Down Club Hurling & Football

[6th sam]

Could we not play the league games from a thursday til a sunday - play a couple from devision one, two, three and four each day and that way if kilcoo or burren or longstone cant fulfill their fixture on the evening they are supposed to - they have three other days to get it played over that weekend and if they dont - the other team gets the points.  play thurs one week, fri next week, then sat then sunday then back til thurs etc. some teams might play on a particular day more often than others - but next season correct that so that they dont.  This would also stop clubs using too many senior players in seconds games and might level out that league as well.  I seen the league final and Kilcoos team was littered with senior players and there is no excuse for that as they have loads of lads at present and some simply must be getting no football... Also it would give ya a chance to get around games at the weekend. at present you get to go watch one game or maybe two at the weekend and thats it - 4 would be good and all top quality...

I would imagine that would lead to more chaos-what about other fixtures outside of senior football ,eg under 16s on thursday night?
Fixture wise we are not far wrong,and better than most counties.Sean Rooney in my opinion does a superb job,he has to keep so many interests happy and has a good handling on fixtures.It is the system that creates difficulties,but also  I'm not sure some of the changes suggested here are workable.The recent changes in the league reduced Div 1 and 2 to 10 teams,and some clubs are only getting 19 games,but we are still playing football in November,and probably December.
In Div 3 Kilclief have a minumum of 6,maximum of 8 fixtures still to play.None of the participating teams flagged up this problem when the fixtures came out for approval,so we can hardly blame Sean and CCC for that.
In Div 4 the restructuring of the leagues effectively dropped  Div 3 standard teams into the lower tier.The 3 teams that were relegated from Div 3 last year were all unbeaten against all other Div 4 teams,handing out mostly heavy defeats,and demoralising teams to an extent that some later games weren't played.

Could the system below work:

Two distinct competitions in each of 3 grades,Senior,Intermediate,Junior:
1.Prestigious round robin league and championship competition:matches only played when county players available.(Heiniken Cup)

2.Slightly less prestigious league:all matches proceed regardless of county committments.(Magniers League)

1.16 teams at Senior level,2 round robin groups of 8 teams(seeded),play each other once,then top 4 in one section play other section top 4 in SFC "A" championship qf,while bottom 4 play similarly for SFC "B" Championship.The 4 quarter final losers having to play each other for seeding places in next years championship,with the bottom 2 placed teams regraded IFC next year.This gives a minumum of 9,maximum of 10 games with county players each year,in this "Heinikin cup" competition alone.County players can of course also play in "Magniers" league if county committments allow.

2.16 teams in Division 1,play each other once,15 games,top 4 semi final league playoffs,bottom 4 semi-final relegation playoffs.



Benefits:
Club football proceeds regardless of county football-regular football for club players,pressure off county players.Fringe county players can also be released to play in these fixtures if appropriate,and all county players free to play in these games,when fixtures allow,or their All-Ireland campaign finishes.Also this could allow club football to start late March.

minimum of 11 home gates for each club

no long delays waiting on fixtures to be played,ie Kilcoo waiting weeks on competitive match this year

all clubs playing each fixture date,with the exception of league or championship semis and finals if they dont qualify.

all club football completed by county finals weekend,3rd weekend in October to allow championship winners to concentrate on Ulster,or players to go to international rules, and all other clubs,to have a firm close season.

less pressure on club and other pitches when weather poor

There also can be flexibility applied to round robin groups so that,in the event of a prolonged All Ireland run,the round robin groups could be reduced to 4 groups of 4.

All matches competitive,No "dead rubber games" as league,and also round robin position confers seeding advantage the following year.

Every fixture can be set in stone at start of year,specific cut off dates for league,round robin competitions must be adhered to, allowing players and management to plan accordingly

[DownFanatic]

Could we not play the league games from a thursday til a sunday - play a couple from devision one, two, three and four each day and that way if kilcoo or burren or longstone cant fulfill their fixture on the evening they are supposed to - they have three other days to get it played over that weekend and if they dont - the other team gets the points.  play thurs one week, fri next week, then sat then sunday then back til thurs etc. some teams might play on a particular day more often than others - but next season correct that so that they dont.  This would also stop clubs using too many senior players in seconds games and might level out that league as well.  I seen the league final and Kilcoos team was littered with senior players and there is no excuse for that as they have loads of lads at present and some simply must be getting no football... Also it would give ya a chance to get around games at the weekend. at present you get to go watch one game or maybe two at the weekend and thats it - 4 would be good and all top quality...

