Down Club Hurling & Football

[Brick Tamlin]

id beg to differ mainly due to the fact that This time last year Wpt were in a bottom 4 playoff and nearly got relegated, only just survived, then lost the spine of their team for one reason or another and now find themselves 12 months down the line as Div2 Champions and getting promoted, nobody give them a chance this season and probably not today so fair dues i say. Quite a remarkable turnaround i think.id wager more that they will celebrate alot more tonight than they did last week,also considering the fact that they rarely lift any silverware.

as for Bryansford id still say they will be very disappointed with the end to their season and judging by reports from inside the club all is not well in Newcastle.

[Open yer eyes Man]

Fair play to the point.  From having a few seasons of underachievement to Division 2 champions.  You cant fault that.

Taking in a few clubmen including ET Mc Givern and the Boyles da seems to have worked.  They seemed to have developed a real spirit this year and really need to keep this going.

[Downgael2008]

Think the new proposals will just cause more confusion next year, just leave the leagues the way they are and just have simple 2 up 2 down. In division 1 top 2 play off for the trophy. Any team coming from PRFL will walk div 4 and it would be interesting to see how far some of those sides could actually go, would mayobridge 2nds make it all the way to division 2 ?? Anyone??

[An Cloch Scoilte]

a lot of sence in that DF, but was this similar to what was proposed two years ago and was defeted? at least the team that tops the division will be crowned champions. If this does get the go ahead what will the divisions look like? w

Bar the PRFL winners going into divsion 4 (Mayobridge won it this year and would demoralise the opposition) these proposals make a lot of sense for many reasons. Your point about proposals like this being defeated two years ago is true, but the problem is the County board has never made any attempt to advocate and canvass for change. The matter was discussed little and the clubs and views were not sought in any meaningful way. If the county board is serious about these proposals, they should be forcefully arguing their case and not just ruck up on some random monthly meeting expecting everyone to row in behind it.

Whilst I would like these proposals to be ratified as quickly as possible, it must be too late for 2009. Clubs that have been promoted or avoided relegation have a legitimate
expectation. These proposals should be set out at the start of a league campaign when everyone knows where they stand, not at the end. 

I agree with this point that the standard in PRFL 1 is a lot higher than that of Div 4! Teams like the bridge would hammer teams in Div 4, and not only would this demoralise Div 4 teams, you would be depriving the likes of the bridge competitive football for 12 months until they return to PRFL the year after.

Another point would be, when are these games going to be played? Friday nights, when the 1st team of the promoted club to Div 4 is in action as well. Surely the 2nds players of any club, are also boys on the fringes of the 1st team, and in some cases might start, or at least provide cover.
I agree with the new league structures, but I think the Premier Reserve Leagues should be left as they are!

[Open yer eyes Man]

I don't know if anyone seen it but this week's Down Recorder carried a peice regarding the proposed new League structures for 2009. This proposal is to be put forward at Convention for the clubs to vote on. It was very badly worded and in parts is quite ambiguous.

Who exactly is putting this motion forward?  Has it come from a certain club or the County Board?  I would be surprised if it came from the County Board, if it is so badly worded and ambigious.  Surely they wouldn't put forward proposals that are not completely water tight, judging by their track record of making mistakes in the past.

I agree that we should go back to the 2 up, 2 down.  Just the way it used to be and what harm did it do us or the standard of our club football.  I also wouldn't be too fussed on the idea of a clubs reserve team playing in the 4th division.  This would totally demoralise clubs and would do nothing to promote our games in some 'weaker ' clubs.  I wonder what will happen at Convention.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Regarding the proposal to have PRFL teams playing in Div 4, it doesnt really matter who is putting it forward - it would be more interesting to know why it is being put forward. And if Div 4 isnt strong enough why isnt Div 3 or Div 2 considered - some of the PRFL teams could certainly compete at the top of Div 3.

