Down Club Hurling & Football

[alba2]

Down Senior training squad were well beaten last night by a much fitter, faster and stronger Kilcoo side in Eoghain Rua Pairc.

Down team boasted only Kalum King (played at full foward) and Aidan Carr (centre half foward) in their starting 15 while Conor Laverty and Aidan Brannigan played for their home club. Ill try my best and list the team below:

1. Mickey McAlister (banbridge)
2. ?
3. Peter Turley (D'pattick
4. Eamon  (Clonduff)
5. David McKibben (Bryansford
6. John McCarthty (L'island)
7. Keith Quinn (Mayobridge)
8. ?
9. ?
10. Arthur McConville (Clonduff)
11. Aidan Carr (Clonduff)
12. Timmy Hanna (Bryansford)
13. Marcus Miskelly (Darragh Cross)
14. Kallum King (Bryansford)
15. Ross McGarry (Warrenpoint)

Final Score: Down 1-6 Kilcoo 2-7

Good to see Aidan Carr started... That will keep Ross happy anyhow!!!!!!!
Wonder how many of them names will we see come league or championship tho?? Need a few to freshen up things in the panel - just hope some of the above have the committment for it.  That lad Mc Kibbin from the ford is a good lad as is Timmy Hanna.  Arthur Mc Conville - are you serious - James should have went to the u21 game the other day between Clonduff and Mayobridge - Mc Conville was totally outclassed in every position he was sent to.  Not now or never will be a county footballer... Keith Quinn - over rated and is still available for u21s this year and Ross Mc Garry - does he even play for the point anymore - must have stayed in the single figures for games this season.....

[6th sam]

The acfl 1,2,3,4 are adult leagues. It is all about promotion and relegation, introducing a shield for the bottom half of the divisions is bullshit. Thats alright to keep the u10s interested and let them all go home with a medal. A shield cup for finishing in the bottom half of the league is patronising and any self respecting footballer would be embarrassed to win it.

I don't feel that would be the opinion in those clubs who may end up in that position.I imagine that Aughlisnafin might be delighted to claim a Div 3 shield title as a stepping stone to further progress,in much the same way as Dromara claimed an EDRFL title in the 80s,before eventually going on to play SFC.

[6th sam]

I have criticised the administration of div 3 this year, not the structures. The last 5 or 6 games were never allocated a date to be played at the start of the year. Regardless of what format you have, there has to be a schedule to adhere to. I argued the leagues should have started earlier and the July holiday should be shorter.An earlier start to 1 league is impractical,but I agree that the July break should be 2weeks maximum.The div 3 structure of 22league games ,2 playoffs and championship games has proved too much,regardless of administration.
There are teams in div 2 who regard themselves as unfortunate not to be in div 1. To argue that bredagh are too good for div 4 is crazy, if they had to have won the league at a canter and then lost in some play off system I would agree with you but that wasnt the case. There are 3 teams in div 3 well ahead of the chasing pack, do you think these 3 teams should all be promoted as well? I feel genuinely sorry for Bredagh,they are consigned to at least another year in Div 4,having been unbeaten all year in league and championship,apart from losses to Saul and Drumaness in tight games. 
We have four competitive (div 4??) divisions for both promotion and relegation, two up and two down, a simple and effective (not in many people's opinion) format, there is no need to complicate  things.The county board's proposals if anything simplify the league structures further,as they will allow the league to be completed on schedule regardless of Hurling,AI senior or minor runs,or Ulster JFC,IFC campaigns.I would agree with marsbar that the debate on these club structures has provoked plenty of thoughtful comments,hopefully we will get club structures that will allow all clubs in Down to meet their potential,both as a team,and also in terms of developing county players.The next Mickey Linden could in theory come from any club in Down,I feel that the county board and Div 3/4 Clubs in particular have a responsibility to ensure that every potential county player gets an opportunity to reach that potential,without having to move to another club

[/b]

[ardtole]

