Down Club Hurling & Football

[Leo]

There is an old saying that if you consistently keep failing with plan A then it is time for plan B.
That is why it is time to forget about Sexton and Murtagh in particular and move on.

Not only is a shake up needed in personnel but also in formation.

We have one of the most gifyed forwards in the game, we are using him badly and we need to change that.
We do not have wonderful defenders so we need a more defensive set up behind the fowards.
We stutter and fail with this awful short passing but have the speed and natural football to make good use of the diagonal long ball to open up defences.

The team to achieve this  is:

Goals: McVeigh

Full back line: Howard, Sloan, Cole. (I have been suggesting Sloan for this position for over a year).

Half-backs: Murphy, Doyle (or Garvey if Doyle still missing), Duffin.

Utilise a 4-man Mid-field: Gordon, Carr, Rodgers (Ireland or Fitzpatrick if Ambrose still out) & Davey.  (Select Carr & Davey at half forward but play 4 across middle. Seen enough of Davey to rate hinm as a smart player and Carr has not enough tackle in him to play further back but both these can deliver quality ball from deep)

Half-forward line: McComiskey, Clarke, Hughes.

Benny on his own up front. With loads of room, a nightmare for any full-back.
McComiskey & Hughes have speed to come from deep and play off Benny

If the opposition play two on him then push McComiskey & Hughes to the flanks to run at defence, with support through middle from Clarke, and two of the middle men pushing forward.

Horses for courses.

Back in the eighties we habd the same arguments about great wee players like Shorty & Bundy Mason but they cut no mustard at county level and only when they were replaced did we win two All-Irelands.

[gaahead2008]

What is the reason for both clarke and murtagh's omissions from the squad if ya don't mind me asking??

murtagh cited work committments for his absence, apparently carr said his attitude wasnt right

clarke had a family engagement on same time as training - apologised for missing training and carr tect him to say dont bother coming back

an interesting formation there LEO, joe ireland has to be the big find for this season-, strong fella although his vision is limited. really hope michael magee gets a chance come league time - I'm interested to see if he can make the cut on a big day.

[Mourne Rover]

There's plenty to talk about in the selections from Wobbler and Leo, but I would have to point out to Wobbler that in my post last night (reply no 8235) I only suggested Magee as a contender if he continued to improve - he obviously has a long way to go at the moment.

Funnily enough, Wobbler, having expressed concerns about inexperience, went on to pick Ireland, who has just as little senior grounding as Magee, Duffin, who has less, and Fitzpatrick, who has yet to kick a competitive ball at this level.

As it happens, I agree that all three have clear potential and I expect to see them featuring in the spring and possibly even the summer. The only name apart from Magee that I would definitely add to Wobbler's list is McKernan, and I think that Cole should ideally be in the corner rather than at full back.

I'm not sure about Sloan at number three either, as proposed by Leo, but there is only one way to find out. Although I would not rule out an extra defender, I can't see four at midfield as viable, and I think McComiskey can probably only play at corner forward.

As far as Murtagh is concerned, we seem to be dragging out a fairly simple debate. He deserves a place in the squad if he can either take his scores or consistently win the ball, or both. Last summer, apart from the non-event against Offaly, he did neither, so he will obviously face increased competition for selection and he needs to prove himself all over again. The difference with Coulter is that, even when he is relatively out of form, he is still liable to score a goal. When he is on form, he would get on to any team in the country.

[blowinharp:-)]

What is the reason for both clarke and murtagh's omissions from the squad if ya don't mind me asking??

murtagh cited work committments for his absence, apparently carr said his attitude wasnt right

clarke had a family engagement on same time as training - apologised for missing training and carr tect him to say dont bother coming back

an interesting formation there LEO, joe ireland has to be the big find for this season-, strong fella although his vision is limited. really hope michael magee gets a chance come league time - I'm interested to see if he can make the cut on a big day.

correct, clarke informed carr that he was unable to attend training on sun 28th, and the reply from carr was clear - be there or dont come back.  i think this is a harsh decision for a number of reasons:
- there wasnt 'suppose' to be any training on before jan
- you cant question clarkes training commitment as he very rarely misses any
- it was christmas!

Mr carr should question himself    ..... did he miss any training sessions in his time?

[Pangurban]

Leos analysis while interesting and worthy of discussion is let Down by his Judgement on Shorty and Bundy Mason. While he is right about Shorty failing to transfer his enormous talent from club to county, the same cannot be said of Bundy. Bundy was one of the best forwards Down ever produced, and despite playing on a poor team, managed to emerge as the highest scorer in the country in 1986.

[Open yer eyes Man]

Down U-21 Football Panel named
 
Down Under 21 Footballers play Louth on Tuesday Night 20th January at Darver. Bus will leave the Queens Student Union at 4.45 pm and Canal Court Newry at 6.00 pm.