I would imagine that would lead to more chaos-what about other fixtures outside of senior football ,eg under 16s on thursday night?
Fixture wise we are not far wrong,and better than most counties.Sean Rooney in my opinion does a superb job,he has to keep so many interests happy and has a good handling on fixtures.It is the system that creates difficulties,but also  I'm not sure some of the changes suggested here are workable.The recent changes in the league reduced Div 1 and 2 to 10 teams,and some clubs are only getting 19 games,but we are still playing football in November,and probably December.
In Div 3 Kilclief have a minumum of 6,maximum of 8 fixtures still to play.None of the participating teams flagged up this problem when the fixtures came out for approval,so we can hardly blame Sean and CCC for that.
In Div 4 the restructuring of the leagues effectively dropped  Div 3 standard teams into the lower tier.The 3 teams that were relegated from Div 3 last year were all unbeaten against all other Div 4 teams,handing out mostly heavy defeats,and demoralising teams to an extent that some later games weren't played.

Could the system below work:

Two distinct competitions in each of 3 grades,Senior,Intermediate,Junior:
1.Prestigious round robin league and championship competition:matches only played when county players available.(Heiniken Cup)

2.Slightly less prestigious league:all matches proceed regardless of county committments.(Magniers League)

1.16 teams at Senior level,2 round robin groups of 8 teams(seeded),play each other once,then top 4 in one section play other section top 4 in SFC "A" championship qf,while bottom 4 play similarly for SFC "B" Championship.The 4 quarter final losers having to play each other for seeding places in next years championship,with the bottom 2 placed teams regraded IFC next year.This gives a minumum of 9,maximum of 10 games with county players each year,in this "Heinikin cup" competition alone.County players can of course also play in "Magniers" league if county committments allow.

2.16 teams in Division 1,play each other once,15 games,top 4 semi final league playoffs,bottom 4 semi-final relegation playoffs.



Benefits:
Club football proceeds regardless of county football-regular football for club players,pressure off county players.Fringe county players can also be released to play in these fixtures if appropriate,and all county players free to play in these games,when fixtures allow,or their All-Ireland campaign finishes.Also this could allow club football to start late March.

minimum of 11 home gates for each club

no long delays waiting on fixtures to be played,ie Kilcoo waiting weeks on competitive match this year

all clubs playing each fixture date,with the exception of league or championship semis and finals if they dont qualify.

all club football completed by county finals weekend,3rd weekend in October to allow championship winners to concentrate on Ulster,or players to go to international rules, and all other clubs,to have a firm close season.

less pressure on club and other pitches when weather poor

There also can be flexibility applied to round robin groups so that,in the event of a prolonged All Ireland run,the round robin groups could be reduced to 4 groups of 4.

All matches competitive,No "dead rubber games" as league,and also round robin position confers seeding advantage the following year.

Every fixture can be set in stone at start of year,specific cut off dates for league,round robin competitions must be adhered to, allowing players and management to plan accordingly

6 Sams, Division 4 is there for a reason and the teams that are in it are there for a reason. By re-structuring the Leagues and taking some of the stronger teams out of Division 4 just so as the weaker teams don't get hammered now and again is ridiculous. Down's CCC has absolutely no obligation to change league structures just to stop weak teams taking the odd hammering.

Your suggestion of a SFC 'B' would not work. In essence what would winning a SFC 'B' mean to the likes of Kilcoo or Rostrevor etc. It would be a sham of a competition.

[6th sam]

Division 4 is there for a reason and the teams that are in it are there for a reason. By re-structuring the Leagues and taking some of the stronger teams out of Division 4 just so as the weaker teams don't get hammered now and again is ridiculous. Down's CCC has absolutely no obligation to change league structures just to stop weak teams taking the odd hammering.

Your suggestion of a SFC 'B' would not work. In essence what would winning a SFC 'B' mean to the likes of Kilcoo or Rostrevor etc. It would be a sham of a competition.

