Donegal v Dublin AISF 31st Aug 2014

[Sidney]

A lot of people don't like the way Donegal play so there will be a reasonable few neutrals wanting you to win.

Secretly I also think dont matter wants you to win as if you don't then it'll weaken his argument about the money.

There isn't going to be much neutral support in the stadium, especially with the minor pairing being the same. Dublin and Donegal will comfortably pack the stadium out by themselves for this one, with three-quarters of that being Dublin support.

[larryin89]

A lot of people don't like the way Donegal play so there will be a reasonable few neutrals wanting you to win.

Secretly I also think dont matter wants you to win as if you don't then it'll weaken his argument about the money.

There isn't going to be much neutral support in the stadium, especially with the minor pairing being the same. Dublin and Donegal will comfortably pack the stadium out by themselves for this one, with three-quarters of that being Dublin support.

I'm not sure it will be as big as 75/25 , nearer 60/40 .

I hope the men from the hills take up a good section of the hill.

We can moan all day about Dublin advantages, like we do as a nation about our elected reps but some stuff is on your own hands too. Go in massive numbers and roar your county on. (we let our county down last year, we were too quiet)

[screenexile]

Can't see anything but a Dublin win. Too many variables for Donegal, Mark McHugh not playing, Lacey injured, Kavanagh not enough game time, McFadden playing absolute pants all year.

Yes the system will stifle Dublin to an extent but I just think the Dubs have too many good footballers this time around. The year the Dubs beat Donegal on the way to win the All Ireland they didn't have the same calibre of player and weren't playing the same type of football as they are now, this years team would beat the Dubs of 3 years ago quite comfortably I'd suggest.

Anyway I think Dubs by about 10!

[Zulu]

In fairness I can't see any neutral support for us whatsoever. Faic/nada/ zero .......

That's a pretty comprehensive dismissal of Zulu.

I'll have a gang of non-Dubs there supporting the Dubs so you'll have few neutrals anyway.

[Zulu]

Truth be told, I don't think anyone in either Donegal or Dublin gives a rat's ass what anyone thinks.

We are both used to being unpopular by now & put it down to begrudgery from people who are secretly jealous.

You can put it down to that if you want but that isn't the reason anybody would shout against the current Donegal team.

[J70]

Truth be told, I don't think anyone in either Donegal or Dublin gives a rat's ass what anyone thinks.

We are both used to being unpopular by now & put it down to begrudgery from people who are secretly jealous.

You can put it down to that if you want but that isn't the reason anybody would shout against the current Donegal team.

So what do you want to see Zulu?

Teams going man for man,  keeping six up the field at all times,  against Dublin?

[Zulu]

J70, of course Donegal or any other team can play as they want and if I was a Donegal man I would probably want us to set up in a way that gives us the best chance to win. I can fully appreciate why Donegal folk are not bothered by the way you play but surely you can accept that neutrals might prefer to see football played as Dublin do? I'm sure you'd agree you'd prefer Donegal to be able to play as Dublin do and win titles, we all would I think. Donegal have their All Ireland, so I want to see a county like Mayo win it as they haven't won any recently. If they don't, I want to see the team that plays the best football and that is Dublin.

I don't think it will be a great day for football as a sport if Donegal set up ultra defensively and beat Dublin, it will only encourage others to believe that the way to win is not through skill development and attacking inventiveness but by filling up the scoring zone with bodies, draw your opponent in and break into the space behind them. The thing is though, others have cottoned on to that and when a team sets up ultra defensively the other team does too so what we end up with is a pass the parcel game between the two 45's.

Football is my game, I've little interest in soccer, rugby etc. and I want to see skill rather than sweat be the deciding factor in winning titles. For all the nonsense spouted here about Dublin, other counties can develop footballers as good and as athletic as most of Dublin's and if we spent less time coaching systems (I came up against a sweeper system at U12) and more time on the skills then we'd have some sport. I can't wait for Donegal against Dublin but if it was Dublin against a team that could play like they do as well as they do then I wouldn't be able to sleep until the 31st with anticipation.

Enjoy it as a Donegal man but please don't take offence if a neutral is supporting the more attractive football team.

[J70]

I'm not offended. And this is not aimed at you, but on the one hand we hear everyone say it is suicide to line up conventionally against Dublin, yet everyone whinges about blanket defense. I do object, however to your dismissal of the skill and "attacking inventiveness" required to play the way Donegal do. They don't always get it right and they tend to play conservatively, especially in the first half, but this Donegal team has played some superb attacking football, especially in the AI winning season. Just because it's on the fast break doesn't mean it lacks skill or inventiveness.  And as for your maintaining that the blanket defense forces the opposition into doing the same,  we will see if Dublin do that. But you are correct - I get much more enjoyment out of watching Donegal under McGuinness than I did under the futile conventional tactics of his predecessors. Maybe it's an Ulster thing, but I enjoy the intensity,  seeing the opposition shut down as well as seeing Donegal knock over points.

[Zulu]

Fair enough but I didn't say, or at least I didn't mean to imply Donegal lack skill, all inter county teams play with a decent level of skill. The point I was making is Dublin are Brazil 1982 (but more successful) while Donegal are a very defensive Italy. Both might be great teams but only one plays a beautiful version of the sport that everyone can enjoy.

Dublin won't mirror Donegal which is exactly why I want them to win but they won't be naive either and will get bodies back to defend when necessary but they won't have one or two up and they wouldn't play a sweeper if an opponent went out and played 15 v 15.