The Following players are asked to be in attendance

Gavin Joyce
Kieran Gordan
Cathal Murdock
Mark Digney
Joe Murphy
Timmy Hanna
Colm Murney
Damien Turley
Anton Haughey
Niall Higgins
Ryan Boyle
Conor Poland
Ryan McGovern
Aaron Somers
Ciaran Coffey
Luke Byrne
Peter Fitzpatrick
Eamonn Toner
Michael Magee
Ruarai Digney
Jamie O Reilly
Paul McCumiskey
Conor Maginn
Paul Devlin
Tony Havern
Joe Starkey
Conor Magee
Cathal Crilly
Conaill McGovern
Ben O Reilly
Cian Slevin



Not too many surprise inclusions.

[DownFanatic]

Thats a fairly decent looking under 21 team. A lot of players on it that werent on the corresponding team at Minor level in 2006. You would have to have fairly decent hopes for that set of players this coming year.

In regards to the Down Senior team for '09. Firstly, dont place too much emphasis on the emergence of Michael Magee. Ive seen him play on numerous occasions over the years and whilst there is no doubt he is physically strong, adept at free taking and a good ball carrier, Id have serious questions marks hanging over his attitude, temperment and consistency levels. Definitely not one who prospers when things arent going his way or for that matter in the heat of Championship battle.

It is absolutely ridiculous the slating Ronan Murtagh is getting on this board. He is a 100% effort player but I do feel that he has been played out of position too long. His best position in my eyes is full forward. Thats where he plays his club football most of the time and thats where he should be for the county. Ideally, Coulter and McComiskey (corner forward is the position best suited to him at this level) playing off him in the corners would surmount to a trio that would severely test the majority of defences in Ireland.

Id like to see how the National League will pan out. Kevin Duffin and Peter Fitzpatrick need more game time and they should be regulars on this team for the next ten years. Ireland is no doubt starting to realise his potential but Jackie Lynch may just be a better alternative in terms of offering something different to what Gordon offers.

For the National League, Id like to see something like this XV lining out:

1 - Michael McAllister

2 - Luke Howard
3 - Martin Cole
4 - Damien Rafferty

5 - Paul Murphy/Kevin Duffin
6 - Liam Doyle
7 - Aidan Carr

8 - Peter Fitzpatrick/Joe Ireland/Jack Lynch
9 - Dan Gordon

10 - Ronan Sexton
11 - Danny Hughes
12 - John Clarke

13 - Benny Coulter
14 - Ronan Murtagh
15 - Paul McComiskey

[Mourne Rover]

DF is writing off Magee very quickly, given that he is still an u21 and has yet to make his league debut. We will find out about his temperament soon enough, but, on the strength of his McKenna Cup form, it would be foolish not to give him an extended run in the spring. Physically strong men who can play a bit of football do not come along very often in our forward line.

There are plenty of positive elements about DF's league selection, but placing Hughes at centre half forward is highly unlikely to work. He really needs to be on the wing, and McKernan, unless he is needed at the back, looks a more natural  no 11 to me.

[dundrumite]

Thats a fairly decent looking under 21 team. A lot of players on it that werent on the corresponding team at Minor level in 2006. You would have to have fairly decent hopes for that set of players this coming year.

In regards to the Down Senior team for '09. Firstly, dont place too much emphasis on the emergence of Michael Magee. Ive seen him play on numerous occasions over the years and whilst there is no doubt he is physically strong, adept at free taking and a good ball carrier, Id have serious questions marks hanging over his attitude, temperment and consistency levels. Definitely not one who prospers when things arent going his way or for that matter in the heat of Championship battle.

It is absolutely ridiculous the slating Ronan Murtagh is getting on this board. He is a 100% effort player but I do feel that he has been played out of position too long. His best position in my eyes is full forward. Thats where he plays his club football most of the time and thats where he should be for the county. Ideally, Coulter and McComiskey (corner forward is the position best suited to him at this level) playing off him in the corners would surmount to a trio that would severely test the majority of defences in Ireland.

Id like to see how the National League will pan out. Kevin Duffin and Peter Fitzpatrick need more game time and they should be regulars on this team for the next ten years. Ireland is no doubt starting to realise his potential but Jackie Lynch may just be a better alternative in terms of offering something different to what Gordon offers.