The reason why I am suggesting that we look at our club football fixtures is that it is the single most frustrating issue for most GAA clubs.The four months Mid April to Mid August is  great with possibly the controversial exception of starred fixtures,(including the planned two weak break).After August the unpredictability of fixtures is an absolute disaster and I would argue that it is a very important factor in burnout/demotivation of players/management.This issue is particularly relevant for family men or those who do shift work.

The proposed SFC "B" championship shouldn't be viewed as a  "deal breaker" under this proposed system,it  is what it is,and whereas Kilcoo,Burren etc are unlikely to get excited about it,it keeps more clubs playing weekly games in August/September/October than the current system whereby most clubs are twiddling their thumbs,waiting on Tuesdays Irish News each week to see if they are playing or not.
The concept of "B" and even "C" Championships at underage level has proved a resounding success,why wouldn't it work at Senior level

[wehatepauly2]

Alba2 I think that idea might work,maybe a wee bit confusing to some but it could work, I'd like to see something like that take off,if it works then that's great of not then at least we tried.you should get yourself a job with the county board,push them ejits on abit

[here comes 6]

Could we not play the league games from a thursday til a sunday - play a couple from devision one, two, three and four each day and that way if kilcoo or burren or longstone cant fulfill their fixture on the evening they are supposed to - they have three other days to get it played over that weekend and if they dont - the other team gets the points.  play thurs one week, fri next week, then sat then sunday then back til thurs etc. some teams might play on a particular day more often than others - but next season correct that so that they dont.  This would also stop clubs using too many senior players in seconds games and might level out that league as well.  I seen the league final and Kilcoos team was littered with senior players and there is no excuse for that as they have loads of lads at present and some simply must be getting no football... Also it would give ya a chance to get around games at the weekend. at present you get to go watch one game or maybe two at the weekend and thats it - 4 would be good and all top quality...

I would imagine that would lead to more chaos-what about other fixtures outside of senior football ,eg under 16s on thursday night?
Fixture wise we are not far wrong,and better than most counties.Sean Rooney in my opinion does a superb job,he has to keep so many interests happy and has a good handling on fixtures.It is the system that creates difficulties,but also  I'm not sure some of the changes suggested here are workable.The recent changes in the league reduced Div 1 and 2 to 10 teams,and some clubs are only getting 19 games,but we are still playing football in November,and probably December.
In Div 3 Kilclief have a minumum of 6,maximum of 8 fixtures still to play.None of the participating teams flagged up this problem when the fixtures came out for approval,so we can hardly blame Sean and CCC for that.
In Div 4 the restructuring of the leagues effectively dropped  Div 3 standard teams into the lower tier.The 3 teams that were relegated from Div 3 last year were all unbeaten against all other Div 4 teams,handing out mostly heavy defeats,and demoralising teams to an extent that some later games weren't played.

Could the system below work:

Two distinct competitions in each of 3 grades,Senior,Intermediate,Junior:
1.Prestigious round robin league and championship competition:matches only played when county players available.(Heiniken Cup)

2.Slightly less prestigious league:all matches proceed regardless of county committments.(Magniers League)

1.16 teams at Senior level,2 round robin groups of 8 teams(seeded),play each other once,then top 4 in one section play other section top 4 in SFC "A" championship qf,while bottom 4 play similarly for SFC "B" Championship.The 4 quarter final losers having to play each other for seeding places in next years championship,with the bottom 2 placed teams regraded IFC next year.This gives a minumum of 9,maximum of 10 games with county players each year,in this "Heinikin cup" competition alone.County players can of course also play in "Magniers" league if county committments allow.

2.16 teams in Division 1,play each other once,15 games,top 4 semi final league playoffs,bottom 4 semi-final relegation playoffs.



Benefits:
Club football proceeds regardless of county football-regular football for club players,pressure off county players.Fringe county players can also be released to play in these fixtures if appropriate,and all county players free to play in these games,when fixtures allow,or their All-Ireland campaign finishes.Also this could allow club football to start late March.

minimum of 11 home gates for each club

no long delays waiting on fixtures to be played,ie Kilcoo waiting weeks on competitive match this year

all clubs playing each fixture date,with the exception of league or championship semis and finals if they dont qualify.

all club football completed by county finals weekend,3rd weekend in October to allow championship winners to concentrate on Ulster,or players to go to international rules, and all other clubs,to have a firm close season.

less pressure on club and other pitches when weather poor

There also can be flexibility applied to round robin groups so that,in the event of a prolonged All Ireland run,the round robin groups could be reduced to 4 groups of 4.

