The should-we-or-shouldn't-we have a border poll thread

[deiseach]

England will subsidise Northern Ireland indefinitely. I heard my wife and our neighbour expressing relief about the referendum result even though both see Scotland as a nation of parasites. They just can't bear the thought of further erosion of the empire and are content to pay the price to keep it. Please note that the question of whether Scotland is in reality a nation of parasites is not the point. The point is that they both see it that way yet don't want Scotland to leave. Much the same is true of Northern Ireland.

[Applesisapples]

emmm lets see

[armaghniac]

England will subsidise Northern Ireland indefinitely. I heard my wife and our neighbour expressing relief about the referendum result even though both see Scotland as a nation of parasites. They just can't bear the thought of further erosion of the empire and are content to pay the price to keep it. Please note that the question of whether Scotland is in reality a nation of parasites is not the point. The point is that they both see it that way yet don't want Scotland to leave. Much the same is true of Northern Ireland.

I'm not sure that NI is seen in the same light as Scotland. But even if it were, the higher level of subsidy to NI will come under pressure from Scotland and Wales and the north of England/Cornwall etc will be looking at the help given these places. More attention will come to these issues, which is a good thing.

[seafoid]

England will subsidise Northern Ireland indefinitely. I heard my wife and our neighbour expressing relief about the referendum result even though both see Scotland as a nation of parasites. They just can't bear the thought of further erosion of the empire and are content to pay the price to keep it. Please note that the question of whether Scotland is in reality a nation of parasites is not the point. The point is that they both see it that way yet don't want Scotland to leave. Much the same is true of Northern Ireland.

What if London starts asking for more money, Deiseach ? I am not sure English people are that pushed about the Unionists any more.

[J70]

The really relevant question here is why the British Government let the whole of Scotland decide by means of a vote,whether or not they wish to maintain the union,but has never allowed the whole of Ireland the same basic democratic right,and worse than that,no politician North or South has pointed out this anomaly.

What anomaly? Only the six counties are a part of the UK, and thus equivalent to the Scottish. How would the other 26 vote to maintain the union when we are not part of it? We all agreed to leave it up to yourselves in the wee six when we ratified the good friday agreement.

[Rossfan]

There is a definite opening for the party that sets out an economically viable strategy to sell the general public the feasibility of the reunification of the country. I think Sinn Fein have begun this strategy a good number of years ago and if they can attract fresh thinking strategist and gain power in the south in the next decade .....

SF's advert for their candidate in the Ros/S Laythrum By election tells us that SF is opposed to Austerity, Cuts, Water Chargse and Property Tax. Next sentence tells us they will improve Public Services.

Sad thing is up to 20% of the Population in the 26 Cos believe this hocus pocus 

[yellowcard]

There is a definite opening for the party that sets out an economically viable strategy to sell the general public the feasibility of the reunification of the country. I think Sinn Fein have begun this strategy a good number of years ago and if they can attract fresh thinking strategist and gain power in the south in the next decade .....

SF's advert for their candidate in the Ros/S Laythrum By election tells us that SF is opposed to Austerity, Cuts, Water Chargse and Property Tax. Next sentence tells us they will improve Public Services.

Sad thing is up to 20% of the Population in the 26 Cos believe this hocus pocus 

I agree that up until recently their economic policies were either non existent or didn't stack up. However that has begun to change as there is a dawning realisation that there is the possibility of forming part of the Irish government, if not in the next election then certainly the next but one. They have a lot of educated young people joining the party at the moment as they look to capitalise on a FF performance that has been abysmal in opposition and a present government that has very little goodwill either. Most likely the real push for power won't be completely viable until Adams steps down but it will happen sooner or later.

[Rossfan]

There is a definite opening for the party that sets out an economically viable strategy to sell the general public the feasibility of the reunification of the country. I think Sinn Fein have begun this strategy a good number of years ago and if they can attract fresh thinking strategist and gain power in the south in the next decade .....

SF's advert for their candidate in the Ros/S Laythrum By election tells us that SF is opposed to Austerity, Cuts, Water Chargse and Property Tax. Next sentence tells us they will improve Public Services.

