Colm O'Rourke vs. the GPA

[Zulu]

I have no problem whatso ever with some of the work the GPA does for county and ex county players with scholarships and assiantance in getting work etc.
I am also aware that to roll that out across ALL players just isnt feasible, but i do feel they could stiill represent the views of the broader group of club players and lobby for thier interests.
Things like player burnout (for ALL players not just IC ones) and the fixtures mess should be things that the GPA could working on with the GAA and representing the players interests in.
To me, that would go along way in proving their worth to the standard GAA player rather than the elitist, jobs for the boys organisation that they are now percieved as.

I wouldn't disagree with that at all but it's the county boards and the GAA who should be doing that and club committees who should be forcing it through. You can't help someone who doesn't want help and apparently the ordinary club doesn't want help.

[BennyHarp]

I think the GPA pays for itself, yes it gets money off the GAA but that is money generated by the IC game. It also fundraises itself and provides elite players with a valuable support structure. I don't think a GPA representing all players is realistic, there's just too many players and far too many diverse issues for anything other than a massive highly funded players body to be able to cope. I don't understand why people can't accept that the GPA are doing a valuable job for an important section of our membership while looking for other ways to help other sections of the membership. When I read some of the criticism of the GPA here it strikes me as something akin to berating a guy who gives thousands to cancer research for not doing the same for the save the Whales campaign!

Does the club fixtures debacle have no impact on the county scene and vice versa? They aren't mutually exclusive, so I'd expect the GPA to at least have a voice on the issue. I'm sure if the whales were dying of cancer that guy would be getting credit for helping research the cure.

[five points]

I think the GPA pays for itself,

Not if they have to fundraise in New York.

[Zulu]

And not surprising you can't see the wood from the trees with the comments above.

Please enlighten me.


Your example is about as logical as as giving out about a plumbers union not demanding better pay for nurses! The GPA don't represent club players, now maybe they should but then they would need massive resources and funding and are you willing to give them that? On top of that, what do you expect them to do about fixtures in 32 separate constituencies who all have different competition formats, challenges and priorities? They haven't even agitated for a change to the daft IC season because they can't get consensus amongst the fairly small group of IC players we have, what chance could they have of getting consensus amongst thousand upon thousands of players?? It's patently daft to criticise them for not dealing with club fixtures and that is why this is GPA bashing and nothing more.

By the way what is wrong with helping out former IC players, should we abandon them once they can no longer play? Perish the thought we help players who have given so much on the field with a bit of guidance/support for life off it. Far better we give out about the GPA not doing the job others should be doing rather than acknowledging the good things they are doing.

Zulu - I know a lad who plays hurling. He is on the Monaghan Hurling Panel, why - because he will turn up. Plain and simple. He doesn't get playing for the club senior hurling team. They won an Ulster Junior Hurling title last weekend and he never seen a minute of action in the Ulster campaign. He got a bit of action in the county run in, as they had it fairly handy but he didn't play in the final.

By definition though he is a county hurler.

Say he wants to go to college to do a masters - is he entitled to a scholarship? Will the GPA pay his course fees? Is he entitled to this?

I think what a lot are getting at is, is the GPA a level playing field? Is every county play automatically a member or do they have to register as one? Either way, is every "member" then entitled to the same benefits and supports? Or is this available at the judgement of the people in charge?

Further more, how is the people in charge selected? I've no idea if at the AGM there is elections or what happens.

I'm sure that they have supports in place for everyone who approaches them and that seems very positive and working well.
I'm also sure that they will support players with profiles who are in demand by various commercial operations and they'll ensure that the players are properly rewarded and not exploited. Again, no problem there, certain players will attract media attention and commercial deals, its the nature of marketing.

However, the two areas that seem to be in doubt are Player welfare and these benefits. Is it a level playing field when it comes to certain benefits. If Jason Sherlock is entitled to a scholarship then who decided he was and how is it operated? If its a clear and transparent process, fair enough. The fear is its an old pals club, much like the irish politican system that we 've all known to hate.

On player welfare, we never seem to hear much on them on the club situation. I don't expect them to represent every club player but Inter county players are club players too and they can't be benefiting from the fixtures situation. Maybe as Dessie says they involved but Eugene McGee who is with the FRC doesn't seem to think so.

Again, I'd have no issue with that Bingo. I don't know the ins and outs of the GPA and I doubt very much they are a flawless organisation but as you point out, there are IC players who are only that in name. However, that is a flaw of the GAA structure where you can technically achieve elite status by being in a weak county, not be being a genuine elite footballer/hurler.

I defend the GPA here against some of the dafter criticism only. I'm not a supporter of them as such and have had no dealings with them personally but I think it's quite clear that they can do no right by some and that needs to be challenged.

[Zulu]

I think the GPA pays for itself,

Not if they have to fundraise in New York.

That's how you pay for yourself. That's like saying a club isn't paying for itself because it runs a club lotto.

