Down Club Hurling & Football

[Mid Down Gael]

The Trials are a PR exercise & nothing else.....
Unless you have a Div 4 or Div 3 player roasting a Div 1 player then in truth they are just there to make up the numbers.
Every year the same arguments persist about who should be on it & who shouldn't. I'm sure every County is the same. What people have to realise is that in football there is a lot of politics involved. Burrens contingent last year was greatly helped by the fact that James McCartan was an ex-player from that club. Playing for Burren helped certain fellas make that squad when perhaps otherwise they wouldn't have been anywhere near it. This isn't a go at Burren, if you've 2 players of similar ability & 1 plays for Kilcoo & other for Tullylish you can bet your last penny who will be the one on it.

I said the exact same last year regarding Anton McArdle, Paul Devlin etc... they should be nowhere near the panel until they warrant a place on it...end of! There is too much bullshit about "blooding them in" or "being one for the future" In my opinion its a cop out for the bigger clubs to justify having boys on the panel who in some cases dint even start regular for their club.
At 18 - 21 years of age these boys need to be testing themselves regularly against Senior teams in Div 1-4 not making up the numbers in training matches at Pairc Esler.
By all means if there is a young player who is one of the best players in his division then I'm all for him being on the County Panel but players on it have to warrant their place. There are too many passengers (even on last years panel) who are happy enough to remain just that.
Goldenyears your argument regarding "player gossip" being a key factor is also quite naive....boys will look after their mates & friends. Of course there will be a bit of banter between panelists about who is playing well but to suggest that if a guy is playing well he will definitely get his chance is not always the case.
Fellas like Colm Kearney (Bryansford) Brian Cole (Rostrevor) Jason Brown (Hilltown) Gareth Johnson (Tullylish) John Boyle (Warrenpoint) and others had all been playing well for their respective clubs last year but couldn't make a McKenna Cup Squad which in reality consisted of quite a few who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.
Until a fairer system of selection is developed the same pointless arguments will crop up every year. A suggestion might be Selectors actually going to watch games outside Div 1 & seeing what else is on offer, who's playing well & who is consistent.

Fantastic post and you are 100 per cent right in all that your saying. I seen quite a lot in division 1 this year, games where McCartan and Johnston where at and i seen many other players playing better than some of those on the trial list. So i agree politics does play a big part too.

Reastically though the starting 15 from the all ireland this year plus the 5 subs that where used on the day as well as Ambrose, Alder, Colgan, Carr and Sexton are the top 25 and are the mainstays of next years squad IMO. They will have 5 to add to this which will likely be Anderson, Gary McArdle, Duffin, Mark Doran and Luke Howard to make up the 30. They may give others a game or two in McKenna cup but its hard to see any standout candidates that could turn into major county players. The under 21s should be left there until they are finished in spring time with the form players being brought in at that stage. Ohagan is the obvious under 21 that could make the break through but i dont see the sence in playing him in the slog that is January at senior level when the under 21s will be preparing for their campaign.

[BarryBreensBandage]

I'm not so sure Mourne Rover.
Finishing top of the league might prove you're better than Division III standard. But it's on winning the play-offs - when the best teams in your division have full squads and are chomping at the bit - that means you're reading for Division II.

You have just contradicted yourself - if finishing top of the league makes you better than Division III standard, what does it make you?

Too many people in Down football place too much of an emphasis on league placings. .

Hardly. This team finished first. A place in the playoff final is a less than paltry reward for a team that has shown the effort, dedication and consistency to finish top.

I would reconfigure the end of season play-offs a little so that the team which finished higher is always at home (regardless of whether it's roun-robin, semi, or final). This would be a suitable reward for a consistent season and might push teams a bit harder during the end of league dead rubbers.
But being good at beating Division III standard teams does not a Division II team make.

I'm not against play-offs, but the team finishing top should automatically go up. Not only rewarding the most consistent team in the league, it will also mean that another team will have the chance to compete for promotion.

I know our club has been involved in a few of these situations over the years but i do not see why even in the current system the first placed team goes up. then  Second and third play off and the winner plays the winner of the relegation battle from the division above. If the lower division team win then they deserve to be up a division.

Personally i think that there was better teams this year in division 3 than at the bottom two thirds of division 2. There really isnt much between them.

