Down Club Hurling & Football

[bcarrier]

You know it's true though.

Even if the individual talent was there (which it might be), pride, passion, experience and understanding wouldn't be. You can't sling together a group of random players (with random levels of interest and commitment), who are used to Division 3 pace and tackling, and expect them to give teams like Mayobridge, Kilcoo, Burren or Bryansford a game.

Amalgamation works well enough in Kerry. Some of the groupings have long histories but there is a degree of flexibility...teams opt in and out and even change regions for the " county" championship.   If by some miracle ASK were to win the Down championship I presume they are ineligible for Ulster.

[ardtole]

I didnt hear of any ask amalgamation. If the county board were discussing it, id imagine it would be in relation to next season. It would probably take a year for people to get their heads round it ,I could picture Marty Bang Sharvin and Sherlock Brady from Kilclief on the phone to Hugo Duncan right now condemning such proposals in total outrage. I dont think it would sit to well with any of the Sharvins  or Dee King or anyone in Kilclief for that matter. Ive only ever heard one person associated with Kilclief suggest an amalgamation before and he is origionally from Belfast so he probably doesnt even get a vote down there.

[DownFanatic]

My understanding is that the 16 teams in the SFC will be put in to a hat and the team that is drawn out will play ASK Lecale in a Preliminary Round game with the winner progressing to the 1st Round proper.

[DownFanatic]

The proposal of amalgamated Division 3 and 4 clubs entering the Down SFC seemed to get good backing at Convention.
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Its a terrible idea in my eyes but one which could come about in the not too distant future.
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I think the logic behind it is that almost half our clubs rarely provide county players at any level.With the notable exception of the likes of Dundrum with Paul McC,half the GAA playing population is untapped.There are quality athletes and footballers in all clubs,but their lack of exposure to top class football,may be one reason why very few step up to county standard.Such a system appears to work well in Kerry,where they always seem to unearth players from junior clubs.It would have to be carefully structured to ensure fairness-especially to clubs who are capable of fielding on their own at senior level.Imagine,for example, if Kilcoo with a population of a few hundred were to be beaten in the 1st round by an amalgamation of Bredagh/Carryduff/St.Pauls with a population of 100,000.Wouldn't be easy to get a fair system,but at least this debate gets people thinking about ways of improving our county player pool.The other potential  positive for junior clubs is that it would lessen the chances of senior clubs allegedly poaching talented Junior club players,with the carrot of senior football.
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In my opinion some people have a very distorted view of Division's 3 and 4. Last year was the worst standard I have seen in Division 3 in a decade whilst Division 4 is little more than a pub league.

There are four players on James McCartan's McKenna Cup panel from Divisions 3 and 4. Declan Alder is in as a keeper while Kevy Anderson, Mick Magee and Paul McComiskey are three of the outfield selections. Without a shadow of a doubt the latter three are the best three players in the bottom two Divisions. One thing they have in common is that they all have county pedigree. All three of them have played County Minor and U-21 while two of them have participated at 3rd level.

Now you tell me, how one possibly two games with a team of gather ups in the Down SFC is going to unearth county standard players from the bottom two Divisions? Answer - it's not! A couple of games a year doesn't condition a player for SFC standard football. Playing in the top tier over a number of years might.

Also, say for instance Dundrum and St Johns put in a joint team for the SFC. Not only would both these teams be training for their own Championships at the same time but the hard cold fact is that a Dundrum man wouldn't piss on a St Johns man if he was on fire and vice versa. This would be the same all over the county if neighbouring clubs joined up.

Again, there are more problems associated with such a venture. Where should the team train? Who would take the team? What jerseys should the teams wear? + the various different arguments that would arise in regard to the selection of teams etc. Most clubs in the bottom two Divisions don't have their house in order regarding structures and the like and the last thing they need to be concentrating on is some sham of a representational team. They should be focussing on improving themselves. Ultimately, what would winning a game in the Down SFC with an amalgamated team mean to the players involved? In my view - f**k all! Any player worth his salt should be giving his all to his club then his county.

If a player in the lower tiers is good enough for county football he will be recognised. There is no doubt about that. Bar Peter Withnell, players just don't spring up overnight. There is not some conspiracy out there by the county selectors to overlook players in the bottom two Divisions. The players mentioned earlier who have been picked for the 2010 county team stick out like a sore thumb in Division 3. They are head and shoulders above the standard and this is obvious in most of the games they play in over the year.