If we really want to provide competitive football for everyone, why not limit team numbers to say 20 (named players) and any club who can field an additional 20 named players can enter two teams in the mainstream league structures - ie do away with PRFL completely but also players cant play for two teams.

Otherwise leave it as it is (which is probably my preferred solution)

[SQUAREBALL]

Regarding the proposal to have PRFL teams playing in Div 4, it doesnt really matter who is putting it forward - it would be more interesting to know why it is being put forward. And if Div 4 isnt strong enough why isnt Div 3 or Div 2 considered - some of the PRFL teams could certainly compete at the top of Div 3.
If we really want to provide competitive football for everyone, why not limit team numbers to say 20 (named players) and any club who can field an additional 20 named players can enter two teams in the mainstream league structures - ie do away with PRFL completely but also players cant play for two teams.

Otherwise leave it as it is (which is probably my preferred solution)

your some crack, Mayobridge PR footballers would do well against the likes of Glassdrumman

[off the laces]

Regarding the proposal to have PRFL teams playing in Div 4, it doesnt really matter who is putting it forward - it would be more interesting to know why it is being put forward. And if Div 4 isnt strong enough why isnt Div 3 or Div 2 considered - some of the PRFL teams could certainly compete at the top of Div 3.
If we really want to provide competitive football for everyone, why not limit team numbers to say 20 (named players) and any club who can field an additional 20 named players can enter two teams in the mainstream league structures - ie do away with PRFL completely but also players cant play for two teams.

Otherwise leave it as it is (which is probably my preferred solution)

your some crack, Mayobridge PR footballers would do well against the likes of Glassdrumman

Let the Convention sorted it out.There'll be enough people there to
get a fair and proper solution that suits the majority.

Well lets hope the majority get the chance to have a debate and that a solution is found because if not football in Down will be taking a back seat to the rest off the counties in Ulster who appreicate the roles off clubs and their club players.

[DownFanatic]

The ambiguity I was referring to on the language of the report centres around the starred system and the introduction of a PRFL team.
Firstly, the report doesn't explicitly state that the starred system will affect all Divisions. Depending on your interpretation, I took it that the starred system would only affect Divisions 3 and 4.
Secondly, if the proposals come to fruition this will be the lineup of  the Divisions:

1 - Mayobridge, Kilcoo, Rostrevor, Castlwellan, Burren, Clonduff, Loughinisland, Longstone, Saval and Liatroim
2 - An Riocht, Ballyholland, Bryansford, Annaclone, Warrenpoint, Banbridge, Shamrocks, Ballymartin, Darragh Cross, Atticall
3 - Tullylish, Downpatrick, Kilclief, Dundrum, Glasdrumman, Ardglass, Bredagh, Carryduff, Drumgath, Drumaness, Saul, St Pauls
4 - Glenn, Teconnaught, Bosco, St Michaels, Mitchels, St Johns, Aghaderg, Dromara, Bright, Ballykinlar, Aughlisnafin, Mayobridge II's

Now, what happens if Mayobridge II's win Division 4. We know they cannot be promoted so does this mean that only one other team from Div 4 will get promoted or will two teams go up?

[thewobbler]

These things are all about perspective. Is it really a bigger honour for seconds footballers to play at the lowest grade of senior football, than at the highest grade of seconds football? I don't think so. Certainly, in terms of competitiveness, this isn't even a choice.

If you want your seconds team to have solid, competitive football every week - and therefore be of a benefit to your senior team - you would surely do everything you could to ensure they didn't win the reserve league and get "promoted" to division IV.

By the way, i'd say Mayobridge's ACPRFC winning team would have given anyone in the IFC a hell of a run for their money, even Annaclone. Considering that the Championship rules out up to a dozen players who might be available for league football, I'd put the Bridge's seconds in Division II overall in terms of ability.


Perspective is also a strange thing for all these people who want to scrap the play-offs. I've a very straightforward opinion on league football given the starred system - finishing top of your league should only give you the right to see if you're good enough to get promoted, and not a right to get promoted. Gaining 38 points in Division II might mean you're a better team than Division II standard, but if you can't win 2 out of 3 in the play-offs against full-strength teams, then you won't be good enough for Division I.