I think our system has improved gradually over the years and certainly we remain the envy of most other counties regarding our club structures.From next year onwards 1st placed team goes up.2nd and 3rd then playoff.This is an improvement on the old playoffs when midtable teams could end up in bottom 4,or top 4.The result being that every league game is like a final, and the championship becomes diluted.I disagree with your suggestion re playing teams from league above,as quite conceivably promotion contenders could become unstuck via injuries etc in a once-off game.The league should be just that.Promotion should be the reward for teams showing they are a cut above their opponents in that league and deserve a crack at a higher level.The 2nd/3rd playoffs are necessary to prevent discrimination against a club having to play matches without county men.Taking 4th position out of the playoff places is fair enough,as if a team is not capable of making top 3 (even without county men for much of the season),they are unlikely to be able to consistently compete in the league above(when they still be without their county men).
We got to an All-Ireland final,and yet our internal club games were all completed by mid november...hats off to Sean Rooney,for his excellent work on this!
Next year the system will be even better,with the amendments to the playoffs.Personally I would prefer only 3 divisions in Down,and an extended championship structure,with flexibility in the system to allow club football to proceed,when the county teams get a good run-but given the relative success of the current system,we are unlikely to see change.

Well said

[BarryBreensBandage]

The Trials are a PR exercise & nothing else.....
Unless you have a Div 4 or Div 3 player roasting a Div 1 player then in truth they are just there to make up the numbers.
Every year the same arguments persist about who should be on it & who shouldn't. I'm sure every County is the same. What people have to realise is that in football there is a lot of politics involved. Burrens contingent last year was greatly helped by the fact that James McCartan was an ex-player from that club. Playing for Burren helped certain fellas make that squad when perhaps otherwise they wouldn't have been anywhere near it. This isn't a go at Burren, if you've 2 players of similar ability & 1 plays for Kilcoo & other for Tullylish you can bet your last penny who will be the one on it.

I said the exact same last year regarding Anton McArdle, Paul Devlin etc... they should be nowhere near the panel until they warrant a place on it...end of! There is too much bullshit about "blooding them in" or "being one for the future" In my opinion its a cop out for the bigger clubs to justify having boys on the panel who in some cases dint even start regular for their club.
At 18 - 21 years of age these boys need to be testing themselves regularly against Senior teams in Div 1-4 not making up the numbers in training matches at Pairc Esler.
By all means if there is a young player who is one of the best players in his division then I'm all for him being on the County Panel but players on it have to warrant their place. There are too many passengers (even on last years panel) who are happy enough to remain just that.
Goldenyears your argument regarding "player gossip" being a key factor is also quite naive....boys will look after their mates & friends. Of course there will be a bit of banter between panelists about who is playing well but to suggest that if a guy is playing well he will definitely get his chance is not always the case.
Fellas like Colm Kearney (Bryansford) Brian Cole (Rostrevor) Jason Brown (Hilltown) Gareth Johnson (Tullylish) John Boyle (Warrenpoint) and others had all been playing well for their respective clubs last year but couldn't make a McKenna Cup Squad which in reality consisted of quite a few who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.
Until a fairer system of selection is developed the same pointless arguments will crop up every year. A suggestion might be Selectors actually going to watch games outside Div 1 & seeing what else is on offer, who's playing well & who is consistent.

Another great post

[BarryBreensBandage]

The Trials are a PR exercise & nothing else.....
Unless you have a Div 4 or Div 3 player roasting a Div 1 player then in truth they are just there to make up the numbers.
Every year the same arguments persist about who should be on it & who shouldn't. I'm sure every County is the same. What people have to realise is that in football there is a lot of politics involved. Burrens contingent last year was greatly helped by the fact that James McCartan was an ex-player from that club. Playing for Burren helped certain fellas make that squad when perhaps otherwise they wouldn't have been anywhere near it. This isn't a go at Burren, if you've 2 players of similar ability & 1 plays for Kilcoo & other for Tullylish you can bet your last penny who will be the one on it.

I said the exact same last year regarding Anton McArdle, Paul Devlin etc... they should be nowhere near the panel until they warrant a place on it...end of! There is too much bullshit about "blooding them in" or "being one for the future" In my opinion its a cop out for the bigger clubs to justify having boys on the panel who in some cases dint even start regular for their club.
At 18 - 21 years of age these boys need to be testing themselves regularly against Senior teams in Div 1-4 not making up the numbers in training matches at Pairc Esler.
By all means if there is a young player who is one of the best players in his division then I'm all for him being on the County Panel but players on it have to warrant their place. There are too many passengers (even on last years panel) who are happy enough to remain just that.
Goldenyears your argument regarding "player gossip" being a key factor is also quite naive....boys will look after their mates & friends. Of course there will be a bit of banter between panelists about who is playing well but to suggest that if a guy is playing well he will definitely get his chance is not always the case.
Fellas like Colm Kearney (Bryansford) Brian Cole (Rostrevor) Jason Brown (Hilltown) Gareth Johnson (Tullylish) John Boyle (Warrenpoint) and others had all been playing well for their respective clubs last year but couldn't make a McKenna Cup Squad which in reality consisted of quite a few who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.
Until a fairer system of selection is developed the same pointless arguments will crop up every year. A suggestion might be Selectors actually going to watch games outside Div 1 & seeing what else is on offer, who's playing well & who is consistent.