I have criticised the administration of div 3 this year, not the structures. The last 5 or 6 games were never allocated a date to be played at the start of the year. Regardless of what format you have, there has to be a schedule to adhere to. I argued the leagues should have started earlier and the July holiday should be shorter.An earlier start to 1 league is impractical,but I agree that the July break should be 2weeks maximum.The div 3 structure of 22league games ,2 playoffs and championship games has proved too much,regardless of administration.
There are teams in div 2 who regard themselves as unfortunate not to be in div 1. To argue that bredagh are too good for div 4 is crazy, if they had to have won the league at a canter and then lost in some play off system I would agree with you but that wasnt the case. There are 3 teams in div 3 well ahead of the chasing pack, do you think these 3 teams should all be promoted as well? I feel genuinely sorry for Bredagh,they are consigned to at least another year in Div 4,having been unbeaten all year in league and championship,apart from losses to Saul and Drumaness in tight games. 
We have four competitive (div 4??) divisions for both promotion and relegation, two up and two down, a simple and effective (not in many people's opinion) format, there is no need to complicate  things.The county board's proposals if anything simplify the league structures further,as they will allow the league to be completed on schedule regardless of Hurling,AI senior or minor runs,or Ulster JFC,IFC campaigns.I would agree with marsbar that the debate on these club structures has provoked plenty of thoughtful comments,hopefully we will get club structures that will allow all clubs in Down to meet their potential,both as a team,and also in terms of developing county players.The next Mickey Linden could in theory come from any club in Down,I feel that the county board and Div 3/4 Clubs in particular have a responsibility to ensure that every potential county player gets an opportunity to reach that potential,without having to move to another club

[/b]

The leagues didnt start until mid april, they were probably the last leagues in Ireland to start, there is no reason why they couldnt start a month earlier. If bredagh lost to both saul and drumness then they would get hammered in most div 3 games. (Iv a feeling they drew with bright or won narrowly  which wouldnt inspire confidence either) Both these teams struggled in div 3 the previous year, particullary drumaness.
I think the leagues are set up correctly, there is a distinct step up in standard between each division, which would indicate that  most teams are in their correct league.

[6th sam]

Ardtole,
I understand your frustration,and I have to admit that as recently as 2-3 years ago I held a similar view.However persuasive arguments by the likes of wobbler,have changed my perspective on this.
The reason why the league starts late is that most of february ,march are unavailable due to NFL and Sigerson,the late nights dont start until the end of March,And Good Friday & Easter Sunday have always been unavailablle for fixtures.Then there is the Ulster and AI u21 series to worry about.Therefore,we have the April start up,on the first friday night available.
Apart from the fixture logjam preventing an earlier start,few clubs with single pitches want to risk damaging their pitch for the season ahead with a high match/training load in Feb/Mar when the pitches are most vulnerable due to the weather.
This is another reason why I would be loathe to criticise county board,as they have to factor in all clubs and circumstances ,as opposed to worrying about 1 club, like most of us.

Clubs in Down should gear for a 7 month playing season from early April to early November.The challenge is to fit in a fixture schedule into this season allowing for all eventualities.The county board's proposals are an attempt to do this,and they should be congratulated for that.I feel that they should also aspire to extending their rigid fixture plan ,(which is excellent up until August,)into Sept/oct/nov,and introduce a cut-off date,to allow all clubs to plan for the year ahead.I think that is one area on which we could all agree.
The real attraction of the championship proposals is that all SFC clubs can now plan to have meaningful matches on all but 3 pre-arranged weekends(AI final weekend?,SFC semis,and SFC finals), in the months of August September,October.I would like to see this system eventually rolled out to IFC,JFC if it proves a success.

[ardtole]

Im not a bit frustrated 6th sam. I just believe that that the way the four leagues are currently structured are correct, and any team that is talented enough and willing enough will prosper. Similarily, clubs that are not maximising their potential will struggle. I didnt agree with all of wobblers arguements either, I feel fixtures could go ahead on sunday afternoons in march, particulary div 3, which has 4 extra fixtures to play. A good few of the nfl games are now played under lights on a sat evening so they wouldnt interfere with a full programme of fixtures. I am confident that last seasons mistakes will not be replicated and I hope league and championship structures are left untouched as otherwise I think club football in Down is pretty well run.

[DownFanatic]

I agree with Ardtole. Leave the League and Championships well alone. I personally think that our Leagues and Championships are very well organised and a lot of credit has to go to Sean Rooney who does a great job. Apart from the odd situation (Division 3 this year) everything generally runs ok.

[east down gael]

while not agreeing completely with the new proposals,the county board are right to try and shake up the basement division in down football.the only meaningful games for saul,drumaness and bredagh this year were amongst each other.the same will more than likely be the case next year with bredagh,mitchells and dundrum.looking at it from the point of view of these three clubs,it is disheartening to have to spend a year playing 80% of your matches against uncompetitive opposition.from the point of view of the other clubs it isnt much better as they dont realistically have a chance of promtion.its similar to the situation in the nhl div2,were each year you have two of the 'stronger' hurling counties fighting for one promotion place.its not an ideal situation.if the two divisions were mixed,would it possibly encourage the div4 teams to improve standards as they face stiffer opposition?