Does the club fixtures debacle have no impact on the county scene and vice versa? They aren't mutually exclusive, so I'd expect the GPA to at least have a voice on the issue. I'm sure if the whales were dying of cancer that guy would be getting credit for helping research the cure.

You're right of course Benny but they can't push for something without a consensus of what that is and they have asked their membership for what they'd like to see and have got 101 different responses. We've had the discussion here and we can't get a consensus either. Just because it isn't in the papers doesn't mean the GPA aren't agitating for change either.

[BennyHarp]

I think the GPA pays for itself,

Not if they have to fundraise in New York.

That's how you pay for yourself. That's like saying a club isn't paying for itself because it runs a club lotto.

Does the club fixtures debacle have no impact on the county scene and vice versa? They aren't mutually exclusive, so I'd expect the GPA to at least have a voice on the issue. I'm sure if the whales were dying of cancer that guy would be getting credit for helping research the cure.

You're right of course Benny but they can't push for something without a consensus of what that is and they have asked their membership for what they'd like to see and have got 101 different responses. We've had the discussion here and we can't get a consensus either. Just because it isn't in the papers doesn't mean the GPA aren't agitating for change either.

As a representative of players it could come up with proposals based on consultation with players groups arranged in each of the counties. This may be a pain to organise but it's not impossible. The proposals could be debated and voted on by all players and used as a basis to lobby for change. It's what happens in trade unions all over the country and not impossible if there is a will to do it. I don't have a problem with the GPA either by the way and agree that county players deserve some representation but I would suggest that an active GPA on the club issue would do them massive favours amongst the rank and file.

[Zulu]

As would I, the cracked season we have is my biggest bug bearer in the GAA but I just don't think they are the body that should be pushing this. Why clubs aren't demanding it is beyond me but they aren't. In fact they are doing the opposite as we see in Donegal. Tough decisions are required but I don't see how you could get the support for those decisions when some many diverse opinions would have to be factored in. What you'd end up with is another version of the mess we have because you'd have to modify it any proposal so much to garner enough support that it would be worthless. The lads giving out about the GPA here are far more at fault than the GPA are for this mess, has anybody brought a motion to their club committee looking for changes to their county club championships?

[lynchbhoy]

surely the object of this was to assist current intercounty players who cant get jobs or who need educational assistance to secure employment and keep them at home so they can play for their county.

Surely it doesn't have to stop there, does it? I don't know when or how you stop being a member of the GPA but I have no issue with the GPA helping out ex-IC players get ahead in life. I'd have no problem if they did that for all GAA players but do all GAA players apply themselves to their club as much as they should and who will pay for thousands of players going to university or getting business start up advice? It isn't a perfect system by any means but I don't think there is much merit in criticising something because it isn't perfect.

If its a burden, then move on, someone else will take your place.

So we should demand a huge amount but give nothing back in return and if they don't like it piss off?

if it was a never ending pot of money - id agree with you.
however the ex county players are the same as club players.

if there was transparency then we would know more, but I suspect that there is a finite (if not small) pool of money to draw from here
- so Id like to know what the award metrics are.
Club players are prob doing as much as ex intercounty players (isn't an ex intercounty player then just a club player!!)



by the way- we don't demand anything of the players. Who among us here wouldn't do what it takes if it meant playing on the top teams. Especially wen only a handful of teams are ever going to win anything - and the Carlow's, wicklows, Fermanagh's, waterfords, leitrims etc of this world -their players train damn hard and know they have little chance of success.
A few good players dropped out of intercounty because they had work or family commitments.
Our players are amateur. that's the way it is. if we could afford to go pro, that would change. we cant afford it though.

[BennyHarp]

As would I, the cracked season we have is my biggest bug bearer in the GAA but I just don't think they are the body that should be pushing this. Why clubs aren't demanding it is beyond me but they aren't. In fact they are doing the opposite as we see in Donegal. Tough decisions are required but I don't see how you could get the support for those decisions when some many diverse opinions would have to be factored in. What you'd end up with is another version of the mess we have because you'd have to modify it any proposal so much to garner enough support that it would be worthless. The lads giving out about the GPA here are far more at fault than the GPA are for this mess, has anybody brought a motion to their club committee looking for changes to their county club championships?

I think it is an issue that the GPA could / should be addressing. Often it is for the benefit of the county player that the club season is fractured and it's the club player that suffers, as do those county players that don't get much game time. Coordinating all these players interests is not easy within a county so having a forum for debate on the issue would, in my opinion, be welcomed by players and a strong voice on their behalf would be very powerful in pushing through change. Club players feel completely ignored on this issue and the average club player often runs a mile from meetings and committees so often his voice isn't heard. Anyway, you will know yourself that club motions at county conventions are never easy to even get on the agenda, never mind getting them passed. This is an issue that needs to be organised centrally by the GAA administration and input from the GPA would in my opinion be a very welcome addition to the debate.