There is a far bigger gap between Division 1 and Division 3 than people think. It is basically light and day. I believe that an amalgamated team would struggle against most opposition in the SFC.

Again, going ahead with this venture won't stop the bigger clubs attempting to poach players from the lower echelons. The likes of Loughinisland, who have had a flagrant disregard for the transfer rules in our county for the past thirty years, will continue to poach players. It's in their fabric and your suggestion that this will cease has no merit.

Kerry and Cork practice the Championship format you suggest. Thats only two counties out of 32. The reason the other 30 don't use it is because it isnt a good format. Your yearning for change seems to be based on the fact that you want to see more Junior players on the county team. Why do Junior club players have to be on county teams? What right over Division 1 and 2 players do they have to be represented on a county team? You seem to make a special case for them.

As I said before. If you are good enough, you are good enough. The players that have been picked for the Down team this year are there because they are the best players in the lower ranks. They star week in week out. When a player performs to this standard on a weekly basis he will make a county team. Not when he maybe scores 2-05 in a one off SFC game for a team of gather ups.

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This was a debate from 2009 regarding amalgamted teams in the Down SFC.

[ardtole]

Downfanatic, as a neutral looking on, and as someone who would have a good insight into all 3 teams, if they were to get their act together, train collectively for the next 3 months etc, how do you think they would get on. Mick Magee, Liam Mullan, Rosie Sloan, Ricky Kerr and possibly his cousin Neil Teggart if he was interested would be a very decent forward line.

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

What a wonderful oportunity for someone to be able to have a kick at boyos from Ardglass, Kilclief and Saul all during the one match, in fairness though the Ardglass lads will probably be starting fights with their new teammates anyway.

[ardtole]

I dont think the ardglass boys will be fighting with their new teammates joe, if no1 is picking the team their will only be 2 of them playing.

[knockitdown]

Drumgath 0-17 Ballymartin 2-16

[DownFanatic]

Downfanatic, as a neutral looking on, and as someone who would have a good insight into all 3 teams, if they were to get their act together, train collectively for the next 3 months etc, how do you think they would get on. Mick Magee, Liam Mullan, Rosie Sloan, Ricky Kerr and possibly his cousin Neil Teggart if he was interested would be a very decent forward line.

Ardtole, as stated previously I am not a fan of this venture. However, I will be interested in seeing how it pans out.

I would guess that most of this team would be Kilclief based. Fintan Conway, Ciaran Sloan and Ricky Kerr would be leading the charge amongst others. Mick Magee, Liam Mullan, Stephen Deegans and Neil Taggart would be strong Ardglass additions while Adam King, Nathan Keenan, Aodhan Brady and the two Arnolds would provide the strongest Saul contingent.

On paper this looks all rosy but I would still fancy the cohesion of a seasoned SFC team to come out on top nine times out of ten. However, if the draw was favourable Id say beating the likes of the Tullylish, Warrenpoint, Downpatrick or Loughinisland would not be beyond the realms of possibility.

I firmly believe that the arguments against this venture outweigh the arguments for it. It is experimental and who knows it may start a revolution in terms of our football championships. However, the teams that are in the SFC are there on merit in my opinion and I feel that Ardglass, Saul and Kilclief don't deserve to be there.

[lucan]

why is packie downey off the down panel. In every game so far he has roasted the backs when given a chance. Ask annaclone; banbridge; loughinisland; and six points from play against ballymartin today.

[13aside]

without doubt Downey has a talent in the forward division and to use an old line 'he's hard to hurt' but a six point rerurn from play in the modern game is a good positive statement,perhaps his opposition's team managers thus far might have an opinion-and his and other possibile panelists could come into the picture-after all the door is never ever completely closed!!

[NP 76]

Downey has been about the Down panel but has never made an impact at county level . Its ok to score 6 pts in a club game but you need to be producing it when it counts . He obvivously doesnt do enough at training and when he gets the chance with the county

[Mid Down Gael]

ACFL Division 1

Kilcoo 1-9 Saval 1-16

Saval outstanding today where Stephen Kearney gave an brilliant display in midfield scoring 0-5 from play.

Bryansford beat An Riocht by 2 earlier today.

[No1]

Carryduff beat Kilclief by 3.

[dundrumite]

Darragh beat Dundrum handy. More hungry team that wanted it more won, simple as.