I firmly believe we (Irish people) have never made football the sport it can be. 'Don't mind your fancy stuff' or 'bend you shagging back' was the stock advice from many an underage coach. Dublin are changing that and if they are successful they might encourage more to express themselves rather than inhibit the opposition as a starting point.

If you're enjoying Donegal football then fair enough but while I love hard intense football, the Dubs do that but with an attacking outlook and if I'm going to jump on a bandwagon it's the Dub and Mayo ones I'm getting on.

[J70]

Oh no, I was not implying the Dubs lack intensity,  but that pre - McGuinness Donegal often did. Anyone from Donegal who suffered though Omagh 2007 (Monaghan), Croke Park 2009 (Cork) and Crossmaglen 2010 can testify to that, for starters. And also, certain games lauded for their attacking football often leave me cold, as there's lots of scores but barely a hand laid on a forward.

[muppet]

I think one of the biggest differences is that Dublin, and in particular Mayo, defend very high up the pitch. They don't concede 70 metres like Donegal did in 2011 and like many counties seem to now. All three counties defend from 1 - 15. It is just that the blanket teams retreat as soon as they lose the ball while Dublin and Mayo rarely retreat and challenge the first man to take the ball near a tackler, even if that is a corner back.

This strategy yielded a lot of goals for Mayo last year and Dublin are also very quick to score from turnovers made high up the pitch. Witness the last minute goal against Mayo in the League this year.

All three are difficult to play against, so no county manager would be bothered about how it looks. The question is are your forwards good enough to tackle Dublin, Mayo, Kerry or Donegal backs close to their own goal? Or do you not trust the forwards to tackle them there and flood 12/13 players back to create a logjam inside your own 45m line?

I think the difference is actually quite small, but it does make the game look completely different.

[Syferus]

To be honest Mayo have been anything but difficult to play against this year. It's been a rock 'em sock 'em match in almost all of Mayo's games this year.

One of the great unsolved questions is why Mayo's defence that was easily the best in the country 12 months ago now looks so porous and, frankly, feeble. It's still loaded with some of the best defenders in the game and they're hardly over the hill either.

The black card must have played a part but this level of decline in performance can't be simply from that alone.

[INDIANA]

yellow card. I certainly wouldn't want your support. You can stick it up your arse as far as I'm concerned.

What a nasty little mainín you are 

Very reasonable individual who has answered all the barbs put forward in a coherent and educated manner. Unfortunately some of the small man's syndrome is alive and well in other parts of Ireland.

[INDIANA]

Can't see anything but a Dublin win. Too many variables for Donegal, Mark McHugh not playing, Lacey injured, Kavanagh not enough game time, McFadden playing absolute pants all year.

Yes the system will stifle Dublin to an extent but I just think the Dubs have too many good footballers this time around. The year the Dubs beat Donegal on the way to win the All Ireland they didn't have the same calibre of player and weren't playing the same type of football as they are now, this years team would beat the Dubs of 3 years ago quite comfortably I'd suggest.

Anyway I think Dubs by about 10!

2011 side versus 2014 side

goalkeeper- same
full back line - two thirds
half back line - two thirds
midfield- half
half forward line - same
full forward line - two thirds

Not a huge difference. And that will give Donegal lots of hope. Donegal can't win playing like 2011 IMO.

To beat Dublin you need a high shot count and a high accuracy rating (greater then 50%). Currently Donegal have neither playing their current system. That's largely down to the players being 3 years older.

If they concede the short kickouts they'll lose. They have to gamble on their own kick-outs as well and kick the ball to midfield and contest and take the risk of leaving themselves exposed at the back. And put a premium on the breaks. They just won't score enough to win the game otherwise.

I think overall we are better then Donegal at the moment. What Donegal lack are an influx of new players. Only really Mc Nicholas has been a find. O Connor will be a really good player as well in time. Minors should provide them with a few- but they need more of that.

[DuffleKing]

Can't see anything but a Dublin win. Too many variables for Donegal, Mark McHugh not playing, Lacey injured, Kavanagh not enough game time, McFadden playing absolute pants all year.

Yes the system will stifle Dublin to an extent but I just think the Dubs have too many good footballers this time around. The year the Dubs beat Donegal on the way to win the All Ireland they didn't have the same calibre of player and weren't playing the same type of football as they are now, this years team would beat the Dubs of 3 years ago quite comfortably I'd suggest.

Anyway I think Dubs by about 10!

2011 side versus 2014 side

goalkeeper- same
full back line - two thirds
half back line - two thirds
midfield- half
half forward line - same
full forward line - two thirds

Not a huge difference. And that will give Donegal lots of hope. Donegal can't win playing like 2011 IMO.

To beat Dublin you need a high shot count and a high accuracy rating (greater then 50%). Currently Donegal have neither playing their current system. That's largely down to the players being 3 years older.

If they concede the short kickouts they'll lose. They have to gamble on their own kick-outs as well and kick the ball to midfield and contest and take the risk of leaving themselves exposed at the back. And put a premium on the breaks. They just won't score enough to win the game otherwise.

I think overall we are better then Donegal at the moment. What Donegal lack are an influx of new players. Only really Mc Nicholas has been a find. O Connor will be a really good player as well in time. Minors should provide them with a few- but they need more of that.

It's the only way they can win. Of course, its entirely possible that they just can't win.