Looks like another Fundamentalist Muslim attack, this time in Paris.

[seafoid]

Well in fairness it was defending itself from a direct attack from its neighbour during this conflict.

Are u saying that Iran is not a democracy? I'm fairly sure it is, and in my opinion it is the most stable democracy in the region.

But I suppose their form of democracy is the wrong type because they've elected the wrong type of people in the past and it needs the good ol western powers to go in there and show them how it's done so they can clean their act up. This approach has worked really well in the past and is still working really well today 

The Egyptians exercised their democratic will and look where that got them!
Arab spring me arse!

There was a big conservative reaction from Saudi Arabia to the Arab Spring. I think their support of ISIS is part of this.
Egypt will probably blow up again in a few years.

I think that abhorrence of wahhabism is one of the few things that we might actually agree on Seafoid. What is it about this branch of the Sunni religion that you especially despise (apart from its link to the Saudi government)

It's a nihilistic form of religion, like some elements of Irish Catholicism from the 50s. Far too cruel and heartless, manichean and brutal.
The iconoclasm is shocking. Wahhabis were behind the destruction of the Buddha statues at Bamiyan in Afghanistan. 
And the Saudis push it as an attempt to wipe out forms like Sufism which is far more representative of how people actually live. 

[Mike Sheehy]

It's a nihilistic form of religion, like some elements of Irish Catholicism from the 50s. Far too cruel and heartless, manichean and brutal.
The iconoclasm is shocking. Wahhabis were behind the destruction of the Buddha statues at Bamiyan in Afghanistan. 
And the Saudis push it as an attempt to wipe out forms like Sufism which is far more representative of how people actually live.

That is a very good synopsis of my view of wahhabism as well. However, wrt to the destruction of the Buddha, would you say that wahhbism is a unigue strand of Islam in terms of its fundamentalist views of idolatory or are there other strands of Islam that place undue emphasis on idolatory ?
Indeed, the question may be asked, has mainstream Islam strayed too far in its deification of Mohammed which, if we are honest, is the ultimate form of idolatory since Mohammed is not god.

[Eamonnca1]

Well in fairness it was defending itself from a direct attack from its neighbour during this conflict.

Are u saying that Iran is not a democracy? I'm fairly sure it is, and in my opinion it is the most stable democracy in the region.

But I suppose their form of democracy is the wrong type because they've elected the wrong type of people in the past and it needs the good ol western powers to go in there and show them how it's done so they can clean their act up. This approach has worked really well in the past and is still working really well today 

So you think the elections in Iran are all legit and above board? No rigging? The result is the true expression of what the people want? 

[haveaharp]

So saying "tonight I feel like charlie coulibaly" is expressing support for the terrorists??

I'm still not sure who would be incited by such a comment???

I
A comedian that has been accused of being anti semetic in the past posts on facebook about a terrorist act against Jews.
Someone else in the past may have said tonight I feel like Billy wright after some innocent catholic got shot.
I can see why it might incite further strife. However in the 2nd scenario the Billyboy wouldn't have been arrested. In the interest of free speech of course.

Does his previous actions diminish his right to free speech? I would have thought that it's entirely irrelevant.

Incite further strife?? Sure you could say the very same thing about CH publishing more cartoons. Is that not the whole point of free speech?

Free speech does have its limitations. Previous form would be taken into account when charging anyone. Mr Bryson for example is about to find that out. Suggesting support for a murderer is not the same as satire against religion. There is a big difference.

How was his comment "suggesting support"? You must be having a laugh

What did his comment mean then? Did the French authorities completely misunderstand him ?

[seafoid]

It's a nihilistic form of religion, like some elements of Irish Catholicism from the 50s. Far too cruel and heartless, manichean and brutal.
The iconoclasm is shocking. Wahhabis were behind the destruction of the Buddha statues at Bamiyan in Afghanistan. 
And the Saudis push it as an attempt to wipe out forms like Sufism which is far more representative of how people actually live.

That is a very good synopsis of my view of wahhabism as well. However, wrt to the destruction of the Buddha, would you say that wahhbism is a unigue strand of Islam in terms of its fundamentalist views of idolatory or are there other strands of Islam that place undue emphasis on idolatory ?
Indeed, the question may be asked, has mainstream Islam strayed too far in its deification of Mohammed which, if we are honest, is the ultimate form of idolatory since Mohammed is not god.

I think

Wahhabism is out on its own. I know in Egypt the tradition was to worship local saints or nabis - there is even a Jewish nabi shrine in the Delta- from the Wahhabi point of view this is idolatry and has to be destroyed. They took out most of the stuff around Mecca as well.

And in Pakistan they fund madrassas to sell the Wahhabi cult whereas the local traditions are more Sufi.
Nusrat Fatih ali Khan came from a long tradition of sufi singers. This song is about worshipping a Hindu god

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGfY2N8I1TA

The Saudi influence is poisonous.   

[macdanger2]

So saying "tonight I feel like charlie coulibaly" is expressing support for the terrorists??

I'm still not sure who would be incited by such a comment???