[6th sam]

Im not a bit frustrated 6th sam. I just believe that that the way the four leagues are currently structured are correct, and any team that is talented enough and willing enough will prosper. Similarily, clubs that are not maximising their potential will struggle. I didnt agree with all of wobblers arguements either, I feel fixtures could go ahead on sunday afternoons in march, particulary div 3, which has 4 extra fixtures to play. A good few of the nfl games are now played under lights on a sat evening so they wouldnt interfere with a full programme of fixtures. I am confident that last seasons mistakes will not be replicated and I hope league and championship structures are left untouched as otherwise I think club football in Down is pretty well run.

It has been well established that clubs with county players are not keen to start the season on the back foot,with starred games.
The March games  would have to be starred,so they're a non runner going forward,as I think nobody would agree with players who have played on a saturday night for the county,turning out for the club next day.
Everybody accepts that our club structures aren't bad-but that's mainly because they have developed over the years, thanks to well thought out improvements from an OBJECTIVE county board.Every previous change was met with resistance,by some posters from INDIVIDUAL clubs,but when eventually passed,they have all proved to be beneficial,in my opinion.

[marsbarkid]

The acfl 1,2,3,4 are adult leagues. It is all about promotion and relegation, introducing a shield for the bottom half of the divisions is bullshit. Thats alright to keep the u10s interested and let them all go home with a medal. A shield cup for finishing in the bottom half of the league is patronising and any self respecting footballer would be embarrassed to win it.

Ardtole i find your outright dismissal of the 'Shield' idea patronising to say the least, in my opinion the idea of a chance to win any sort of silverwear at all should be embraced by any player of any age or standard. Indeed the senior players of your own club have demonstrated this with their exemplary record in the Connolly Cup. At the risk of sounding pedantic, the East Down Reserve League is also an adult league where this year the 'Cup' + 'Shield format were in operation after 1 round of games.
If anyone looks through my posts on this topic they will realise i'm not on here championing the County Board's proposals, just engaging in some debate in how they can be modified + improved upon!
I would be happy enough for the 4 divisions to stay as they are, but(correct me if i'm wrong) unfortunately with delegates from all clubs in all 4 divisions voting on the proposals Re-Div3/4 restructuring, it is more likely (in my opinion) that some version of it will be pushed through. If it was just the delegates representing Div3+4 clubs voting on their own future set up i'm sure at least 80% would vote for the current set up to be retained.
I have said all i'm going to say on this topic now and await with interest the outcome of the vote on all the proposals, hopefully they can keep most clubs happy!

[ardtole]

The reason we have done so well in the connolly cup is, we are the only intermediate club that regulary took part in it. (bar dundrum for a couple of years). Most of them years we were in the playoffs for promotion in div 3, so no disrespect to ballykinlar, bright etc we were way too good for them. Personally, I would have pulled out of, it cost us dearly over the years through suspensions and injuries. Unfortunately for us, due to immigration etc we are nowhere near as strong as 3 or 4 years ago and we are probably a lot closer to junior football at present than a competitive intermediate team.
I may have picked up the shield cup idea wrongly. I was under the impression it was proposed for all 4 divisions which I would disagree with, as there is relegation in the first 3 divisions. If it is just for div 4 I would wholeheartedly agree with it, Ardglass spent many a year in div 4 and most of them in the bottom half, so a shield would be a good idea in div 4 only.

[6th sam]

The reason we have done so well in the connolly cup is, we are the only intermediate club that regulary took part in it. (bar dundrum for a couple of years). Most of them years we were in the playoffs for promotion in div 3, so no disrespect to ballykinlar, bright etc we were way too good for them. Personally, I would have pulled out of, it cost us dearly over the years through suspensions and injuries. Unfortunately for us, due to immigration etc we are nowhere near as strong as 3 or 4 years ago and we are probably a lot closer to junior football at present than a competitive intermediate team.
I may have picked up the shield cup idea wrongly. I was under the impression it was proposed for all 4 divisions which I would disagree with, as there is relegation in the first 3 divisions. If it is just for div 4 I would wholeheartedly agree with it, Ardglass spent many a year in div 4 and most of them in the bottom half, so a shield would be a good idea in div 4 only.

Agree totally,Ardtole.This Shield suggestion is only necessary in the lowest division.The top 2 divisions should remain the same.