Instead of seeing the league programme as a way of getting promoted, it should be seen as a way of gauging what level you belong at. Then comes the test.

[off the laces]

The ambiguity I was referring to on the language of the report centres around the starred system and the introduction of a PRFL team.
Firstly, the report doesn't explicitly state that the starred system will affect all Divisions. Depending on your interpretation, I took it that the starred system would only affect Divisions 3 and 4.
Secondly, if the proposals come to fruition this will be the lineup of  the Divisions:

1 - Mayobridge, Kilcoo, Rostrevor, Castlwellan, Burren, Clonduff, Loughinisland, Longstone, Saval and Liatroim
2 - An Riocht, Ballyholland, Bryansford, Annaclone, Warrenpoint, Banbridge, Shamrocks, Ballymartin, Darragh Cross, Atticall
3 - Tullylish, Downpatrick, Kilclief, Dundrum, Glasdrumman, Ardglass, Bredagh, Carryduff, Drumgath, Drumaness, Saul, St Pauls
4 - Glenn, Teconnaught, Bosco, St Michaels, Mitchels, St Johns, Aghaderg, Dromara, Bright, Ballykinlar, Aughlisnafin, Mayobridge II's

Now, what happens if Mayobridge II's win Division 4. We know they cannot be promoted so does this mean that only one other team from Div 4 will get promoted or will two teams go up?

Jesus when its put out like that football in East Down needs to be worked on, Div3 looks like an East Down section, although i would be all on for that a few meaty matches there....

[behind the wire]

These things are all about perspective. Is it really a bigger honour for seconds footballers to play at the lowest grade of senior football, than at the highest grade of seconds football? I don't think so. Certainly, in terms of competitiveness, this isn't even a choice.

If you want your seconds team to have solid, competitive football every week - and therefore be of a benefit to your senior team - you would surely do everything you could to ensure they didn't win the reserve league and get "promoted" to division IV.

By the way, i'd say Mayobridge's ACPRFC winning team would have given anyone in the IFC a hell of a run for their money, even Annaclone. Considering that the Championship rules out up to a dozen players who might be available for league football, I'd put the Bridge's seconds in Division II overall in terms of ability.


Perspective is also a strange thing for all these people who want to scrap the play-offs. I've a very straightforward opinion on league football given the starred system - finishing top of your league should only give you the right to see if you're good enough to get promoted, and not a right to get promoted. Gaining 38 points in Division II might mean you're a better team than Division II standard, but if you can't win 2 out of 3 in the play-offs against full-strength teams, then you won't be good enough for Division I.

Instead of seeing the league programme as a way of getting promoted, it should be seen as a way of gauging what level you belong at. Then comes the test.

hit the nail on the head there wobbler. i think the system is fine as it is. the only change i would make is to ensure that leagues are finished while the ground is still reasonably good. playoff system is fair enough, but a seasons football shouldnt be decided on a mucky field in weather that leaves players only able to kick the ball about 30 yards!!! as far as i can see that is the main problem raised by everybody.

i also think they should leave premier reserve football as it is, all those teams would be too strong for division4 and most of division 3.

what they do need to do is sort out the divisional reserve leagues, ie where thirds teams and lesser seconds teams play. it has been an ongoing joke for the past 3 years.


********
just wondering. would it be feasible to put all the better division 4 teams up into division 3 and then have a basement division where the remaining division 4 teams play against 3rds teams and poorer 2nds teams (i.e. teams currently in south down and east down reserve leagues). there would be no promotion but clubs who have a first team in the division could apply to join the leagues when they feel ready. at least then there would be competitive football on a regular basis. or would this not be fair on the bottom division 4 teams?

[Maiden1]

These things are all about perspective. Is it really a bigger honour for seconds footballers to play at the lowest grade of senior football, than at the highest grade of seconds football? I don't think so. Certainly, in terms of competitiveness, this isn't even a choice.

