Tyrone Retirements

[sensethetone]

In a previous life I would have been working at many League games that o'Neill would have been involved in - i was directing games for Setanta and I remember particularly the League opener in 2007 and the 125th anniversary match in 2009 where we were actually scouring replays in the OB trucks trying to figure out how he scored from the angles he shot from - I remember thinking that I'd seen Graham Geraghty score some amazing points against Dublin, but this guy did it far more regularly and a lot more ease. Also remember him in a couple of Parnell Park league matches circa 2003 -2006 - tough as nails and they were some hard games.

Lethal, absolutely lethal, and any team at any time would have wanted him. Injury may have curtailed his medal haul (though even that is brilliant as it stands) but the memories he left will last a lot longer. Hope he and Penrose enjoy honourable retirement.

Some of the scores he got in the 2007 and 2009 Dublin games were unreal.  As mentioned, he could score of either foot from both endlines, the number of times he put the ball over from acute angles was unreal.  My favourite memory of him was when he came on in the 2003 final and sealed the victory with the two insurance points.  The last one came at a stage when I was on edge and I always remember thinking it looked so obvious that he was leading the Armagh defender to believe he was shooting on his right (as if the man was unaware that he was left footed and thought he had him covered on his right), I was so relieved when I saw his take it to his left side as I knew he wouldn't miss and that was that.

I've always wondered why didn't he start in the 2003 final?

In 2003 he was at University in England I think for most of the year I think.

heard at the time he was still travelling back and forth in 2004. Remember the league game againist Mayo in Omagh in 2005 everyone commenting on how fit was because he didn't have to travel for university.

[GJL]

A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles

O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.

In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.

2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I  remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.

Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.

Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.

I completely agree there.  I remember playing against him in a challenge match back in circa 1999/2000 when he was playing with the Tyrone u21's.  They played us in Cross and he gave us the runaround the whole day and embarrassed us.  It was great as it was a real grounding experience for us at the time!

He had everything in terms of pure ability, ball winning, he had lovely balance and was probably pound for pound the most important player of the Tyrone team that won the AIs.  If he had been injury free he would have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game and definitely better than Canavan.

Not so sure about that. How many Tyrone supporters would take a 25 year old O'Neill back now over a 25 year old Canavan? I know who I'd take. No slight on O'Neill who was at the top level in the game but Canavan was 'definitely better'.

[Sidney]

A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.

I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.

[orangeman]

A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.

I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.

Can we list the all time greats ?

How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.

[brokencrossbar1]

A very good player but would not be seen as a top top player mind you they are only h a hand ful and evey one would have their favorites
only people i would have would be (leaving out all the mayo names) its a bit kerry centic but they semm to have won about half the All Ireland since i was born
canavan
Maurice fitzgerald
Gooch
Jack o'shea
Trevor Giles

O Neill was a superior player to Giles. It's pointless bringing Jacko into the equation as he's a midfielder. You cannot grade players when they don't play in the same area of the pitch.

In my view O Neill is second only to Fitzgerald and Matt Connor (who I can't split) in the last 25 years. I've never seen another forward kick the sort of scores outside those two that o Neill can kick.

2005 replay versus dublin he kicked a point off his right foot from the right corner with two dublin lads hanging out of him. I  remember just shaking my head thinking this guy just operates a different orbit.

Or the 2011 league game in croker when he kicked about 1-10. he kicked a point off his left foot when directly parallel to the endline. If Cristiano Ronaldo did it they'd still be showing replays of it. But because he did it so often it was just taken for granted.

Very good player? Charlie Redmond was a very good player. O Neill was a genius- there is a difference.

I completely agree there.  I remember playing against him in a challenge match back in circa 1999/2000 when he was playing with the Tyrone u21's.  They played us in Cross and he gave us the runaround the whole day and embarrassed us.  It was great as it was a real grounding experience for us at the time!

He had everything in terms of pure ability, ball winning, he had lovely balance and was probably pound for pound the most important player of the Tyrone team that won the AIs.  If he had been injury free he would have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game and definitely better than Canavan.

Not so sure about that. How many Tyrone supporters would take a 25 year old O'Neill back now over a 25 year old Canavan? I know who I'd take. No slight on O'Neill who was at the top level in the game but Canavan was 'definitely better'.

Canavan may have done it over a longer period of time but for pure ability I think I think when both were at their best that O'Neill had a slight edge.  Sure it's only an opinion anyway.

[Sidney]

A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.

I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.

Can we list the all time greats ?

How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.

I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.

The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.

Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.

Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.

Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.

Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.

[The Trap]

Best Tyrone forward line ever:

Dooher  E McKenna    S Cavanagh
O'Neill    F McGuigan    Canavan

Thats 6 all time greats in Tyrone........two from the same club!

