Down Club Hurling & Football

[supersub]

Remaining Div one fixtures
Series 17
Liatroim v Castlewellan
Series 18
Loughinisland v Mayobridge
Clonduff v Liatroim
Kilcoo v Saval
Series 19
Mayobridge v Clonduff
Longstone v An Riocht
Burren v Castlewellan
Saval v Loughinisland
Liatroim v Kilcoo
Series 20
Liatroim v Mayobridge
Kilcoo v Loughinisland
Series 21
Loughinisland v Clonduff
Ballyholland v Longstone
Series 22
Clonduff v Kilcoo
Mayobridge v Saval
Liatroim v Loughinisland
Castlewellan v An Riocht
Burren v Ballyholland
Longstone v Rostrevor

Looks like six weeks minimum before play offs in div one - If Mayobridge get a run in Ulster at all it will be even more - surely this is unacceptable, the league will run to Christmas. This will probably put an end to any Under 20 Football?

It's a long season all right.  If you are in any of the playoff's you could be playing football in december then starting back pre-season in January.  You can get a bit sick looking at a football by the end of it.

it was clear to see from around the start of the championship time that the league fixtures were goin to pile up. i don't think theres much that can be done to prevent this and don't think the board should be blamed for this! if the bridge have a run in ulster fair play to them they deserve it, and also they are representing down so we should support them!

[spiritof91and94]

Why not play friday and monday nights in may and june?

[T O Hare]

Question for the Drumgath posters, do you think Mickey Linden will be there next year? I'd have put ye down as near certainties to at least reach the playoffs this year. I know you're at an immediate disadvantage in division three because of county commitments but would still have expected better. Not winding here, genuinely wondering, is it you, is it him or do you feel you're headed in the right direction?

Drumgath have contributed to their own downfall. It cant be blamed on the management. At the start of the year we lost 3 players to the county, and in June another 3 went to the states for the summer. I know every club is similar when it comes to injuries and that cant be used as an excuse. We also had a few stupid sendings off throught the year, particularly in the first championship game which hit us in the game against annaclone. The players have been turning out in numbers to training all year and this is down to the fact that mickey is the manager.

Your also right about the standard of football in division three, Some of our own reserve games have been better to watch. Mickey also takes part in training regularly so he would probably love the chance to play a few games  we could do with him!

Hopefully he stays on for another year, as we do have 5/6 young players coming through as our U-16 teams have won the Down B championship thats last 2 years running.

Unlike previous years, no one has a bad word to say about the manager, so homefully come Feb in castlewellen park he will still be pushing us around that lake!
[/quote]

I wish the rest of the county shared your view, we cant get Newry for a challenge game!!!! we were not allowed to train on it last year or this year before the county final yet Crossmaglen were allowed to train on it before last years Ulster final!!!!!!!!

[bridgegael]

looking forward to the minor championship final on sunday, has the potential to be a cracker.  bryansford will obviously be going in as favorites, they beat the bridge in the u16 final 2 years ago.  hopefully them 3 hard games against kilcoo will stand by the lads.  i would advise people to make their way to newry on sunday and watch what should be the best minor final for a long time in this county.

[6th sam]

This has to stop. It's bad enough for boys who only play club football, but what about those that play for the county or a university team, or all three. Only the fanatical would not be sick at the sight of a football come November.

It's time to reduce divisions 1,2 & 3 to ten teams. I am aware that would put teams into division 4 that would be way too strong but we can work on that. That's the way it used to be and the way it should be. I am aware this has been discussed before and teams have vetoed the proposals, usually out of self interest, in an effort to stay up. Nonetheless for the good of Down football and the players sanity it time for a ten team division. Top and bottom three instead of four in a ten team league also means less playoff games. Might mean Turkeys voting for Christmas in some cases (and I don't exclude my own club from that statement) but rather that, than the present debacle.

Agree with many of your sentiments,but not your solution.If as you propose 10 teams,that will mean only 18 league games,and 2 less home gates.If you're knocked out in 1st round of championship,that could mean only 19 games in total.On past experience 15 of these games will be squeezed into April,May,June.Leaving just 4 games to be played in the other 9 months--Well at least that leaves lads free to go to the states for the summer,and arrange as many weddings,stag weekends,concerts as they want.The other spin-off is that their soccer managers will be delighted!

