Down Club Hurling & Football

[thewobbler]

I'd agree. Ross and DJ aren't the men for the job.

I'll be fair here and point out that unlike their predecessor, they at least got the team to perform with a bit of passion and drive in the qualifiers - so a step in the right direction was made. Down have also made significant strides in really competing for breaking ball in recent seasons.

But, in most other aspects of management they did little to improve to Paddy O'Rourke's failings and in some instances seemed to wallow in protecting tose failings.

The attacking strategy still too often reduced to an aimless hoof towards Coulter's corner. The brevity of leadership, nastiness and cuteness in Down teams. Forwards being rotated randomly for no good reason, even when playing effectively in one position. Random substitutions that seemingly owed more to who was doing well in training than being of tactical / positional benefit to the team. A preference for using the league for experimentation rather than for building a settled team spine. An unwillingness to trust real defenders at full-back and centre-back, preferring instead to crucify more gifted talents of limited defensive nous in those key positions. The sheer unwillingness to accept that sometimes, against some teams, you simply need 8 players on the pitch whose first thoughts surround protecting their own goal. Clouded judgement about players from their own clubs. Naming the wrong team in the paper. Leaving players wondering if they might be playing Championship football right up the night before a big game.

The good thing for Down football is that most of these failings could be addressed quickly. The bad thing for Down football is that I imagine our county board won't pursue a candidate who might try to do this, instead favouring someone who will continue to "play the Down way".

[Cúig huaire]

The good thing for Down football is that most of these failings could be addressed quickly. The bad thing for Down football is that I imagine our county board won't pursue a candidate who might try to do this, instead favouring someone who will continue to "play the Down way".

Who do the members of this board think the next Down manager will be?

[Mid Down Gael]

James Colgan. A born winner and still only 22.
James McGovern 24 and a decent player, better than many lads on squad.
Sean Parr 22, consistent and versitile player with Rostrevor.
Clarke and Walsh more than capabale.

So all told, you've suggested:

1. A midfielder who regularly couldn't make his college's Sigerson team, despite being a marquee name.
2. A player who has never settled as a half-forward, full-forward or half-back for his club, let alone county.
3. A useful utility player who just doesn't have the physical attributes to establish himself as a serious county player.
4. Two players who have lots of Championship experience, but very few Championship hghlights between them.


Don't get me wrong, all 5 of those are worth a place in a Down squad. But when it comes to a Championship team, all of them are forwards or midfielders, and none of them have the attributes that would see them close to guaranteed a spot in Down's midfield or forward line. So they aren't terrible ommissions.

I am not suggesting these men will make Down a major force, im saying they are all quality players who perform consistently. I believe they are much better footballers than what we have on the current squad. With the exception off Hughes, Dan and Benny these men are as good as the rest, especially Walsh and Clarke. James Colgan started for UUJ this year i can confirm for a fact and was third choice midfielder in the sigerson winning team to two current county stars. Men like Jamie ORielly cant make the QUB squad and is on Down squad. An outside man is required in Down that will give all posible county players a fair crack at it and have the team playing to a system that does not involve cross field short passing that we witnessed so much this year. The current squad are not doing it so a change in management is imperative or we will be no further on this time next year.

[dodgy umpire]

James Colgan. A born winner and still only 22.
James McGovern 24 and a decent player, better than many lads on squad.
Sean Parr 22, consistent and versitile player with Rostrevor.
Clarke and Walsh more than capabale.

So all told, you've suggested:

1. A midfielder who regularly couldn't make his college's Sigerson team, despite being a marquee name.
2. A player who has never settled as a half-forward, full-forward or half-back for his club, let alone county.
3. A useful utility player who just doesn't have the physical attributes to establish himself as a serious county player.
4. Two players who have lots of Championship experience, but very few Championship hghlights between them.


Don't get me wrong, all 5 of those are worth a place in a Down squad. But when it comes to a Championship team, all of them are forwards or midfielders, and none of them have the attributes that would see them close to guaranteed a spot in Down's midfield or forward line. So they aren't terrible ommissions.

