Donegal (2011-2014) v Tyrone (2003-2008) v Armagh (1999-2006)

[trileacman]

I'd still rate Harte ahead of McGuinness but if Donegal beat Kerry I might consider him ahead. Harte bamboozled 2 great forces of 21st century football, Kerry and Armagh but he had alot better players than McGuinness had. To compare McLoone to McGuigan or Thompson to Jordan is simply ridiculous. Interestingly those teams all had poor enough keepers. Don't get me started on McFadden either. Tyrone and Armagh used to eat him for breakfast in the pre-McGuinness days and he's in poor enough form this year too, he would be behind Mulligan in the pecking order in that Tyrone team never mind SON or Canavan.

Also the Armagh side being talked about here only won the 1 All Ireland (and were extremely fortunate to beat Dublin on route) and simply weren't good enough to truly match the Tyrone team that won 3. If Donegal beat Kerry in 3 weeks I would say that they are on that Tyrone side's level.

Another complete fallacy. They were a great side who we robbed out of an All-Ireland in '05. Had they been 1% luckier that day and stole the victory from us they would've been the team to kick on and win 3 AI. We played them 3 times that year in championship football alone, all in Croke park, and the tally was a win each with 1 draw, they'd have beaten us on aggregate if you looked at it that way or knocked us out altogether if the system didn't allow a team you've already proved you could beat back into the championship.


To be fair lads if you want a discussion on these teams you would be better having an idea about Ulster football instead of just being as  southern gobshite lecturing from the chip on your shoulder.

[Mike Sheehy]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Not really. Down are more calculating. Donegal are very natural. If they hit form you won't stop them.

You're talking though your hole. You haven't a notion about Ulster football.

Fixed that for you.

why do you lads always resort to abuse when someone questions your assertions of superiority ?

You are always denigrating Kerry yet act with petulance when you receive a response.

No wonder we saw you off in the end.

[Mike Sheehy]

Not really. Down are more calculating. Donegal are very natural. If they hit form you won't stop them.

You really do spout some unadulterated shite, Donegal's 'system' is quite possibly the most rigid, refined and evolved we've ever seen from a group of 15 players, and good luck to them.

A Tyrone team that won All-Irelands the whole way up from Minor through U21 (multiple) to Senior (multiple) were, according to you, not naturally talented.

Enough said.

You haven't addressed the fact that it takes time for a county to adapt its traditional approach. We are good but even we need time to adjust.

[JP]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

Tyrone had a lot of talented footballers. Not so much Armagh. You boys were always more into the sly, late hits than free flowing attacking football. I'm not going to pretend I know more about Ulster football than you, but I do know for a fact that the 00s Tyrone and the current Donegal players are more talented than your famous Armagh lads. Just as I know that the current Dublin team are a lot better than the Dublin team you squeaked by in 02.

The sly late hits? come off it. You make it sound like we fluked our way to an AI with poor dirty players within a system. That is very demeaning. I take it you didn't watch Armagh play much back then? there was a hairs breath between armagh and Tyrone from 2000 - 2006. Both extremely talented sides in the top 3 in Ireland along with a great Kerry Team. I can understand people ranking this Donegal team and Tyrone above the Armagh team, I probably would myself for different reasons. Tyrone for their achievements and Donegal for being a tactical masterclass. But it's your complete disrespect for the obvious talents of that Armagh team that irkes me.

[Mike Sheehy]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

That is the key sentence. Once Donegal matched Armagh/Tyrones application they streaked ahead. Donegal have already equalled Armaghs success and have done it against better more prepared teams.

[trileacman]

Tyrone had a lot of talented footballers. Not so much Armagh. You boys were always more into the sly, late hits than free flowing attacking football. I'm not going to pretend I know more about Ulster football than you, but I do know for a fact that the 00s Tyrone and the current Donegal players are more talented than your famous Armagh lads. Just as I know that the current Dublin team are a lot better than the Dublin team you squeaked by in 02.

Please stop, you wouldn't know shite from clay.

McFadden is a poorer FF than Clarke or McDonnell. Murphy is better than both though. Kernan was a better wing back than Thompson or McBreaty. Gallagher used to regularly struggle against the Armagh MF back in the day so it's hard to argue that he would be better than McGrane. McNulty and Mallon were excellent CB who would be at least considered as good as the McGee's. Geezer and Lacey about the same. McConville skillwise was better than any donegal half-forward to argue otherwise is the ravings of a lunatic.

[trileacman]

No wonder we saw you off in the end.

Sorry when was this? Did you lads ever beat Tyrone on the way to an AI?

Ah no, you've always failed to best the top Ulster team around be it Armagh, Tyrone or Donegal. A piecemeal victory for ya's here or there over a fallen team but never had the brains to beat the smarter team. I look forward to seeing Donegal teach ya a thing or 2 about football in 2014 in a few weeks.

[Mike Sheehy]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

Tyrone had a lot of talented footballers. Not so much Armagh. You boys were always more into the sly, late hits than free flowing attacking football. I'm not going to pretend I know more about Ulster football than you, but I do know for a fact that the 00s Tyrone and the current Donegal players are more talented than your famous Armagh lads. Just as I know that the current Dublin team are a lot better than the Dublin team you squeaked by in 02.