[Zulu]

Completely agree Benny. I would also like to see the GPA involved in this I was just reacting to how people were using a stick, that should have been long broken off other bodies backs, to beat the GPA.

Lynchbhoy, again I would agree with complete transparency but as you've acknowledged yourself that isn't very forthcoming from the GAA either. I'm sure the level of spending detail for the GPA matches what we know about the GAA's finances. In saying that, I don't think the level of transparency your looking for exists in any body so I would be slow to criticise the GPA on that score.

The GPA should, of course, be accountable and people can and should ask tough questions of them and any other GAA funded body but it should be fair and reasoned, that isn't always the case with the GPA and certainly not always on this forum.

[lynchbhoy]

Completely agree Benny. I would also like to see the GPA involved in this I was just reacting to how people were using a stick, that should have been long broken off other bodies backs, to beat the GPA.

Lynchbhoy, again I would agree with complete transparency but as you've acknowledged yourself that isn't very forthcoming from the GAA either. I'm sure the level of spending detail for the GPA matches what we know about the GAA's finances. In saying that, I don't think the level of transparency your looking for exists in any body so I would be slow to criticise the GPA on that score.

The GPA should, of course, be accountable and people can and should ask tough questions of them and any other GAA funded body but it should be fair and reasoned, that isn't always the case with the GPA and certainly not always on this forum.

that's exactly what I mean. But the GPA is now part of the GAA and just because the GAA are not transparent, is no excuse for the GPA not to be.
Both need to become more transparent and accountable.
We need to find out what the award criteria for scholarships was and will be, who received what and why. Salaries in gpa and GAA need to be known as well I might add.

[johnneycool]

surely the object of this was to assist current intercounty players who cant get jobs or who need educational assistance to secure employment and keep them at home so they can play for their county.

Surely it doesn't have to stop there, does it? I don't know when or how you stop being a member of the GPA but I have no issue with the GPA helping out ex-IC players get ahead in life. I'd have no problem if they did that for all GAA players but do all GAA players apply themselves to their club as much as they should and who will pay for thousands of players going to university or getting business start up advice? It isn't a perfect system by any means but I don't think there is much merit in criticising something because it isn't perfect.

If its a burden, then move on, someone else will take your place.

So we should demand a huge amount but give nothing back in return and if they don't like it piss off?

Who's demanding a huge amount?

You, me, everyone. Look at the reaction to the Tipp lads having a few drinks earlier on in the year. The players and coaching staff push it on too but you can't say that we don't all do it as well. I've yet to read a post here where a guy says 'Let Donegal, Dublin or Kilkenny do what they do, our lads are entitled to a few pints and a fry up of a Sunday and I'll travel the country supporting them as they get their asses handed to them from teams better prepared and more tactically aware. I'm just happy we have young men still willing to train once a week and take it handy on the beer during the summer'.

I think we're now into the grey area of amateur/professional or at least semi-professional preparation of teams and where is that ultimately going to end for the association.
In my mind its something the GAA will soon have to rule on in order to keep a level playing field as possible and prevent some county boards getting themselves into even more debt in order to compete with counties with infinitely more resources and hence advantages that go with it.
Its nothing new for as long as I can remember the bigger counties were able to 'look after' their players, wee jobs as company reps and what not, but the type of preparation some teams are getting in to really is beyond the pale for amateur sportsmen and we're already seeing the amount of commitment needed is ruling very talented individuals out of intercounty sport as they simply do not have the time to commit.
Top level intercounty GAA is becoming the preserve of students and teachers as fas as I can see.

Why would the GPA not be railing against the level of commitment being asked of their amateur members?
Answer, because a year or two down the line they'll be requesting a slice of the pie due to this level of commitment as the grant won't be enough, Dessie and the GPA's end game IMO.

As for the Tipp lads going on the lash, well in my mind the new high profile of GAA sports stars means they treated in the same way as professional soccer and rugby players, yes there's an up side to this, but the down side is this bollox about a couple of players having a few drinks and those criticising them need a boot up the hole as no doubt they haven't remotely made anywhere near as many sacrifices in their life to play hurling for Tipp as these lads.
It also fills a few column inches for the journo's to make a living off.

[rosnarun]

i think a lot of the problem is in the name of the GPA
They are clearly a body for inter-county play and should be called something like
Intercounty Gaelic players association(IGPA)
that would solve a lot of confusion

[johnneycool]

i think a lot of the problem is in the name of the GPA
They are clearly a body for inter-county play and should be called something like
Intercounty Gaelic players association(IGPA)
that would solve a lot of confusion

The early literature put out by the GPA is explicit in that it was for all Gaelic players, not just intercounty ones, I think I still have some of their stuff at home as I was one of the few who actually paid some beer tokens into them at the start, some address in Drumcondra IIRC.

[Jinxy]

Quinns?