I am not suggesting these men will make Down a major force, im saying they are all quality players who perform consistently. I believe they are much better footballers than what we have on the current squad. With the exception off Hughes, Dan and Benny these men are as good as the rest, especially Walsh and Clarke. James Colgan started for UUJ this year i can confirm for a fact and was third choice midfielder in the sigerson winning team to two current county stars. Men like Jamie ORielly cant make the QUB squad and is on Down squad. An outside man is required in Down that will give all posible county players a fair crack at it and have the team playing to a system that does not involve cross field short passing that we witnessed so much this year. The current squad are not doing it so a change in management is imperative or we will be no further on this time next year.

what he said

[thewobbler]

I am not suggesting these men will make Down a major force, im saying they are all quality players who perform consistently. I believe they are much better footballers than what we have on the current squad. With the exception off Hughes, Dan and Benny these men are as good as the rest, especially Walsh and Clarke. James Colgan started for UUJ this year i can confirm for a fact and was third choice midfielder in the sigerson winning team to two current county stars. Men like Jamie ORielly cant make the QUB squad and is on Down squad. An outside man is required in Down that will give all posible county players a fair crack at it and have the team playing to a system that does not involve cross field short passing that we witnessed so much this year. The current squad are not doing it so a change in management is imperative or we will be no further on this time next year.

We could go around in circles with the Walsh /  Clarke situation forever. It remind me so much of Darren Fletcher's absence from the Champions League final being held up as an excuse for United's performance. Yes Fletcher is a capable performer, but no he is not the difference between United being contenders and also rans, not even close. Same with Walsh and Clarke. Both very, very capable players, but at the same time more distinguished in their absence than in their presence.


The bottom line for me is that the squads Ross and DJ have selected over the past few years have, by and large, been on the mark. As was the case during Paddy O'Rourke's tenure. Getting the best out of the 30-35 assembled players has been the problem.

[Cúig huaire]

Been told that Ross is quitting.

[loughshore lad]

What are the thoughts on Paddy Tally around the Mournes?

How did he perform in his role as coach?

[norabeag]

What are the thoughts on Paddy Tally around the Mournes?

How did he perform in his role as coach?

My understanding is that he is held in high regard by the players.
Ross is also highly regraded by most of the players.
There have been mixed messages re Ross's intentions but lets hope we do not get the theatricals of the last managers departure and that all sentimentality re Pete McGrath is put to bed.
If we are to get a new manager it has to be from outside the county as there are no stand out choices internally.
Our way back to the top table will not be swift irrespective of recent minor and U 21 successes and if we do manage quick improvement in senior football it will be despite of rather than because of our set up.
The whole set up in Down needs sorted re coaching structures and juvenile set up.
Unfortunately we do not have the personnel at Co Board level with the vision to lead on this.
A fantastic opportunity was missed when the paid post came up to put a visionary in place so I do not see much change there in the next few years

[behind the wire]

I am not suggesting these men will make Down a major force, im saying they are all quality players who perform consistently. I believe they are much better footballers than what we have on the current squad. With the exception off Hughes, Dan and Benny these men are as good as the rest, especially Walsh and Clarke. James Colgan started for UUJ this year i can confirm for a fact and was third choice midfielder in the sigerson winning team to two current county stars. Men like Jamie ORielly cant make the QUB squad and is on Down squad. An outside man is required in Down that will give all posible county players a fair crack at it and have the team playing to a system that does not involve cross field short passing that we witnessed so much this year. The current squad are not doing it so a change in management is imperative or we will be no further on this time next year.

We could go around in circles with the Walsh /  Clarke situation forever. It remind me so much of Darren Fletcher's absence from the Champions League final being held up as an excuse for United's performance. Yes Fletcher is a capable performer, but no he is not the difference between United being contenders and also rans, not even close. Same with Walsh and Clarke. Both very, very capable players, but at the same time more distinguished in their absence than in their presence.


The bottom line for me is that the squads Ross and DJ have selected over the past few years have, by and large, been on the mark. As was the case during Paddy O'Rourke's tenure. Getting the best out of the 30-35 assembled players has been the problem.

correct wobbler.

Ross and DJ cannot be faulted for not giving boys a chance. they looked to all divisions and definitely selected the best players from the smaller clubs.

as you say getting the best out of the players available is the main problem.

[Mid Down Gael]

I am not suggesting these men will make Down a major force, im saying they are all quality players who perform consistently. I believe they are much better footballers than what we have on the current squad. With the exception off Hughes, Dan and Benny these men are as good as the rest, especially Walsh and Clarke. James Colgan started for UUJ this year i can confirm for a fact and was third choice midfielder in the sigerson winning team to two current county stars. Men like Jamie ORielly cant make the QUB squad and is on Down squad. An outside man is required in Down that will give all posible county players a fair crack at it and have the team playing to a system that does not involve cross field short passing that we witnessed so much this year. The current squad are not doing it so a change in management is imperative or we will be no further on this time next year.

We could go around in circles with the Walsh /  Clarke situation forever. It remind me so much of Darren Fletcher's absence from the Champions League final being held up as an excuse for United's performance. Yes Fletcher is a capable performer, but no he is not the difference between United being contenders and also rans, not even close. Same with Walsh and Clarke. Both very, very capable players, but at the same time more distinguished in their absence than in their presence.