Fantastic post and you are 100 per cent right in all that your saying. I seen quite a lot in division 1 this year, games where McCartan and Johnston where at and i seen many other players playing better than some of those on the trial list. So i agree politics does play a big part too.

Reastically though the starting 15 from the all ireland this year plus the 5 subs that where used on the day as well as Ambrose, Alder, Colgan, Carr and Sexton are the top 25 and are the mainstays of next years squad IMO. They will have 5 to add to this which will likely be Anderson, Gary McArdle, Duffin, Mark Doran and Luke Howard to make up the 30. They may give others a game or two in McKenna cup but its hard to see any standout candidates that could turn into major county players. The under 21s should be left there until they are finished in spring time with the form players being brought in at that stage. Ohagan is the obvious under 21 that could make the break through but i dont see the sence in playing him in the slog that is January at senior level when the under 21s will be preparing for their campaign.

Good observations, but can anyone tell me (as our club are in Div 3) have we any class players coming through that are big?

Down and the guys mentioned are a very small team, and, I don't think a county team can carry more than two small forwards.

One guy I have seen in the past couple of years who is big and strong and looks like he has it is John McAreavey from Tullylish - always thought he should have been given a go.

[knockitdown]

The Trials are a PR exercise & nothing else.....
Unless you have a Div 4 or Div 3 player roasting a Div 1 player then in truth they are just there to make up the numbers.
Every year the same arguments persist about who should be on it & who shouldn't. I'm sure every County is the same. What people have to realise is that in football there is a lot of politics involved. Burrens contingent last year was greatly helped by the fact that James McCartan was an ex-player from that club. Playing for Burren helped certain fellas make that squad when perhaps otherwise they wouldn't have been anywhere near it. This isn't a go at Burren, if you've 2 players of similar ability & 1 plays for Kilcoo & other for Tullylish you can bet your last penny who will be the one on it.

I said the exact same last year regarding Anton McArdle, Paul Devlin etc... they should be nowhere near the panel until they warrant a place on it...end of! There is too much bullshit about "blooding them in" or "being one for the future" In my opinion its a cop out for the bigger clubs to justify having boys on the panel who in some cases dint even start regular for their club.
At 18 - 21 years of age these boys need to be testing themselves regularly against Senior teams in Div 1-4 not making up the numbers in training matches at Pairc Esler.
By all means if there is a young player who is one of the best players in his division then I'm all for him being on the County Panel but players on it have to warrant their place. There are too many passengers (even on last years panel) who are happy enough to remain just that.
Goldenyears your argument regarding "player gossip" being a key factor is also quite naive....boys will look after their mates & friends. Of course there will be a bit of banter between panelists about who is playing well but to suggest that if a guy is playing well he will definitely get his chance is not always the case.
Fellas like Colm Kearney (Bryansford) Brian Cole (Rostrevor) Jason Brown (Hilltown) Gareth Johnson (Tullylish) John Boyle (Warrenpoint) and others had all been playing well for their respective clubs last year but couldn't make a McKenna Cup Squad which in reality consisted of quite a few who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.
Until a fairer system of selection is developed the same pointless arguments will crop up every year. A suggestion might be Selectors actually going to watch games outside Div 1 & seeing what else is on offer, who's playing well & who is consistent.

Fantastic post and you are 100 per cent right in all that your saying. I seen quite a lot in division 1 this year, games where McCartan and Johnston where at and i seen many other players playing better than some of those on the trial list. So i agree politics does play a big part too.

Reastically though the starting 15 from the all ireland this year plus the 5 subs that where used on the day as well as Ambrose, Alder, Colgan, Carr and Sexton are the top 25 and are the mainstays of next years squad IMO. They will have 5 to add to this which will likely be Anderson, Gary McArdle, Duffin, Mark Doran and Luke Howard to make up the 30. They may give others a game or two in McKenna cup but its hard to see any standout candidates that could turn into major county players. The under 21s should be left there until they are finished in spring time with the form players being brought in at that stage. Ohagan is the obvious under 21 that could make the break through but i dont see the sence in playing him in the slog that is January at senior level when the under 21s will be preparing for their campaign.

Good observations, but can anyone tell me (as our club are in Div 3) have we any class players coming through that are big?

Down and the guys mentioned are a very small team, and, I don't think a county team can carry more than two small forwards.

