Down Club Hurling & Football

[whitegoodman]

Wobbler u made some very good points there particular regarding the all ireland final tactics and the varying of mcveighs kickouts. 

However to suggest that either king or colgen could do the same job as dan at number 3 doesnt add up imo.  Last year colgen wasnt deemed quick enough to play CHB and now ur talking about playing him further back against invariably quicker and more dangerous opposition.  He couldnt mark a man out the field last year and I think it would be a train wreck to play at 3.  A lovely footballer with a lovely pass but if he is going to play it has to be as the spare man in front of the full back line as per the majority of last year.  If not, dont play him in my opinion.

Dan has been doing a good job at 3 and i would leave him alone there but a possible alternative would be declan rooney who would provide height, athletism, some sort of turn of pace and experience in the position having played there under ross.

Agree with u on the mark, u want to see it go watch rugby or aussie rules.  To apply it to gaelic football takes away from the game

[Leo]

McVeigh (7 out of 10) Generally solid but lack of variation in kivckouts is an issue
Criticising an Allstar Goalkeeper,who more than did enough sat night! Not Mcveighs fault if the midfield isn't up to it!

J Clarke (5) A poor mark for someone who scored 1-1 but Benny made the goal and while he started well John just looked too slow for most of the match.
I don't seem to understand posters problems with JC, 1-1 is a great return for a forward that "lacks pace" coulter may have made th goal, but did it not have to be finished?
   
A Brannigan (7) Doubts about him at this level but did OK and had to foul his man which led to booking as the house was down
7? this a joke, consistent fouling led to many frees in dangerous areas, too rash in th tackle, not up to county standard

Only getting back to this post now but when I saw this I said "Ah, someone from the Kingdom" - then I noticed your club afiliation in the title. Kilkeel was always a good wee town for wearing the blinkers. Oh, and the anti-Kilcoo bias as well. Good night Ned.

[Leo]

Interesting point whitegoodman - "but a possible alternative would be declan rooney who would provide height, athletism, some sort of turn of pace and experience in the position having played there under ross" -

I'd take Rooney in that position now even though he was not convincing under Ross's term. He's a much bigger player now, quite under-rated in my view, and has most attributes for this position. I'd be happy enough with McKeran in the RHB position as long as the management take him in hand a bit  - so that leaves CHB and the hope that Doyle is on a genuine comeback. If not, Garvey would be a solid no.6 with Duffin or Howard on the other wing. We would then have good competition for places in midfield, maybe even to the extent that we could play Ambrose from the 40.

[whitegoodman]

I too think that mckernan could be moved to the wing but he needs to be told what his primary responsibility is, defend first and attack when the chance comes along.  Garvey seems to be able to know when to do this and although I see McKernan as a better natural footballer, id currently have Garvey ahead of him.

I thought Rooney was quietly impressive last year.  I think his natural position is CHB, he did a great job on Pearce O'Neill there in the final and thats were id play him.  He was also very impressive there during his first year under ross in the league before being moved back to full back to accommadate Brendan Grant at CHB in the championship.  I feel that when King gets fitter he will be an ideal foil for a fit attacking ambrose with fitzpatrick putting pressure on both of them which would allow u to keep Dan at full back.  A spine of Gordon, Rooney, Ambrose, Clarke, Coulter has height, athletism and class written all over it.

[PAULD123]

I don't agree WhiteGoodman, King or Colgan are easily fast enough to cover a guy over a limited space. Full forwards have less room to move in than half forwards. If your really worried about your full back being drawn out then you play the zonal system where the full back only follows so far and then hangs back to defend his area.  The forward then runs into congestion. Down used this system exactly in the 2005 all-ireland minor final with Garvey as full back. It totally stopped Mayo getting anywhere near shooting within 25 yards of goal area.

But in General how far does a full forward sprint? 10-15 yards or so from the edge of the square? A half forward may be moving 20-30 yards in a run (Marty runs up to 50 at a time). So just cause you can't track a man at HB doesn't mean you can't track one at FB. King has no problem tracking people in midfield.

Midfield, Full Forward and Full back are interchangeable positions and many many top teams have moved players around these positions. Connor Deegan won two All-Irelands in both positions. But I would also be happy with Rooney tried in there.

[No hoper]

Any word on how the under 21s are getting on. Have they a chance off getting far this season.

[whitegoodman]

I don't agree WhiteGoodman, King or Colgan are easily fast enough to cover a guy over a limited space. Full forwards have less room to move in than half forwards. If your really worried about your full back being drawn out then you play the zonal system where the full back only follows so far and then hangs back to defend his area.  The forward then runs into congestion. Down used this system exactly in the 2005 all-ireland minor final with Garvey as full back. It totally stopped Mayo getting anywhere near shooting within 25 yards of goal area.

But in General how far does a full forward sprint? 10-15 yards or so from the edge of the square? A half forward may be moving 20-30 yards in a run (Marty runs up to 50 at a time). So just cause you can't track a man at HB doesn't mean you can't track one at FB. King has no problem tracking people in midfield.

Midfield, Full Forward and Full back are interchangeable positions and many many top teams have moved players around these positions. Connor Deegan won two All-Irelands in both positions. But I would also be happy with Rooney tried in there.

