Down Club Hurling & Football

[whitegoodman]

Sad end to the careers of some great Down servants over the past 10yrs. They leave with reputations intact and will be fondly remembered. Now is the time to start rebuilding and develop our fringe players, beginning with the Tipp game

Who's career is over though and who is better to come in?

Mcveigh - ok may come under some pressure from Harrison but wouldn't write him off.
Dan McCartan - possibly but likely to be kept on.
Hughes - injuries taking its toll, not the pace he once had but again wouldnt write him off.
Doyle - still a classy footballer but needs to stay injury free and get fitter, still a lot to offer.
Coulter - similar to Hughes, may not be what he was but what a sper sub to be able to introduce.

The rest of the panel are relatively young and I don't see a clear out of the panel.  Besides there isn't much around the county young or old to come in.  Was at the Burren and Ballyholland match and there wasn't many that stood out apart from Declan Rooney who seems to be out of favour at the minute anyway.

[whitegoodman]

Just to note as far as I am aware Gerard McCartan has left the panel, was playing tonight.

[DownFanatic]

Dundrum beat Aghaderg tonight in Ballyvarley to secure promotion to the new Division 2 for the 2013 season with 4 games to play.

[Mid Down Gael]

Disappointing defeat yesterday but no time to feel sorry, let's get back at it and beat tipp and see what happens after that. We are an average side but on any given day these lads can pull of big results. A tipp victory and a hopeful quarter final against Mayo and you never no what can happen. But if we meet cork or Dublin we may say farewell.
Thought it was a disgrace to ask 3 panelists, recent call ups I must add, to make their own way to clones yesterday as there was apparently not enough room on the bus. That must gave them 3 some confidence going forward. Joke.

[here comes 6]

Just to note as far as I am aware Gerard McCartan has left the panel, was playing tonight.

Why I wonder? 

[snoopdog]

Dundrum beat Aghaderg tonight in Ballyvarley to secure promotion to the new Division 2 for the 2013 season with 4 games to play.

Did they win well?
I assume McCommiskey was the star of the show again?
how down could have done with a player of his ability yesterday. I dont know what McCartan was playing at with him.

[PAULD123]

On Saturday I was talking to an Armagh Minor's coach, He said "Down could win if they keep their discipline but they probably won't. Down are well known for losing discipline under-pressure. All county managers know that and look to exploit it. It was something that was talked about before the game last year (Armagh first-round)"

Yes I agree there were some panic substitutions on Sunday and the sideline choices did not help. But I really think the management can not be blamed. They clearly sent the team out with a plan which was to hold Donegal, Prevent attacks and space. In possession there was two tactics. If it is turnover ball inside our 45 then the strategy was to hit fast ball to Coulter and Laverty. If it was break ball around midfield then the strategy was to run at the Donegal defence laying the ball off before the challenge to gain territory. To push Donegal right back and to create a line of red around the scoring zone.

This worked well in the first half and if we had stuck to it then it would have kept us in the game right to the end. But the team went ragged. When the second goal went in and Donegal had their tails up Down should have put 13 men behind the ball, filled the space and totally prevented scores. We would certainly have got turn overs and some of these would have created chances to claw back the deficit. Instead we went ragged with everyone (McKernan in particular) running anywhere and leaving gaps all over the place. Suddenly everyone wanted to attack and just like Cork last year we left gaping holes to be exploited and allowed the opposition to humiliate us

[whitegoodman]

On Saturday I was talking to an Armagh Minor's coach, He said "Down could win if they keep their discipline but they probably won't. Down are well known for losing discipline under-pressure. All county managers know that and look to exploit it. It was something that was talked about before the game last year (Armagh first-round)"

Yes I agree there were some panic substitutions on Sunday and the sideline choices did not help. But I really think the management can not be blamed. They clearly sent the team out with a plan which was to hold Donegal, Prevent attacks and space. In possession there was two tactics. If it is turnover ball inside our 45 then the strategy was to hit fast ball to Coulter and Laverty. If it was break ball around midfield then the strategy was to run at the Donegal defence laying the ball off before the challenge to gain territory. To push Donegal right back and to create a line of red around the scoring zone.

