Enda McNulty-Admits Armagh were failures!

[theticklemister]

Where the hell is Gerard Reid!!

[omaghjoe]

What about Phillip Loughran?
Seriously tho you dont have McKeever or either of the Mallons on there some of them bound to be on the reserves at least?

But you have made an excellent point: Tyrone were better individuals,won more and beat Armagh when it mattered most so WTF is McNulty on about, they had Phillip Loughran on their team FFS?

[muppet]

/quote]

He is a real winter player though. He goes missing when the ground hardens up.

[J70]

As a neutral in 03 there was never a time I believed that Armagh would beat Tyrone in the 03 final. They just weren't as good a team at that stage. There were decisions but I really don't think they mattered that much. Tyrone were just better that day and year.

05 was different. Had McGeeney stayed on the pitch etc etc but in 03 Tyrone were just better.

Tyrone had a drive in 2003 which Armagh struggled to match in the their second year. 2005 was truly a toss of the coin game, you win some and you lose some. As Tony Fearon says 2004 was simply inexcusable.

Yep I would pretty much agree with that. (Except the inexcusable part - Fermanagh were a decent team and could have got to the final though Armagh at their best should probably have put them away.)

Donegal should have beaten Fermanagh in 2004, wasting a ridiculous amount of chances (eg Roper from 14 yard line, in front of the posts, in the last minute of normal time ) and blowing it through ill discipline (two off, including Devenney,  who finally lost it after being pulled and dragged by McCloskey all game and, after the red, shoved McQuillan ).

Armagh should have beaten them for sure.

[armaghniac]

Yep I would pretty much agree with that. (Except the inexcusable part - Fermanagh were a decent team and could have got to the final though Armagh at their best should probably have put them away.)

Donegal should have beaten Fermanagh in 2004, wasting a ridiculous amount of chances (eg Roper from 14 yard line, in front of the posts, in the last minute of normal time ) and blowing it through ill discipline (two off, including Devenney,  who finally lost it after being pulled and dragged by McCloskey all game and, after the red, shoved McQuillan ).

Armagh should have beaten them for sure.

Armagh were expecting Donegal to beat Fermanagh which would have meant us playing Dublin I think, which Armagh would have been well up for. As you say, Donegal should have beaten Fermanagh, and Armagh had beaten Donegal by 13 points, so Armagh weren't quite expecting such a game from the lakesiders.

[Redhand Santa]

As I said Armagh were a good team full of very good players but they just weren't quite good enough at national level. For McNulty to say Kerry and Tyrone were weaker teams was crazy. All Ireland senior titles are the best reflection at a team. But if you look at the success of the players in other national competitions it would still suggest the Armagh players weren't quite good enough.

The older of the players on the successful Tyrone Armagh teams were playing underage from the early 90's on. If you compare the national titles of Tyrone and Armagh from 1990 to 2008 it reads something like this:

All Ireland Senior Titles - Tyrone 3 Armagh 1
National League Titles - Tyrone 2 Armagh 1
All Ireland u21 Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 1
All Ireland Minor Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 0 (Although they did go on to win one in 2009)

[armaghniac]

All Ireland Senior Titles - Tyrone 3 Armagh 1
National League Titles - Tyrone 2 Armagh 1
All Ireland u21 Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 1
All Ireland Minor Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 0 (Although they did go on to win one in 2009)

There isn't really any point in having Gaaboard as a forum, I suggest the mods just link the domain to a list of winners in games, as some people prefer this to reasoned discussion.

[red hander]

What's McNulty on... and can I have some?

[Redhand Santa]

All Ireland Senior Titles - Tyrone 3 Armagh 1
National League Titles - Tyrone 2 Armagh 1
All Ireland u21 Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 1
All Ireland Minor Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 0 (Although they did go on to win one in 2009)

There isn't really any point in having Gaaboard as a forum, I suggest the mods just link the domain to a list of winners in games, as some people prefer this to reasoned discussion.