One guy I have seen in the past couple of years who is big and strong and looks like he has it is John McAreavey from Tullylish - always thought he should have been given a go.

packie Downey and sheeran from drumgath

[Mourne Rover]

McAreavey had a few runs in the McKenna Cup previously but looked a far stronger and more confident player in this year's IFC. If O'Hagan continues to develop through the u21s, he also has a great chance of making the breakthrough.

Sheeran has been a fine club midfielder for years, but it is very difficult to see him making the senior squad at this stage, while it is questionable if Downey is any better now than than the period when he was given championship starts and produced unconvincing displays in 2007.

However, what we are really hoping for is the return of a fully fit Ambrose. If that happens, and the rest of last summer's heroes can push on, we will be a serious side again.

[Don Johnson]

McAreavey had a few runs in the McKenna Cup previously but looked a far stronger and more confident player in this year's IFC. If O'Hagan continues to develop through the u21s, he also has a great chance of making the breakthrough.

Sheeran has been a fine club midfielder for years, but it is very difficult to see him making the senior squad at this stage, while it is questionable if Downey is any better now than than the period when he was given championship starts and produced unconvincing displays in 2007.

However, what we are really hoping for is the return of a fully fit Ambrose. If that happens, and the rest of last summer's heroes can push on, we will be a serious side again.

He had one run out in the McKenna Cup I think in which he scored a couple goals and a couple points and never got another chance.

[Mourne Rover]

/quote] He had one run out in the McKenna Cup I think in which he scored a couple goals and a couple points and never got another chance.

McAreavey was in the Down squad which won the McKenna Cup in 08. He got 2-3 on his debut against Donegal in Newry, which was a notable achievement even lthough the opposition was poor that night, and also started the next game against UUJ, but did not score. As far as I know, he has not been subsequently involved, but at the very least he would merit another couple of McKenna matches in January.

[BarryBreensBandage]

/quote] He had one run out in the McKenna Cup I think in which he scored a couple goals and a couple points and never got another chance.

McAreavey was in the Down squad which won the McKenna Cup in 08. He got 2-3 on his debut against Donegal in Newry, which was a notable achievement even lthough the opposition was poor that night, and also started the next game against UUJ, but did not score. As far as I know, he has not been subsequently involved, but at the very least he would merit another couple of McKenna matches in January.

What age is he? Is time on his side?

[13aside]

cros and glenties off till next week think the other ulster finals are off also

[Don Johnson]

What age is he? Is time on his side?

26

[No hoper]

Any under 20 matches go ahead. Mayobridge and hilltown game was called off.

[western exile]

 
U-20 Football Championship Section A
Date                    Team 1          Score     Score           Team 2   Venue   
25-Nov-2010    Teconnaught   0 - 2           8 - 19   Bryansford   Teconnaught   R1
23-Nov-2010    Bryansford           1 - 25   1 - 2           Shamrocks   Bryansford           R2

[Don Johnson]

Are Bryansford really good or are those other two just really shite?

[knockitdown]

Last years list. Any changes so far for the beginning of 2011 Season?

2011 Managers

Division 1

Mayobridge - Eamon McEnaney
Kilcoo - Jim McCorry
Bryansford - Pete McGrath
Clonduff - Paul Lambe
Burren - Frank Dawson
Longstone - Jody Gormley
Castlewellan -
An Riocht - Stephen Poucher
Liatroim -
Rostrevor - John Rafferty
Ballyholland - Shane Mulholland
Saval - Declan Morgan


Annaclone - Tom Potter
Shamrocks -
Clann na Banna - Tony Wilson
Downpatrick - Kyran Smyth
Ballymartin -
Attical -
Warrenpoint - Kevin Franklin/Glenn Elmore
Loughinisland - Paul McShane
Drumgath - Mickey Linden

Kilclief - John Kane
Tullylish - Keith Farrell
Bosco -
Drumaness - Bill Geoghegan
Dundrum - Paul Shields
St Johns - Gerard McAnulty Snr/Donard King/Seamus Braniff
Glasdrumman - Benny Corrigan
Carryduff - Andy Moohan
Darragh Cross - Eamon Burns
Saul - Paul Evans
Glenn - John Kennedy/Tony Bagnall
Ardglass -


Bredagh - Kevin Blaney
Mitchels - Harry Cooney/Nigel Allen
Teconnaught - Brendan Mason
St Michaels - Robert Wilson
Bright -
Ballykinlar - Skin Hanna/DJ Morgan
Dromara -
Aughlisnafin - Philly McGrattan/Gerard McCartan
Aghaderg -
St Pauls -