If you want your seconds team to have solid, competitive football every week - and therefore be of a benefit to your senior team - you would surely do everything you could to ensure they didn't win the reserve league and get "promoted" to division IV.

By the way, i'd say Mayobridge's ACPRFC winning team would have given anyone in the IFC a hell of a run for their money, even Annaclone. Considering that the Championship rules out up to a dozen players who might be available for league football, I'd put the Bridge's seconds in Division II overall in terms of ability.


Perspective is also a strange thing for all these people who want to scrap the play-offs. I've a very straightforward opinion on league football given the starred system - finishing top of your league should only give you the right to see if you're good enough to get promoted, and not a right to get promoted. Gaining 38 points in Division II might mean you're a better team than Division II standard, but if you can't win 2 out of 3 in the play-offs against full-strength teams, then you won't be good enough for Division I.

Instead of seeing the league programme as a way of getting promoted, it should be seen as a way of gauging what level you belong at. Then comes the test.

hit the nail on the head there wobbler. i think the system is fine as it is. the only change i would make is to ensure that leagues are finished while the ground is still reasonably good. playoff system is fair enough, but a seasons football shouldnt be decided on a mucky field in weather that leaves players only able to kick the ball about 30 yards!!! as far as i can see that is the main problem raised by everybody.

i also think they should leave premier reserve football as it is, all those teams would be too strong for division4 and most of division 3.

what they do need to do is sort out the divisional reserve leagues, ie where thirds teams and lesser seconds teams play. it has been an ongoing joke for the past 3 years.


********
just wondering. would it be feasible to put all the better division 4 teams up into division 3 and then have a basement division where the remaining division 4 teams play against 3rds teams and poorer 2nds teams (i.e. teams currently in south down and east down reserve leagues). there would be no promotion but clubs who have a first team in the division could apply to join the leagues when they feel ready. at least then there would be competitive football on a regular basis. or would this not be fair on the bottom division 4 teams?

Someone has to come last.  Even if you took the bottom 3 teams out of division 4 (which only leaves 3 teams) and put the rest in 3 you would probably find the bottom team might struggle to get 8 points all year.  Do you then say this team should be in the reserve league...

[behind the wire]

what i would propose would be having a division below the third, call it a junior division.

at the minute we have a division 4 thats a bit of a joke.

we also have a south down reserve league thats a complete joke (im not sure about the east down reserve league). in the south down reserve league we have about 5 teams that want to compete, the others play the first few games then gradually fold.

there are reserve teams such as ballyholland, clann na banna, Ballymartin, attical, dundrum etc who are decent reserve teams but just not strong enough for premier reserve. we could therefore move them into a new junior division together with the senior teams that arent strong enough for division 3. there would be no promotion, but any senior teams can apply to join division 3 if they think they are strong enough. this would lead to those reserve teams getting regular football while giving the other teams the chance to play some competitive matches which will hopefully let them improve.

its just an idea. i dont even know if it would be feasible. but i do think it is an area of football that the county board needs to look at rather than tinkering around with what is largely a decent league structure.

[spiritof91and94]

id beg to differ mainly due to the fact that This time last year Wpt were in a bottom 4 playoff and nearly got relegated, only just survived, then lost the spine of their team for one reason or another and now find themselves 12 months down the line as Div2 Champions and getting promoted, nobody give them a chance this season and probably not today so fair dues i say. Quite a remarkable turnaround i think.id wager more that they will celebrate alot more tonight than they did last week,also considering the fact that they rarely lift any silverware.

as for Bryansford id still say they will be very disappointed with the end to their season and judging by reports from inside the club all is not well in Newcastle.

Bryansford are promoted thats what they wanted but we lost our management team yesterday after the game, this is unfortunate but Burnsey has given us 7 years as trainer and manager and we thank him for that - we will have a look at it this week and an appointment will be made soon.
But our club is bigger than any one player.