No,I'm afraid we're going to need a more radical solution than that,Blue Island.
Here goes:

Problems-
prolonged season,burnout,fixture or time changes,playoffs promoting teams ill-equipped for higher league.conflict with county teams,sporadic fixtures in sept/oct-too many teams twiddling their thumbs at this time of year.

Possible Solution, open to debate:
1.A league should be just that-it should give an overall view of the consistency of  a club throughout a season,with and without county players-it should be accepted by all clubs that the league is a secondary competition,that they  may have to play without their county men,but that the league is totally independent of championship status-the purpose of the league should be to provide regular fixed date football for all club players.County players can play any league games they are released for.Top team promoted,bottom relegated,with next 3 teams from top and bottom playing off on the last day of the season--"Playoff Day".This top 4/bottom 4 scenario should keep the league honest ,right to the end!This would allow a 14 team div 1,2 and ?3,with 26 league games,1 playoff day.Max 27 games.(with 2 extra home fixtures to keep club treasurer happy).The change to 3 leagues would expose so many potential county players to a higher level of football.

2.The championship must be played with county players.There should be an initial round robin competition for seeding e.g.4 groups of 4,then all teams enter 1st round,after which winners take part in  "A" Q-finals and losers in "B" Q-finals.Giving all clubs at least 5,and maximum of 7 championship games.In JFC there will be 10-11 teams only-therefore giving some teams a bye into the Q-final.

3.Club season should start in March and finish 36weeks later in November,with a 16 week close season.There are a maximum of 34 fixtures which leaves 2 weeks for July hols,and no more than 1 game per week.The only exception to this being that if a club applies in advance to have a free weekend on AI weekend,their intended fixture is brought forward to a set Monday in August.

4.All fixtures and times should be rigid and not changed for any reason.In the case of a funeral,that match must be played on a Monday within 2 weeks.

5.All matches from September onwards should be fixed for Saturday at a set time.

6.Some may ask how are we going to fit in what amounts to an extra 5 fixtures-answer: in March/April prior to the current start date of 2nd week in April.But it will require imagination from the clubs to accept that league fixtures will go ahead regardless of county players,and sometimes on Saturdays(this happens anyway)-this takes the pressure of county players and the fixtures secretary.

7.At the risk of incuuring the wrath of fíor gaels out there,I'll make a Rugby analogy:Essentially this proposed system is the equivalent of Magniers league and Heinikin cup in Rugby.Magniers league games are played mostly without internationals,giving a secondary yet prestigious competition.All the big guns are then wheeled out for the Heinikin cup,which is a more prestigious ,yet compact competition.

What are contributors thoughts on this?In my opinion the status quo is no longer an option.Undoubtedly the biggest problem is the unpredictability of fixtures-and this is losing alot of players and mentors to the GAA,especially married ones.Importantly,we all have a responsiibility to our county players-and let's face it county success will benefit all gaels throughout the county.

[6th sam]

Why not play friday and monday nights in may and june?

With the credit crunch more and more players will be travelling further to work-making monday fixtures difficult for some.The current glut of fixture in may jun e.g 4 fixtures in 10 days is tough on amateur players and if a club has a few injuries,these compact fixtures could crucify them.

I'm afraid spirit the only solution is big clubs like yourselves accepting that in the interest of giving consistent fixtures to club players ,most league fixtures must go ahead without county men.This already happens with the starred system anyway.My argument is that we must reinforce the primacy of the championship,and yet league consistency must be rewarded.

Your relegation  last year and div 2 performance this year was a prime example.You are far too good for Div 2 ,but a few injuries ,and a couple of dodgy refereeing decisions on a boggy pitch in November could consign you to another year in div 2.Not only is that bad for bryansford ,its bad for the county.

My proposed system would see league winners promoted directly and bottom div 1 team relegated directly ,with 2nd placed  having to play 2nd bottom  in div 1 to prove they  are equipped for the top tier. etc.

I proposed 3 divisions ,but it may be fairer to keep the current 4 divisions for next season,with any alteration in numbers in individual  divisions at the end of 2009 season-with every club pre-warned accordingly.