Connor Deegan, Cormac McAnallan, Justy McMahon and to a lessor extent Dan Gordon and possibly Declan Rooney have the athletism and versatility to move from midfield to full back but i dont see this in either King or Colgen.

The idea that u dont need some sort of pace in the full back line is just plain wrong in my eyes.

If u would be happy seeing king or colgen line up against donaghy, o'neill or mcdonald or clarke for that matter then fair enough !!!

[spiritof91and94]

would king not be a better option in full forward  - all this talk of him in full back is a waste of time, it wont happen.. think the way he caused havoc in the 2010 county final on the edge of the square should tell you all about his full forward potential. Our number 14 is more of a concern than any other position on the team and has been for a while.

[whitegoodman]

Completly agree with that.  In fact i thought it was the moving of king from full forward out to midfield which lost the ford the final.  He would be an absolute handful for any full back to deal with, even if it were for 15/20 mins.

I think CHB is our most concern at the minute, Ronan Murtagh has done more than enough to be given a shot at full foward for the coming league games.

[SHEEDY]

midfield is an obvious concern but so is the inabilaty of our half forwards and half backs to win any break balls. our full forward line was completly starved of possesion in 2nd half against mayo. the moving of benny to midfield also robbed our forward of the 1 player who could win his own ball. martin clarkes comments in his newspaper column saying he dreamed of being back in australia when he seen the size of the crowd, the state of the pitch etc etc moan moan also has people thinking is his heart really in it. what do you expect marty its febuary in mayo.

[PAULD123]

The Marty Clarke column has been taken out of context. How many people read the original text?

The article was about being tired and frustrated at the end of a disappointing result. Asked do you miss Australia, Clarke was saying that at that moment he did, but by the time he'd calmed down and was back in Newry he didn't. Overall it was a positive article about actually deeply wanting to be here playing for Down. He was saying that despite all these things that someone could obviously say in support of him being in Oz he was in the end happy to be here. The comment that he wished he was over there is intended to show immediate frustration and how immediate frustration eventually fades. The final line is that when a boy in Newry asked the same question his answer was now "No I don't".

As for questioning his commitment. Anyone who saw him running the length of the pitch to tackle then racing back up to start an immediate attack in the McKenna cup, let alone the league would have no reason to question his commitment.

[western exile]

...l
. martin clarkes comments in his newspaper column saying he dreamed of being back in australia when he seen the size of the crowd, the state of the pitch etc etc moan moan also has people thinking is his heart really in it. what do you expect marty its febuary in mayo.

  did you even read the article in full?  Or see the context it was written in?
I am amazed at the negative spin you have chosen to put on it 

[SHEEDY]

...l
. martin clarkes comments in his newspaper column saying he dreamed of being back in australia when he seen the size of the crowd, the state of the pitch etc etc moan moan also has people thinking is his heart really in it. what do you expect marty its febuary in mayo.

  did you even read the article in full?  Or see the context it was written in?
I am amazed at the negative spin you have chosen to put on it 

i did read the article in full several times to see did i miss something but i have to say im still disappointed with some of the comments. marty clarke is a brilliant footballer, who i hope to see in a down jersey for many years to come, but i dont see the need to criticise another counties facilities or the size of the crowd. as for the comments being said in the heat of the moment after the match, they appeared in his own column 3 DAYS after the match. mayo is a county that has suffered more than most from the recession and not every down fan can afford to travel across the country on a saturday.

[western exile]

...l
. martin clarkes comments in his newspaper column saying he dreamed of being back in australia when he seen the size of the crowd, the state of the pitch etc etc moan moan also has people thinking is his heart really in it. what do you expect marty its febuary in mayo.

  did you even read the article in full?  Or see the context it was written in?
I am amazed at the negative spin you have chosen to put on it 

i did read the article in full several times to see did i miss something but i have to say im still disappointed with some of the comments. marty clarke is a brilliant footballer, who i hope to see in a down jersey for many years to come, but i dont see the need to criticise another counties facilities or the size of the crowd. as for the comments being said in the heat of the moment after the match, they appeared in his own column 3 DAYS after the match. mayo is a county that has suffered more than most from the recession and not every down fan can afford to travel across the country on a saturday.

So you still don't get it    That is okay. I suppose we all see what we want to see.
Your post is quite ironic considering the footer to all your posts: "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum"  (nothing but the best is good enough). 

[SHEEDY]

...l
. martin clarkes comments in his newspaper column saying he dreamed of being back in australia when he seen the size of the crowd, the state of the pitch etc etc moan moan also has people thinking is his heart really in it. what do you expect marty its febuary in mayo.

  did you even read the article in full?  Or see the context it was written in?
I am amazed at the negative spin you have chosen to put on it 

i did read the article in full several times to see did i miss something but i have to say im still disappointed with some of the comments. marty clarke is a brilliant footballer, who i hope to see in a down jersey for many years to come, but i dont see the need to criticise another counties facilities or the size of the crowd. as for the comments being said in the heat of the moment after the match, they appeared in his own column 3 DAYS after the match. mayo is a county that has suffered more than most from the recession and not every down fan can afford to travel across the country on a saturday.

So you still don't get it    That is okay. I suppose we all see what we want to see.
Your post is quite ironic considering the footer to all your posts: "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum"  (nothing but the best is good enough). 

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. everyone wants the best but i dont see the need to be disrepectful. wether its intended or not.