This worked well in the first half and if we had stuck to it then it would have kept us in the game right to the end. But the team went ragged. When the second goal went in and Donegal had their tails up Down should have put 13 men behind the ball, filled the space and totally prevented scores. We would certainly have got turn overs and some of these would have created chances to claw back the deficit. Instead we went ragged with everyone (McKernan in particular) running anywhere and leaving gaps all over the place. Suddenly everyone wanted to attack and just like Cork last year we left gaping holes to be exploited and allowed the opposition to humiliate us

Agree with all of this, we were like an under 12 team in the last 20 mins with every player running after the ball, hard to watch.  We lack on field leaders other than Ambrose who can see these things happening.

[whitegoodman]

Just to note as far as I am aware Gerard McCartan has left the panel, was playing tonight.

Why I wonder? 

I have my suspicions but I am not going to go into them on here.

[snoopdog]

On Saturday I was talking to an Armagh Minor's coach, He said "Down could win if they keep their discipline but they probably won't. Down are well known for losing discipline under-pressure. All county managers know that and look to exploit it. It was something that was talked about before the game last year (Armagh first-round)"

Yes I agree there were some panic substitutions on Sunday and the sideline choices did not help. But I really think the management can not be blamed. They clearly sent the team out with a plan which was to hold Donegal, Prevent attacks and space. In possession there was two tactics. If it is turnover ball inside our 45 then the strategy was to hit fast ball to Coulter and Laverty. If it was break ball around midfield then the strategy was to run at the Donegal defence laying the ball off before the challenge to gain territory. To push Donegal right back and to create a line of red around the scoring zone.

This worked well in the first half and if we had stuck to it then it would have kept us in the game right to the end. But the team went ragged. When the second goal went in and Donegal had their tails up Down should have put 13 men behind the ball, filled the space and totally prevented scores. We would certainly have got turn overs and some of these would have created chances to claw back the deficit. Instead we went ragged with everyone (McKernan in particular) running anywhere and leaving gaps all over the place. Suddenly everyone wanted to attack and just like Cork last year we left gaping holes to be exploited and allowed the opposition to humiliate us

Agree with all of this, we were like an under 12 team in the last 20 mins with every player running after the ball, hard to watch.  We lack on field leaders other than Ambrose who can see these things happening.

I also agree with most of this but if this occurs then surely it is the managements fault? how can they not control the palyers on the pitch. Jim McGuinness doesnt have an issue with his players not following his methods. Where would defeat on saturday leave this management team? i would assume it would be the end.

[Ed Hardy]

Dundrum beat Aghaderg tonight in Ballyvarley to secure promotion to the new Division 2 for the 2013 season with 4 games to play.

Did they win well?
I assume McCommiskey was the star of the show again?
how down could have done with a player of his ability yesterday. I dont know what McCartan was playing at with him.

What are you talking about? it was his choice not to play for Down this year...

[PAULD123]

On Saturday I was talking to an Armagh Minor's coach, He said "Down could win if they keep their discipline but they probably won't. Down are well known for losing discipline under-pressure. All county managers know that and look to exploit it. It was something that was talked about before the game last year (Armagh first-round)"......

Agree with all of this, we were like an under 12 team in the last 20 mins with every player running after the ball, hard to watch.  We lack on field leaders other than Ambrose who can see these things happening.

I also agree with most of this but if this occurs then surely it is the managements fault? how can they not control the palyers on the pitch. Jim McGuinness doesnt have an issue with his players not following his methods. Where would defeat on saturday leave this management team? i would assume it would be the end.

Snoopdog, firstly lets not talk about defeat on Saturday. Let's talk about beating a third division side who have only had to beat Offaly, Wexford and Antrim to get here.