[marsbarkid]

The reason we have done so well in the connolly cup is, we are the only intermediate club that regulary took part in it. (bar dundrum for a couple of years). Most of them years we were in the playoffs for promotion in div 3, so no disrespect to ballykinlar, bright etc we were way too good for them. Personally, I would have pulled out of, it cost us dearly over the years through suspensions and injuries. Unfortunately for us, due to immigration etc we are nowhere near as strong as 3 or 4 years ago and we are probably a lot closer to junior football at present than a competitive intermediate team.
I may have picked up the shield cup idea wrongly. I was under the impression it was proposed for all 4 divisions which I would disagree with, as there is relegation in the first 3 divisions. If it is just for div 4 I would wholeheartedly agree with it, Ardglass spent many a year in div 4 and most of them in the bottom half, so a shield would be a good idea in div 4 only.

Agree totally,Ardtole.This Shield suggestion is only necessary in the lowest division.The top 2 divisions should remain the same.

Agreed  , the lowest division only, whatever it may be after the meeting next week.

[charlieTully]

Down Senior training squad were well beaten last night by a much fitter, faster and stronger Kilcoo side in Eoghain Rua Pairc.

Down team boasted only Kalum King (played at full foward) and Aidan Carr (centre half foward) in their starting 15 while Conor Laverty and Aidan Brannigan played for their home club. Ill try my best and list the team below:

1. Mickey McAlister (banbridge)
2. ?
3. Peter Turley (D'pattick
4. Eamon  (Clonduff)
5. David McKibben (Bryansford
6. John McCarthty (L'island)
7. Keith Quinn (Mayobridge)
8. ?
9. ?
10. Arthur McConville (Clonduff)
11. Aidan Carr (Clonduff)
12. Timmy Hanna (Bryansford)
13. Marcus Miskelly (Darragh Cross)
14. Kallum King (Bryansford)
15. Ross McGarry (Warrenpoint)

Final Score: Down 1-6 Kilcoo 2-7

Good to see Aidan Carr started... That will keep Ross happy anyhow!!!!!!!
Wonder how many of them names will we see come league or championship tho?? Need a few to freshen up things in the panel - just hope some of the above have the committment for it.  That lad Mc Kibbin from the ford is a good lad as is Timmy Hanna.  Arthur Mc Conville - are you serious - James should have went to the u21 game the other day between Clonduff and Mayobridge - Mc Conville was totally outclassed in every position he was sent to.  Not now or never will be a county footballer... Keith Quinn - over rated and is still available for u21s this year and Ross Mc Garry - does he even play for the point anymore - must have stayed in the single figures for games this season.....

bit harsh on McConville he had an outstanding championship for clonduff.

[alba2]

Down Senior training squad were well beaten last night by a much fitter, faster and stronger Kilcoo side in Eoghain Rua Pairc.

Down team boasted only Kalum King (played at full foward) and Aidan Carr (centre half foward) in their starting 15 while Conor Laverty and Aidan Brannigan played for their home club. Ill try my best and list the team below:

1. Mickey McAlister (banbridge)
2. ?
3. Peter Turley (D'pattick
4. Eamon  (Clonduff)
5. David McKibben (Bryansford
6. John McCarthty (L'island)
7. Keith Quinn (Mayobridge)
8. ?
9. ?
10. Arthur McConville (Clonduff)
11. Aidan Carr (Clonduff)
12. Timmy Hanna (Bryansford)
13. Marcus Miskelly (Darragh Cross)
14. Kallum King (Bryansford)
15. Ross McGarry (Warrenpoint)

Final Score: Down 1-6 Kilcoo 2-7

Good to see Aidan Carr started... That will keep Ross happy anyhow!!!!!!!
Wonder how many of them names will we see come league or championship tho?? Need a few to freshen up things in the panel - just hope some of the above have the committment for it.  That lad Mc Kibbin from the ford is a good lad as is Timmy Hanna.  Arthur Mc Conville - are you serious - James should have went to the u21 game the other day between Clonduff and Mayobridge - Mc Conville was totally outclassed in every position he was sent to.  Not now or never will be a county footballer... Keith Quinn - over rated and is still available for u21s this year and Ross Mc Garry - does he even play for the point anymore - must have stayed in the single figures for games this season.....

bit harsh on McConville he had an outstanding championship for clonduff.

But my point is - is he a county standard player.. If not then he should not be there..... Can he compete with King, Rodgers, Mc Ardle, fitzpatrick (even tho he is gone for the minute) for a midfield slot or with anyone in the full forward line. No imo he cant.  Good club championship means little in the big picture.  |The teams that went out in the early rounds of the cship will still have a fair quota of players and rightly so...