The sly late hits? come off it. You make it sound like we fluked our way to an AI with poor dirty players within a system. That is very demeaning. I take it you didn't watch Armagh play much back then? there was a hairs breath between armagh and Tyrone from 2000 - 2006. Both extremely talented sides in the top 3 in Ireland along with a great Kerry Team. I can understand people ranking this Donegal team and Tyrone above the Armagh team, I probably would myself for different reasons. Tyrone for their achievements and Donegal for being a tactical masterclass. But it's your complete disrespect for the obvious talents of that Armagh team that irkes me.

I wouldn't go as far as SouthDublinBro but you have to admit that Armagh were training at a level, specifically weight training, that gave them an advantage that other teams did not enjoy. All credit to them, of course, but it harks back to my point about their success not down to being about natural talent and managemen nous like it is with the present Donegal side.

[JP]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

That is the key sentence. Once Donegal matched Armagh/Tyrones application they streaked ahead. Donegal have already equalled Armagh's success and have done it against better more prepared teams.

How come all this natural talent in Donegal has seen them win only 8 Ulster titles throughout history. Only Derry and Fermanagh have won less. Donegal emerged with a quality team at a time when Tyrone were in decline and Armagh's team was long gone. That's why they have gone well ahead. This will change in the years ahead and another team will emerge to be topdog. Teams in the 2000's were well aware what type of football Armagh and Tyrone played, they prepared for it but couldn't beat it, much like how Dublin didn't beat Donegal.

[Mike Sheehy]

No wonder we saw you off in the end.

Sorry when was this? Did you lads ever beat Tyrone on the way to an AI?

Ah no, you've always failed to best the top Ulster team around be it Armagh, Tyrone or Donegal. A piecemeal victory for ya's here or there over a fallen team but never had the brains to beat the smarter team. I look forward to seeing Donegal teach ya a thing or 2 about football in 2014 in a few weeks.

see, there you go. You are supposedly a proud Tyrone man with a deadly rivalry with Donegal and Armagh yet you claim superiority on the back of past or future Armagh and Donegal achievements.

Any Kerryman gloating off the back of a Cork victory would be shot on sight.

You Ulster lads are cowards. Always getting others to fight your battles.

[BennyCake]

It would easy to get dragged into all sorts on a thread like this.


For what it's worth, the following players would make the core of the team. Everyone else is available for selection.

1. Durcan
2.
3.
4. Lacey
5.
6. McGeeney
7. Gormley
8. McGrane
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. McGuigan
12. McConville
13. Canavan
14. Murphy
15. McDonnell

Which means no place for Stevie O'Neill, let alone McFadden.

I'd think Jordan, McMenamin, Enda McNulty, McGlynn and Aaron Kernan would be in contention for the missing places. There's no natural fullback among them though apart from Bellew and McGee, so McGee might get in.

Is that Paul McGrane or PJ McGrane?

[Mike Sheehy]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

That is the key sentence. Once Donegal matched Armagh/Tyrones application they streaked ahead. Donegal have already equalled Armagh's success and have done it against better more prepared teams.

How come all this natural talent in Donegal has seen them win only 8 Ulster titles throughout history. Only Derry and Fermanagh have won less. Donegal emerged with a quality team at a time when Tyrone were in decline and Armagh's team was long gone. That's why they have gone well ahead. This will change in the years ahead and another team will emerge to be topdog. Teams in the 2000's were well aware what type of football Armagh and Tyrone played, they prepared for it but couldn't beat it, much like how Dublin didn't beat Donegal.

because we all know the story about the gifted footballer that fecked away his talent on booze etc.

Well, Donegal are the gifted county that fecked away their talent on booze etc . Jim McGuinness has put them on the straight and narrow and hence their success. Tyrone have been led by a teetotaller for the last 11 years or so and even they have no answer to the reformed Donegal.

[BennyHarp]

Who are the gifted players on the Donegal team that fecked away their talent on booze? That's some simplification of the situation there Mike.

[Mike Sheehy]

Tyrone had a lot of talented footballers. Not so much Armagh. You boys were always more into the sly, late hits than free flowing attacking football. I'm not going to pretend I know more about Ulster football than you, but I do know for a fact that the 00s Tyrone and the current Donegal players are more talented than your famous Armagh lads. Just as I know that the current Dublin team are a lot better than the Dublin team you squeaked by in 02.

Please stop, you wouldn't know shite from clay.

McFadden is a poorer FF than Clarke or McDonnell. Murphy is better than both though. Kernan was a better wing back than Thompson or McBreaty. Gallagher used to regularly struggle against the Armagh MF back in the day so it's hard to argue that he would be better than McGrane. McNulty and Mallon were excellent CB who would be at least considered as good as the McGee's. Geezer and Lacey about the same. McConville skillwise was better than any donegal half-forward to argue otherwise is the ravings of a lunatic.

What did Clarke or McDonnell ever do apart from 2002 ? No-one cares about Ulster slugfests. In terms of getting to All-Ireland semi-finals and finals and winning them this Donegal team beats them hands down. Same with Tyrone when it comes to consecutive semis/finals.

[Mike Sheehy]

Who are the gifted players on the Donegal team that fecked away their talent on booze? That's some simplification of the situation there Mike.

Well obviously we've never heard of them. That is part and parcel of fecking your talent away on booze !