I think its quite a relevant point. It shows that it wasn't only in the hunt for sam maguire that the Armagh players didn't get over the line at national level. There's only so much you can blame luck or not taking chances for a lack of success and McNulty's point just doesn't add up.

[BennyHarp]

All Ireland Senior Titles - Tyrone 3 Armagh 1
National League Titles - Tyrone 2 Armagh 1
All Ireland u21 Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 1
All Ireland Minor Titles - Tyrone 4 Armagh 0 (Although they did go on to win one in 2009)

There isn't really any point in having Gaaboard as a forum, I suggest the mods just link the domain to a list of winners in games, as some people prefer this to reasoned discussion.

Is it not fairly reasonable to use the fact of who actually won matches as a basis for a discussion over who is/was the better team? Enda claims that those Tyrone and Kerry teams, who continually beat his team on the biggest days, are weaker and I am struggling to find the reasoned points to back up his claim. For a well respected performance coach, I'm surprised he publicly displayed such irrational thinking.

[screenexile]

If your Granny had balls she'd be your Granda. I hate all this underachieved shit. People go on about it with Derry in the 90s. Bollocks. It's there for you to win if you want it enough and if you're good enough. Neither Armagh nor Derry were good enough to do it twice.

Can't see Tyrone being good enough in the near future to do it 4 times either!!

[rrhf]

Could end a have damaged his credibility by spouting this stuff.

[tbrick18]

If your Granny had balls she'd be your Granda. I hate all this underachieved shit. People go on about it with Derry in the 90s. Bollocks. It's there for you to win if you want it enough and if you're good enough. Neither Armagh nor Derry were good enough to do it twice.

Can't see Tyrone being good enough in the near future to do it 4 times either!!

+1

Though I'd say had the Derry team of the 90s had a back door route available this might be a different conversation.

The fact is, Armagh had a sprinking of top players in Marsden, McConville, McDonald, McGeeney....but their real threat was in their new defensive strategy and, shall we say "robustness" of their approach to the game which made them as successful as they were. It was a clever approach to make up for the lack of top quality players by developing physically imposing team with a set of tactics that got them results.
The downside for them was that outside of Ulster this wasn't as effective. Wide open pitches like Croke park left them a little more exposed and made it more difficult for them to impose their game on the opposition. No-one in Ulster at that point had really come to terms with the blanket which also goes some way towards understanding why they were successful in Ulster but not as successful on the national front.

In short, McNulty talking sh*te.

[Canalman]

If your Granny had balls she'd be your Granda. I hate all this underachieved shit. People go on about it with Derry in the 90s. Bollocks. It's there for you to win if you want it enough and if you're good enough. Neither Armagh nor Derry were good enough to do it twice.

Can't see Tyrone being good enough in the near future to do it 4 times either!!

+1

Though I'd say had the Derry team of the 90s had a back door route available this might be a different conversation.

The fact is, Armagh had a sprinking of top players in Marsden, McConville, McDonald, McGeeney....but their real threat was in their new defensive strategy and, shall we say "robustness" of their approach to the game which made them as successful as they were. It was a clever approach to make up for the lack of top quality players by developing physically imposing team with a set of tactics that got them results.
The downside for them was that outside of Ulster this wasn't as effective. Wide open pitches like Croke park left them a little more exposed and made it more difficult for them to impose their game on the opposition. No-one in Ulster at that point had really come to terms with the blanket which also goes some way towards understanding why they were successful in Ulster but not as successful on the national front.

In short, McNulty talking sh*te.

Derry could easily not have won in 1993. Scraped by Dublin and had some decisions/ incidents go their way big time in the final if I remember correctly.

The VAST majority of the greatest footballers to ever play the game never won an AI medal.

[orangeman]

Could end a have damaged his credibility by spouting this stuff.

It's ok - his job is to make you believe.