[Blue Island]

What are contributors thoughts on this?In my opinion the status quo is no longer an option.Undoubtedly the biggest problem is the unpredictability of fixtures-and this is losing alot of players and mentors to the GAA,especially married ones.Importantly,we all have a responsiibility to our county players-and let's face it county success will benefit all gaels throughout the county.

Just reading your post 6th Sam, but have to run along for my dinner so don't have the requisite time to consider the entirety of your post yet. There is definite merit in extending the championship as per your proposals.

However, quite apart from the arguments I made in my original post, there is also, I think, the point that extending the divisions to 14 will only get rid of the intensity needed. At the moment there are too many teams in Down going through the motions, content in having divsion one or two status, safe in the knowledge that if they play in fits and spurts they can avoid relegation. A 14 team divsion will only exacerbate this trend. Less games and more intensity would not only help the improvement of players but also the county squad.

On a final caveat, I would commend the county board  on the way they run the leagues. When all is said and done, they do a good job with the format as it stands, but it is the format that needs changed. 

[Lecale2]

There's too many league matches with the play-offs. They should reduce the size of the leagues to 10 with top& bottem 3 playing off.

[Maiden1]

There are 43 league teams so the 4 divisions should have 11 teams (1 have 10 obviously). You get to play 20 league games.   Division 4 has 6 teams in it at the minute so you play 5 teams 4 times.  Fair play to St John's but some of there matches is like an under 12 match where you win by 20+ points.  At least if division 4 had 10 or 11 teams the matches would be meaningful and the rest of the leagues would finish a few weeks earlier as well.

[Dromara Gael]

There are 43 league teams so the 4 divisions should have 11 teams (1 have 10 obviously). You get to play 20 league games.   Division 4 has 6 teams in it at the minute so you play 5 teams 4 times.  Fair play to St John's but some of there matches is like an under 12 match where you win by 20+ points.  At least if division 4 had 10 or 11 teams the matches would be meaningful and the rest of the leagues would finish a few weeks earlier as well.

Three divisions is the only answer, playing teams 4 times is a joke. St. Johns would'nt be giving Aghaderg many points in that situation

[Lecale2]

There are 43 league teams so the 4 divisions should have 11 teams (1 have 10 obviously). You get to play 20 league games.   Division 4 has 6 teams in it at the minute so you play 5 teams 4 times.  Fair play to St John's but some of there matches is like an under 12 match where you win by 20+ points.  At least if division 4 had 10 or 11 teams the matches would be meaningful and the rest of the leagues would finish a few weeks earlier as well.

Three divisions is the only answer, playing teams 4 times is a joke. St. Johns would'nt be giving Aghaderg many points in that situation

Aughlisnafin, Ballykinlar & Killyleagh should play in East Down league. That leaves 40 - 10 in each Division playing home and away, 18 league games plus play-offs.

[Square Ball]

can some one refreash my merory here.. what changes to the set up did the clubs reject last year?

[western exile]

There are 43 league teams so the 4 divisions should have 11 teams (1 have 10 obviously). You get to play 20 league games.   Division 4 has 6 teams in it at the minute so you play 5 teams 4 times.  Fair play to St John's but some of there matches is like an under 12 match where you win by 20+ points.  At least if division 4 had 10 or 11 teams the matches would be meaningful and the rest of the leagues would finish a few weeks earlier as well.

Three divisions is the only answer, playing teams 4 times is a joke. St. Johns would'nt be giving Aghaderg many points in that situation

What was the result of the Aghaderg v. Bright match?  Did Aghaderg make the extra point they needed to overtake Dromara and get promotion?

[fred the red]

Send Magheralin into Armagh, that would help cut down on the number of games in div 3!!!!   

[guevara]

The fixtures at the minute are something of a joke. Clubs like my own are being left high and dry by the county board through their pig ignorance to play games on Saturdays.
Whats wrong with sundays? Clubs that are based in towns are being crucified as many of there players play both GAA & Soccer.

How can you try to encourage boys to come play GAA when at the most crucial part of the season we decide to stage our games on the same day as one of the biggest sports in the country?
Clubs like Banbridge, Castlewellan, Downpatrick and the Newry clubs are I'm sure in the same situation.
Whats wrong with Sundays? The playoffs decide a clubs fate for the forthcoming year yet some clubs cant put out there strongest teams due to the idiocracy of the fixtures being set!!