All matches competitive,No "dead rubber games" as league,and also round robin position confers seeding advantage the following year.

Every fixture can be set in stone at start of year,specific cut off dates for league,round robin competitions must be adhered to, allowing players and management to plan accordingly

6 Sams, Division 4 is there for a reason and the teams that are in it are there for a reason. By re-structuring the Leagues and taking some of the stronger teams out of Division 4 just so as the weaker teams don't get hammered now and again is ridiculous. Down's CCC has absolutely no obligation to change league structures just to stop weak teams taking the odd hammering.

Your suggestion of a SFC 'B' would not work. In essence what would winning a SFC 'B' mean to the likes of Kilcoo or Rostrevor etc. It would be a sham of a competition.

Kilcoo would be happy to win a 'b' championship.  Like they have only 1 'a' championship in 75 or more years

[wehatepauly2]

Here comes 6 shut your mouth,slobbering on like that.kilcoo are one of the top teams in div 1 this past 10 years,championships aren't easy won but I'd say you knw dam all about winning one. Many people recognize them every year as one of the teams to beat.don't think you knw a big lot about anything

[ardtole]

Could we not play the league games from a thursday til a sunday - play a couple from devision one, two, three and four each day and that way if kilcoo or burren or longstone cant fulfill their fixture on the evening they are supposed to - they have three other days to get it played over that weekend and if they dont - the other team gets the points.  play thurs one week, fri next week, then sat then sunday then back til thurs etc. some teams might play on a particular day more often than others - but next season correct that so that they dont.  This would also stop clubs using too many senior players in seconds games and might level out that league as well.  I seen the league final and Kilcoos team was littered with senior players and there is no excuse for that as they have loads of lads at present and some simply must be getting no football... Also it would give ya a chance to get around games at the weekend. at present you get to go watch one game or maybe two at the weekend and thats it - 4 would be good and all top quality...

I would imagine that would lead to more chaos-what about other fixtures outside of senior football ,eg under 16s on thursday night?
Fixture wise we are not far wrong,and better than most counties.Sean Rooney in my opinion does a superb job,he has to keep so many interests happy and has a good handling on fixtures.It is the system that creates difficulties,but also  I'm not sure some of the changes suggested here are workable.The recent changes in the league reduced Div 1 and 2 to 10 teams,and some clubs are only getting 19 games,but we are still playing football in November,and probably December.
In Div 3 Kilclief have a minumum of 6,maximum of 8 fixtures still to play.None of the participating teams flagged up this problem when the fixtures came out for approval,so we can hardly blame Sean and CCC for that.
In Div 4 the restructuring of the leagues effectively dropped  Div 3 standard teams into the lower tier.The 3 teams that were relegated from Div 3 last year were all unbeaten against all other Div 4 teams,handing out mostly heavy defeats,and demoralising teams to an extent that some later games weren't played.

Could the system below work:

Two distinct competitions in each of 3 grades,Senior,Intermediate,Junior:
1.Prestigious round robin league and championship competition:matches only played when county players available.(Heiniken Cup)

2.Slightly less prestigious league:all matches proceed regardless of county committments.(Magniers League)

1.16 teams at Senior level,2 round robin groups of 8 teams(seeded),play each other once,then top 4 in one section play other section top 4 in SFC "A" championship qf,while bottom 4 play similarly for SFC "B" Championship.The 4 quarter final losers having to play each other for seeding places in next years championship,with the bottom 2 placed teams regraded IFC next year.This gives a minumum of 9,maximum of 10 games with county players each year,in this "Heinikin cup" competition alone.County players can of course also play in "Magniers" league if county committments allow.

2.16 teams in Division 1,play each other once,15 games,top 4 semi final league playoffs,bottom 4 semi-final relegation playoffs.



