronghold. There's a good lad.

It is obvious that neither college were trying to sneak the players in question through.

Occam's Razor...

- Sligo through ignorance and/or stupidity thought their sabattical officer was eligible.
- Queen's through pig-headedness believe Stranmillis students should continue to be allowed to play for them as they did last year and the years before that.
- Stronghold has an agenda and has been caught telling porkies. Again.

Ignorance, stupidity, and pig-headedness are founding principles of the GAA. Somebody put the kettle on.

No porkies, No agenda, just facts. Queens went to CA , CAC and then the DRA before Christmas.  The dicision must not be posted yet on the DRA site. All third level clubs in the Country where notified of this. Check it out yourself.  I'll accept an apology later. By the way no Stranmillis player played for Queens until last year and not before.

[OverThePostsAWide]

Strong unequivocal assertions Stronghold...

Actually in the past before they had their own team Stranmillis students played for St Mary's, Stepen O Neill a good example.

Can you name a second or were you just exaggerating for effect?

All third level clubs in the Country where notified of this. Check it out yourself.

Unlike yourself, obviously, I am not involved with any third level club, so I am relying on publicly available information.

By the way no Stranmillis player played for Queens until last year and not before.

Are you sure? I only need one example to show you up as a liar or a fool with an agenda...

I thought Ryan Rafferty was a Stranmillis student for his 3 years at Queen's? I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong or you will post up an apology.