[clarshack]

his much maligned club colleague mr dooher for me was a more valuable player for tyrone not as aesthetic on the eye but what a man.

would agree with this mate. brian dooher was definitely more valuable to Tyrone and also Clann Na nGael imo.

[easytiger95]

I understand a little of the hesitancy in some posters to give him unqualified praise. I think O'Neill played at his best when he had good players playing well around him, like in 2005 - it seemed to give him a platform to shine. Whereas Canavan, Maurice fitz, Matt connor etc had the ability to take on defences almost singlehandedly.

whether or not he reached the absolute pantheon (and given the point is debatable shows how good a career he actually had) he has left some amazing memories. Interesting that Declan O'Sullivan has just gone as well - I'd rank the two as roughly the same spot on the ET All Time Great List.

[orangeman]

I understand a little of the hesitancy in some posters to give him unqualified praise. I think O'Neill played at his best when he had good players playing well around him, like in 2005 - it seemed to give him a platform to shine. Whereas Canavan, Maurice fitz, Matt connor etc had the ability to take on defences almost singlehandedly.

whether or not he reached the absolute pantheon (and given the point is debatable shows how good a career he actually had) he has left some amazing memories. Interesting that Declan O'Sullivan has just gone as well - I'd rank the two as roughly the same spot on the ET All Time Great List.

O'Neill was compared earlier to Padraig Joyce. Now he's on a par with Dec O'Sullivan. I'd say he'd be chuffed to be talked about in the same breath as those two legends.

[INDIANA]

A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.

I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.

Can we list the all time greats ?

How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.

I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.

The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.

Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.

Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.

Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.

Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.

This is crazy stuff. o Neill was superior to all of Tompkins, Declan o Sullivan and o Rourke and Joyce too in my view. I couldn't adequately describe how superior to some of the above he was
And to say linden  was below cooper, Canavan et Al. You'd want to wash your mouth out

At worst their equal. Linden is one of the greatest players to ever play Gaelic football.
Col

To

[seafoid]

A fine career and a top player by any standards but didn't make the absolute most of the talent he had.

I'd have him around the same level as Padraig Joyce - both tremendously talented and both were arguably the best forwards in the game for a brief period but not consistent enough over a long enough period of time to be considered true all-time greats like Canavan, Cooper or Fitzgerald - merely very, very good players.

Can we list the all time greats ?

How many would there be roughly ? I'd say O'Neill would be happy enough to be the Padraig Joyce bracket who was a class act.

I guess what "all-time" great means is subjective depending on what county you're from. A player like, say, Mickey Quinn would be considered an all-time great in Leitrim but not nationally. Similarly with, say Declan Browne, Mattie Forde or Kevin O'Brien.

The list of true all-time great forwards on a national level would be short enough.

Since I started following the game in 1987, Cooper , Canavan and Fitzgerald (take your pick as to who's best but there's nothing between any of them) have been the three best forwards I've seen.

Slightly below that level you'd be talking about the likes of Mickey Linden, Bernard Flynn, Colm O'Rourke, Declan O'Sullivan etc.

Slightly below that again you'd have Ciaran McDonald, Padraig Joyce, Ja Fallon, Stevie McDonnell, Larry Tompkins etc. Diarmuid Connolly, the Brogans and James O'Donoghue from today's game would be around this level. O'Neill would probably fit in here too. Subjective as to whether you consider this list to be true all-time greats on a national level, I guess.

Giles, Donnellan, McConville etc would be the next level down.

You would need Goldman Sachs to create an index, Sidney, otherwise nobody can agree.
Linden is up there with the best of them anyway.

[easytiger95]

No need to get het up Indy - O'Neill was certainly one of the greatest players I've ever seen in the flesh, but it is no stain on his character if he never quite equaled mid 90s Canavan, early 90s Linden or 97 Maurice Fitz. Not many ever will.

I certainly think skill wise he was the equal of all of the above - I'd just love to have seen him put together three injury free seasons and see what could have grown from there - certainly maybe another All ireland for Tyrone.

[Main Street]

I think I have already written a couple of O'Neill retirement tributes on this board. It must be for real this time.
He oozed his own characteristic brand of class, skill and grace, a holy trinity of football greatness and was a memorable delight to watch when he turned it on.

[Fuzzman]

Have to say I've enjoyed reading this thread as so many who I respect your opinions certainly hold my club mates in such high esteem. I remember Dooher more as a young lad and even as an U12 you could tell this kid was going places.
He would try as hard in lesser significant club games as he would in AI finals.
Stevie used to come to his uncle's house next door to us and from the age of 3 he always had a ball with him.
Thanks for the great memories lads and all your effort and toil
For such a small rural club to produce an AI player of the year, a two time AI winning captain, Paddy (1986) and Danny Ball, Patsy Kerlin and Cathal Blee(U21 keeper), we did alright I suppose.