As for the management controlling the players. The management can plan and prepare the players. They can tell them exactly what they want them to do. They can give the clearest instructions in the world. But the management are not out on the pitch. What is your theory exactly how CAN they control the players once they are on the pitch - that is precisely the one time they are not in control. After all the preparation is done it is up to the players to be disciplined enough to stick to the game plan. You ask why McGuinness has not got this problem, the answer is because of the players. They have chosen to keep their discipline and to stick to the plan. They stick to it even when things are looking bad. It is down to the players only.

You could see on Sunday the management had clearly sent the team out with instructions and had prepared a system to play the game. For the first half it worked excellently. But in the second half the team went ragged. You can hardly say anyone told them to do that? They did not need Rooney, Garvey or even Hughes, the players lined out were good enough as shown for the first half. Team selection is a minor issue for us. The major issue is having 15 players on the field who collectively agree to play to one system, who concentrate for 70 minutes, and who work together to follow the instructions given to them. Otherwise you could bring back Marty, Caolan, McComiskey, or whoever you like and we would still lose.

[whitegoodman]

On Saturday I was talking to an Armagh Minor's coach, He said "Down could win if they keep their discipline but they probably won't. Down are well known for losing discipline under-pressure. All county managers know that and look to exploit it. It was something that was talked about before the game last year (Armagh first-round)"

Yes I agree there were some panic substitutions on Sunday and the sideline choices did not help. But I really think the management can not be blamed. They clearly sent the team out with a plan which was to hold Donegal, Prevent attacks and space. In possession there was two tactics. If it is turnover ball inside our 45 then the strategy was to hit fast ball to Coulter and Laverty. If it was break ball around midfield then the strategy was to run at the Donegal defence laying the ball off before the challenge to gain territory. To push Donegal right back and to create a line of red around the scoring zone.

This worked well in the first half and if we had stuck to it then it would have kept us in the game right to the end. But the team went ragged. When the second goal went in and Donegal had their tails up Down should have put 13 men behind the ball, filled the space and totally prevented scores. We would certainly have got turn overs and some of these would have created chances to claw back the deficit. Instead we went ragged with everyone (McKernan in particular) running anywhere and leaving gaps all over the place. Suddenly everyone wanted to attack and just like Cork last year we left gaping holes to be exploited and allowed the opposition to humiliate us

Agree with all of this, we were like an under 12 team in the last 20 mins with every player running after the ball, hard to watch.  We lack on field leaders other than Ambrose who can see these things happening.

I also agree with most of this but if this occurs then surely it is the managements fault? how can they not control the palyers on the pitch. Jim McGuinness doesnt have an issue with his players not following his methods. Where would defeat on saturday leave this management team? i would assume it would be the end.

Snoop whilst we all would be very disappointed with how Sunday turned out we need to get a bit of perspective. This will be the third year in a row that we have at least reached the last 12, something we couldn't have dreamed of under the previous regime. We have also had 2 very respectable campaigns in division 1, again something we couldn't have dreamed of under the previous regime.

Whilst I'm am slightly disillusioned by Aidan orourkes role and would love to still have some of the previous selectors on board, I can see James getting at least another year given his record over the last 3 years no matter what happens on saturday. I do believe we will win on Saturday though.

Anyway who would u suggest take over?

Peter McGrath - no thanks
Frank Dawson - no thanks

[lucan]

havn;t read all the posts in detail .but would point out the basic problen with down is their lack of physicality. can;t compete with the big boys and this was very evident in the second half when donegal players broke tackles so easly run through the middle and left the backs so exposed . A big good one will always beat a small good one .Why can;t wee james see this.?

[Pangurban]

As we head into next year Down football is in a bad place, facing a raft of retirements, no suitable replacements coming through, and a Manager who can read the writing on the Wall, and may not wish to continue. I hope he does, as he done reasonably well with limited resources. With little success at Minor or U21 level, where are the players going to come from over the next couple of years. Standards in club football are declining, and at the moment there are no players in any club with potential who are not already in the County panel. Realistically it is unlikely we can retain Div 1 status. Do the Co.Board have a plan or long term strategy. Since they have never produced one over the past 30 years, i would not be looking for succour from that quarter. Any ideas anyone