I
A comedian that has been accused of being anti semetic in the past posts on facebook about a terrorist act against Jews.
Someone else in the past may have said tonight I feel like Billy wright after some innocent catholic got shot.
I can see why it might incite further strife. However in the 2nd scenario the Billyboy wouldn't have been arrested. In the interest of free speech of course.

Does his previous actions diminish his right to free speech? I would have thought that it's entirely irrelevant.

Incite further strife?? Sure you could say the very same thing about CH publishing more cartoons. Is that not the whole point of free speech?

Free speech does have its limitations. Previous form would be taken into account when charging anyone. Mr Bryson for example is about to find that out. Suggesting support for a murderer is not the same as satire against religion. There is a big difference.

How was his comment "suggesting support"? You must be having a laugh

What did his comment mean then? Did the French authorities completely misunderstand him ?

What I think his comment meant is irrelevant, you said it was suggesting support - how??

Who gets to decide what is and isn't covered by free speech??

For what it's worth, I think it was a stupid comment to make but in as much as the CH cartoonists should be protected by free speech, so should this guy

[haveaharp]

So saying "tonight I feel like charlie coulibaly" is expressing support for the terrorists??

I'm still not sure who would be incited by such a comment???

I
A comedian that has been accused of being anti semetic in the past posts on facebook about a terrorist act against Jews.
Someone else in the past may have said tonight I feel like Billy wright after some innocent catholic got shot.
I can see why it might incite further strife. However in the 2nd scenario the Billyboy wouldn't have been arrested. In the interest of free speech of course.

Does his previous actions diminish his right to free speech? I would have thought that it's entirely irrelevant.

Incite further strife?? Sure you could say the very same thing about CH publishing more cartoons. Is that not the whole point of free speech?

Free speech does have its limitations. Previous form would be taken into account when charging anyone. Mr Bryson for example is about to find that out. Suggesting support for a murderer is not the same as satire against religion. There is a big difference.

How was his comment "suggesting support"? You must be having a laugh

What did his comment mean then? Did the French authorities completely misunderstand him ?

What I think his comment meant is irrelevant, you said it was suggesting support - how??

Who gets to decide what is and isn't covered by free speech??

For what it's worth, I think it was a stupid comment to make but in as much as the CH cartoonists should be protected by free speech, so should this guy

What you think his comment meant is relevant seeing as you don't think it was expressing support for murder. "Tonight I feel like Coulibaly" has been interpreted by me an obviously the French authorities as expressing support for his actions. If it wasn't that then tell us what it was ?

Who gets to decide what is and isn't covered by free speech ? - The law. If people cannot decide for themselves what is morally acceptable to say or do then the law steps in.

The difference between Coulibaly and the cartoonists is that you have the choice to pick up a copy of Charlie Hedbo and be offended. The innocent people in the Kosher supermarket were not given that choice by Amedy Coulibaly.

[macdanger2]

What he said was "I am charlie coulibaly" not "I am coulibaly" - significant enough difference tbf.

I have no idea what he meant by it but I fail to see how it was incitement and I don't think it was offensive enough to warrant being arrested. It might have been in bad taste but I honestly can't believe how something like this can be censored at a time when people are being murdered for exercising their right to free speech

In the same way people who are offended by CH are free not to read it, people who don't follow this guy on facebook don't have to read his comments.

[seafoid]

ISIS looking for $200 million ransom for 2 Japanese hostages

If the money is paid they'll buy more weapons and kidnap more people.

What would Jesus do ?

[muppet]

ISIS looking for $200 million ransom for 2 Japanese hostages

If the money is paid they'll buy more weapons and kidnap more people.

What would Jesus do ?

Meet Fox Jesus:

[Keyser soze]

Well in fairness it was defending itself from a direct attack from its neighbour during this conflict.

Are u saying that Iran is not a democracy? I'm fairly sure it is, and in my opinion it is the most stable democracy in the region.

But I suppose their form of democracy is the wrong type because they've elected the wrong type of people in the past and it needs the good ol western powers to go in there and show them how it's done so they can clean their act up. This approach has worked really well in the past and is still working really well today 

So you think the elections in Iran are all legit and above board? No rigging? The result is the true expression of what the people want? 

Well now I never claimed any of those things but in answer to your questions:

No. Don't know but it seems likely. Who can tell.

Whats your point?

[Fiodoir Ard Mhacha]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33284937

Sadly, this happens again.

[easytiger95]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/26/tunisia-tourist-hotel-reportedly-attacked

27 dead so far - a very busy day for fundamentalists. You'd have to wonder just how coordinated these attacks are. Scary times. The proximity of failed states like Libya/Syria/ increasingly Egypt will make tourism to places like Tunisia impossible. The only possible upside is the revulsion these attacks will stir up within the local populations, as happened in Algeria in the 90s.

[armaghniac]

The tragedy is that the likes of Tunisia could become a model for other places, but this kind of thing wrecks tourism which banjaxes the economy.

[Clov]

I was chatting to a guy recently who had just got back from Tunisia. He was out there working for some ngo advising on security matters. He was relatively upbeat about the country going forward and seemed to think that the democratic institutions they had were strong enough to survive. On the other though they are completely reliant on tourism and even before today the hotel bookings were decimated for the coming summer.