Benefits:
Club football proceeds regardless of county football-regular football for club players,pressure off county players.Fringe county players can also be released to play in these fixtures if appropriate,and all county players free to play in these games,when fixtures allow,or their All-Ireland campaign finishes.Also this could allow club football to start late March.

minimum of 11 home gates for each club

no long delays waiting on fixtures to be played,ie Kilcoo waiting weeks on competitive match this year

all clubs playing each fixture date,with the exception of league or championship semis and finals if they dont qualify.

all club football completed by county finals weekend,3rd weekend in October to allow championship winners to concentrate on Ulster,or players to go to international rules, and all other clubs,to have a firm close season.

less pressure on club and other pitches when weather poor

There also can be flexibility applied to round robin groups so that,in the event of a prolonged All Ireland run,the round robin groups could be reduced to 4 groups of 4.

All matches competitive,No "dead rubber games" as league,and also round robin position confers seeding advantage the following year.

Every fixture can be set in stone at start of year,specific cut off dates for league,round robin competitions must be adhered to, allowing players and management to plan accordingly

As soon as the master fixture list was released, umpire (i think) highlighted the error with div 3, it was obvious immediately there was going to be a balls up at the end of the season.

[blueannavy]

Rostrevor and clonduff 3 each at half time !

[DownFanatic]

Down ACFL Division 1 Relegation Playoff
Clonduff 1-07  Rostrevor 0-08

Rostrevor banished to Division 2. Anyone hazard a guess when was the last time they have played out of the top division?

[thewobbler]

Something clicks in my head that Rostrevor were in D2 for a season in 1996.

[Leonardo]

Feel sorry for Rostrevor keeper. Massive error for Clonduff goal. Looks like the ball blew off tee as he kicked it. Awful night for football so not much to report about

[ardtole]

Something clicks in my head that Rostrevor were in D2 for a season in 1996.

They were alrite wobbler. Ardglass spent a season in div 2 in 96 and we played rostrevor that season.

[alba2]

Are the playoffs a thing we need to move away from.  Top team in division one - champions, Bottom two relegated.  keep this for the other divisions as well.  There is gonna be the argument that the county players are missing etc - Rostrevor had no county players this year and are now relegated.... Two weeks ago they looked relatively safe - defeat against the stone and then Clonduff beating Burren last week dragged them into it big time... If bottom two go down it will stop football at the gutters time of the year.

[umpire]

Something clicks in my head that Rostrevor were in D2 for a season in 1996.

They were alrite wobbler. Ardglass spent a season in div 2 in 96 and we played rostrevor that season.

Ardglass play Rostrever in Rostrevor. i remember a 16 year old Ardglass corner forward up against Finbar Caulfield. its was a mismatch. Now not sure if Rostrevor can get out of 2nd Div next year. you have An Riocht, Loughinisland, Liatriom, Warrenpoint and Shamrocks all capable to finish in top 2.  Really feel sorry for Rostrevor with a small slice of luck they could have finished on 15points. They got 9 points on first 9 games and at that stage they knew that they need another 6 to make it to 15 points but they only got 4 in last 9 games.

[6th sam]

Are the playoffs a thing we need to move away from.  Top team in division one - champions, Bottom two relegated.  keep this for the other divisions as well.  There is gonna be the argument that the county players are missing etc - Rostrevor had no county players this year and are now relegated.... Two weeks ago they looked relatively safe - defeat against the stone and then Clonduff beating Burren last week dragged them into it big time... If bottom two go down it will stop football at the gutters time of the year.

There are so many factors to be taken into account with fixtures,and Seán Rooney's task is an almost impossible one, which he does extremely well.I think it is perfectly reasonable,all things considered to play club football until the end of  October,as this is required to give us a 7 month season.This gives a close season of two months+,a pre-season of two months+,and ready to start again in March/April,with club pitches having been rested over the winter.Finishing any earlier either means unacceptable shortening of the season,or starting earlier(February/March football would destroy club pitches for the rest of the season).We need to be careful that calls not to play matches in the gutters in October are not actually motivated by clubs not wishing to clash with the soccer season.

Our fixture plan is very good under the current system.However,I have two difficulties with the current system:
1. the glut of fixtures in the 11-12 weeks from mid April to early July.
2. the paucity of fixtures outside of those months.

Any improvement of the current system ,must not hinder the development of clubs with county players,must protect county players,and must provide more regular fixed date football for all.

Perhaps we can't improve on our current system,but it's certainly worth debating to see if there are any workable improvements out there.