The bottom line for me is that the squads Ross and DJ have selected over the past few years have, by and large, been on the mark. As was the case during Paddy O'Rourke's tenure. Getting the best out of the 30-35 assembled players has been the problem.

correct wobbler.

Ross and DJ cannot be faulted for not giving boys a chance. they looked to all divisions and definitely selected the best players from the smaller clubs.

as you say getting the best out of the players available is the main problem.

Yeah they looked too much into lower divisions and ignored top clubs like Kilcoo, Castlewellan, Longstone and Rostrevor. There are about ten players from these clubs who didnt get a chance and deserved a chance. There are players on current squad who would find it difficult to break into a top 6 division 1 side. The way the Clarke and Walsh cases where handled is the main problem. Both players deserved better after the sercive they gave to Down since 1999. No one is saying they would have made a major difference but they should have been there.

[5 Sams]

This week's Fixtures

Sun 26th July 2 00 throw in
ACFL Div 1 Longstone v Castlewellan(C Reynolds)  Burren v Loughinisland(D Brogan)  Rostrevor v Liatroim(N Morgan)  Mayobridge v Bryansford(J Burns) Saval v Warrenpoint(C Brannigan)

ACFL Div 2 Downpatrick v Clann na Banna(L Morgan)  Atticall v Kilclief(N Cousins) Carryduff v Annaclone(D Laverty)  Ballyholland v Ballymartin(S O Hanlon)  Darragh Cross v An Riocht(P Brannigan)  Shamrocks v Glasdrumman(E O Hare)

ACFL Div 3 Tullylish v Drumaness(C Broderick)  Glenn v Saul(B Rice) St Johns v Aghaderg(M Rawlinson)  Dundrum v Teconnaught(M Curran)  Ardglass v Drumgath(A Grant) St Pauls v Bredagh(Aug 4th)

ACFL Div 4 St Micheals v Aughlisnafinn(E Mc Grath)  Bright v Ballykinlar(G Brannigan) Mitchels v Dromara(D Kearns)

Mon 27th July 7 30
ACFL Div 1 Clonduff v Kilcoo(D Moore)

ACPRC  Castlewellan v An Riocht(D Cotter)   Annaclone v Mayobridge(E Mc Carthy) Carryduff v Ballymartin(M Curran)  Loughinisland v Burren(O Burke)  Tullylish v Rostrevor(P Mc Dade)   Liatroim v Ballyholland(D Kearns)  Warrenpoint v Bryansford(P Mc Clorey)

RFC Burren v Mayobridge(M O Rourke)  Ardglass v Kilclief(P Mc Cartan)  St Johns v St John Bosco(F Holland)  Drumaness v Glenn(C Mc Alinden)  Bryansford v Teconnaught(J Mc Mullan)  Clann na Banna v Rostrevor(E Mc Grath)  Castlewellan v Bredagh(B Cousins)

Tues 28th 7 30 ACPRC Clonduff v Downpatrick(D Ryan

[Town Gael]

They certainly gave players form lower clubs a chance- last season there were 7 Shamrocks players on the initial Down panel !! 7 players they thought were county standard yet weren't good enough to get out of Division 2!!!

[5 Sams]

They certainly gave players form lower clubs a chance- last season there were 7 Shamrocks players on the initial Down panel !! 7 players they thought were county standard yet weren't good enough to get out of Division 2!!!

They'll be getting out of it this year alright

[No1]

 

[Mourne Rover]

Wobbler's point is well made, as by and large we have had our best players in the county squad. It is also correct that Walsh and Clarke would not have single-handedly transformed our season, but they remain useful and experienced performers  who would have added competition for places and their omission provided an entirely unnecessary focus for discontent. Both would have to be rated ahead of McArdle, who started our final game against Wicklow, and Boyle and Fegan, who both came off the bench, on all known form.

Of the other names mentioned, James McGovern previously had an extended run in both league and championship without really making the grade. Parr has always looked a decent prospect at both club and underage level, and should at least be in the next McKenna Cup squad. Colgan seems to be a much more complex story.  He may lack pace, but he is strong, confident and uses the ball well - his long fist passes alone would give us a useful option, and he has proved himself at minor, u21 and Sigerson level. He made a reasonable, if belated, debut against Armagh in the USC last year, but was immediately dropped for the rest of the qualifiers and has not had a look in since. While this is probably down to attitude, he should still get at least a couple of league games to allow a considered decision on his worth.

However, regardless of who is in charge next year, they will still have to work with the same basic resources. Our team selections have generally started with something which is fairly close to the best 15, but our tactics and our use of subs have been frequently ineffective.