For the National League, Id like to see something like this XV lining out:

1 - Michael McAllister

2 - Luke Howard
3 - Martin Cole
4 - Damien Rafferty

5 - Paul Murphy/Kevin Duffin
6 - Liam Doyle
7 - Aidan Carr

8 - Peter Fitzpatrick/Joe Ireland/Jack Lynch
9 - Dan Gordon

10 - Ronan Sexton
11 - Danny Hughes
12 - John Clarke

13 - Benny Coulter
14 - Ronan Murtagh
15 - Paul McComiskey

Not far off what I would be thinking, though Doyle is still out injured. Surely room has to be made somewhere for Ambrose (persuming he is fit). Would like to see Pete Fitzpatrick get his chance, any time I have seen him play he has being excellent. The same being true of Kevin Duffin, terrific passer,great vision and a football brain. Interesting employment of Aidan Carr on the edge of the square, be worth keeping an eye on to see if Ross persists with him there. Agee with MR in regards to the employment of Hughes on the wing

[umpire]

McKenna Cup Semi-fiinal

Its look like that
Down v Queens
Donegal v (Armagh, Monaghan or Tyrone) my guess is Armagh

[official]

There is an old saying that if you consistently keep failing with plan A then it is time for plan B.
That is why it is time to forget about Sexton and Murtagh in particular and move on.

Not only is a shake up needed in personnel but also in formation.

We have one of the most gifyed forwards in the game, we are using him badly and we need to change that.
We do not have wonderful defenders so we need a more defensive set up behind the fowards.
We stutter and fail with this awful short passing but have the speed and natural football to make good use of the diagonal long ball to open up defences.

The team to achieve this  is:

Goals: McVeigh

Full back line: Howard, Sloan, Cole. (I have been suggesting Sloan for this position for over a year).

Half-backs: Murphy, Doyle (or Garvey if Doyle still missing), Duffin.

Utilise a 4-man Mid-field: Gordon, Carr, Rodgers (Ireland or Fitzpatrick if Ambrose still out) & Davey.  (Select Carr & Davey at half forward but play 4 across middle. Seen enough of Davey to rate hinm as a smart player and Carr has not enough tackle in him to play further back but both these can deliver quality ball from deep)

Half-forward line: McComiskey, Clarke, Hughes.

Benny on his own up front. With loads of room, a nightmare for any full-back.
McComiskey & Hughes have speed to come from deep and play off Benny

If the opposition play two on him then push McComiskey & Hughes to the flanks to run at defence, with support through middle from Clarke, and two of the middle men pushing forward.

Horses for courses.

Back in the eighties we habd the same arguments about great wee players like Shorty & Bundy Mason but they cut no mustard at county level and only when they were replaced did we win two All-Irelands.




LEO,   Bundy Mason - Cut no mustard

Brendan Mason was one of the best Gaelic footballers ever to put on the famous red and black shirt, a former all star nominee and participant in an ~All star tour in the eighties, the former top scorer in ulster and Ireland was untouchable at club and county level, an Ohare cup winner (and Div1 down league 89), national league winner and collector of many more accolades. Mason would undoubtably be a great asset to the current county team. Masons bravery, speed and commitment was undoubtably the reason for his successful career as a gaelic footballer !

Loc An Oileann agus An Dun Abu 

[Mourne Rover]

I'm with Official on this one. Mason was brilliant for Down season after season after making his debut and actually winning the league in 82/83. He was at least as good as his fellow corner forward Linden in that period and I can hardly put it higher than that. Mason took a break in 90/91 and James suddenly emerged and gave us something different. However, Mason came back into the squad but McGrath seemed reluctant to pick him in the championship. McGrath got most things right, but it was strange that he did not use Mason, who was on the bench, at any stage when we were hammered by Derry at the Marshes in 93. Mason never returned, but it was cruel that he missed out on an AI medal. He was an outstanding Down player by any standards.

[Open yer eyes Man]

Gotta agree about Bundy - absolute fllying machine.  In his prime he was unreal and its just a pity was hadn't come along 5 years later than he did as he would have been involved in both of Down's All Irelands.  He was one of the mainstays of the Down teams in the late 80's and helped Loughinisland break up the Burren dominance of Down club football.

I don't think he played much for Down in the 90's and more recently has had to have both hips replaced, probably due to the abuse he received from savage corner backs trying to stop the speedster from Drumaness, Loughinisland.  

[Mid Down Gael]

Kilcoo beat Downpatrick/Ardglass in under 20 simi final 1-9 til 0-8. they will meet St.Marys in final. was at the game in newcastle, it was hard to belive kilcoo only have one county under 21. Dun Glais had 3 on view including senior player Michael Magee. again kilcoo are overlooked by county management. its hard to understand why when they consistently achieve at under age and senior level.

[Square Ball]

Kilcoo beat Downpatrick/Ardglass in under 20 simi final 1-9 til 0-8. they will meet St.Marys in final. was at the game in newcastle, it was hard to belive kilcoo only have one county under 21. Dun Glais had 3 on view including senior player Michael Magee. again kilcoo are overlooked by county management. its hard to understand why when they consistently achieve at under age and senior level.

what did St Marys beat the Duff by? Any word of the B competition?