Sad thing is up to 20% of the Population in the 26 Cos believe this hocus pocus 

I agree that up until recently their economic policies were either non existent or didn't stack up. However that has begun to change

Obviously not in roscommon/Sth Laythrum  as that ad is in last Wekk's Ros Herald for the By election of 10th October.

[Maguire01]

Let's have a border poll, if only to kick start the process of having one every 7 years, as per the GFA.  At least, every 7 years we will see a progress report or otherwise as to where we stand in relation to the demand for a reunited Ireland.

If only people would actually read the GFA.

[Maguire01]

The Scottish Referendum and the promises made by the Brits has changed forever the shape of the Union. I mentioned in another thread an article last week in the Irish News by Newton Emerson illustrated how a UI would stack up financially. Anyone who believes for a moment that English tax payers are going to continue to pay for the public sector in NI needs their head examined. All the jobs that were created here in the troubles because we were a basket case will not be funded indefinitely. The out working of the granting of further powers to Scotland will mean that English MP's only will get to decide on these matters. The financial subvention will also be reduced as the Barnett formula is rejigged.

As for our Nationalist Parties, of which there are 3 including FF they need to start working out what an AI will look like. How it will accomodate a minority Unionist population, how it will be funded, how it will retain links with GB and reflect Britishness which is important to a sizeable number on this Island. A poll is necessary to give them a base from which to work. But it will be difficult to get a Unionist Secretary of State to call one. And that does not even touch on the work required to get people in the South to say yes.

Good post. There is a definite opening for the party that sets out an economically viable strategy to sell the general public the feasibility of the reunification of the country. I think Sinn Fein have begun this strategy a good number of years ago and if they can attract fresh thinking strategist and gain power in the south in the next decade I reckon the referendum will take place within the next 15-20 years.

But they're keeping it to themselves?

[Applesisapples]

The big laugh about the whole thing is Unionists bleating about the partition of the island of Britain whilst demanding the continued partition of Ireland.

[magpie seanie]

There is a definite opening for the party that sets out an economically viable strategy to sell the general public the feasibility of the reunification of the country. I think Sinn Fein have begun this strategy a good number of years ago and if they can attract fresh thinking strategist and gain power in the south in the next decade .....

SF's advert for their candidate in the Ros/S Laythrum By election tells us that SF is opposed to Austerity, Cuts, Water Chargse and Property Tax. Next sentence tells us they will improve Public Services.

Sad thing is up to 20% of the Population in the 26 Cos believe this hocus pocus 

Whose lies do you believe so?

On the issue you brought up - unless you believe that public services are being run at optimum efficiency then of course they can be improved without injection of additional cash. However, you hate SF so just jump on anything to say "be scared of them, they'll ruin us" - even though we're in a perpetual cycle of ruination thanks to FF/FG/LAB as it is.

Your post is a typical example of group think that screws us up all the time in the 26 counties. You can't do that/that won't work....maybe it won't but by fcuk what FF/FG/LAB have done over the past 50 years has definitely not worked so why stick with them? Definition of stupidity. I'm far from a SF supporter by the way. It half irritates me that they seem to be the main party who stand up for ordinary people.

[Orior]

The big laugh about the whole thing is Unionists bleating about the partition of the island of Britain whilst demanding the continued partition of Ireland.

Exactly. Which means that both the Yes and No arguments in the Scottish debate can be re-used for Irish re-unification.

No - dont break up Britain, as we are better together
Yes - the english are a shower and we are better independant

[magpie seanie]

The vast majority of politicians on this island have no vision for or belief in a united Ireland so there's little point in discussing it.

[Applesisapples]

The vast majority of politicians on this island have no vision for or belief in a united Ireland so there's little point in discussing it.

True there is no vision but it needs discussing. I am a nationalist, and would like to see reunification. At present in a border poll I would probably abstain, I couldn't bring my self to vote no. I would abstain on the basis that any reunification must sit comfortably with all shades of loyalism, note loyalism not unionism. It is from a disaffected loyalist rump that we would have trouble. Nationalist must debate the issue and settle on a plan in the first instance before we can convince others. Unfortunately the pygmies in the SDLP are to busy looking after their own interests to even begin a debate with the Shinners. As for the Shinners they need to realise that a 32 County Socialist Republic is not going to happen, they will need to move more to the middle ground politically and economically. Some credible policies would help.