Cork v Tipp, AI Semi Final, 17/08/2014

[imtommygunn]

Yep i agree. Sorry one step behind on sky plus.

Hickey a good analyst.

Standard of analysis so much better in the hurling.

[dowling]

Glad to see you agreeing with me tommy

[Asal Mor]

Surprised at the criticism of Callanan on here. I thought he was superb and one won a fair bit of 50/50 ball when he wasn't being fouled by O Neill. And he was the match winner again. Not sure what qualifies as an exhibition but it was he who dragged them back into it against Galway when they were 6 points down and on their way out. He took a couple of heavy knocks yesterday too, diving in for "dirty ball" so I don't get that criticism either. He has it all - lightning fast, brilliant skill and touch, powerful shot off either side and he's great in the air too.

Bonnar is a brilliant ball-winner and distributor but sometimes goes on impossible solo runs into traffic that always result in a turnover.

[Canalman]

Reckon Tipperary are the real deal this year. They have discarded the wristbands, miraculous medals and roaring and fist clenching when they get a free and are the better for it imo.

A joy to watch when they are motoring. Forwardline virtually unmarkabe when they are song.

Have reduced Dublin and Cork to quivering stuttering hurlers in recent weeks and I cannot see them being troubled by Kilkenny.

Could win it very handily as I just don't think KK are the force they were some years ago.

[AZOffaly]

Surprised at the criticism of Callanan on here. I thought he was superb and one won a fair bit of 50/50 ball when he wasn't being fouled by O Neill. And he was the match winner again. Not sure what qualifies as an exhibition but it was he who dragged them back into it against Galway when they were 6 points down and on their way out. He took a couple of heavy knocks yesterday too, diving in for "dirty ball" so I don't get that criticism either. He has it all - lightning fast, brilliant skill and touch, powerful shot off either side and he's great in the air too.

Bonnar is a brilliant ball-winner and distributor but sometimes goes on impossible solo runs into traffic that always result in a turnover.

Asal, I like Callanan, I've always felt that he got a hard time of it from Tipp fans but he is what he is. If he can play loose and in front, he will win ball, but I don't think he will win many 50-50s against a tough full back if they are dropped in on top of him. Yesterday in the first half Tipp played their corner forwards out, and tried to isolate Callanan on O'Neill. I don't think it really worked, even the goal came from a mistake by O'Neill on a crossfield pass.

If Tipp hit high balls in between JJ and Seamie Callanan, I predict JJ will win at least 85% of them. Where they could get joy, and which would suit Callinan more in my view, is if they withdraw the forwards, and then hit diagonal ball in towards the corners for Callanan to take JJ on a run. That won't suit Delaney, and will suit Callanan down to the ground.

[AZOffaly]

Reckon Tipperary are the real deal this year. They have discarded the wristbands, miraculous medals and roaring and fist clenching when they get a free and are the better for it imo.

A joy to watch when they are motoring. Forwardline virtually unmarkabe when they are song.

Have reduced Dublin and Cork to quivering stuttering hurlers in recent weeks and I cannot see them being troubled by Kilkenny.

Could win it very handily as I just don't think KK are the force they were some years ago.

Fair play Canalman, you called that right, although in my defence, when Cork were sweeping Tipp half forwards aside in the first half, their wides killed them.

I think tipp are playing very, very well from 1-9. However I still think they have huge problems in the forward line. When they cut loose they are great, but they just have far too many spells where they are swept aside.  Bubbles Dwyer and Seamus Callanan are pure scorers, and well worth their place in any side in my view. However they are not great ball winners. Gearoid Ryan and Bonner Maher are supposed to fill that role, although Ryan played far deeper on Sunday. Lar Corbett is blowing hot and cold, often in the same game, and I just don't trust him to play well against Kilkenny. He may well do so, but I've seen nothing that says he will so far this year. Finally Noel McGrath is having a bad year. He's not winning ball, and he's not scoring. By my reckoning you have 2 ball winners, 2 scorers and 2 others that are doing neither really. The problem for Tipp is who do you bring in? If Niall O'Meara gets fit he's an option. Denis Maher is a ball winner, but he has some brain farts when it comes to distribution/shooting. Young Forde has a chance, but he is raw. Eoin Kelly is gone.

With Mickey Cahill, Conor O'Mahoney and Paul Curran all on the bench, Tipp have solid options for defence. They can look at Brendan Maher and Kieran Bergin for midfield if they struggle there, but it's hard to see what obvious improvements can be made on the forwards. I'd be inclined to fire Denis Maher into the half forward line, in place of Noel McGrath (who almost always swaps around with Bonner Maher).

[GalwayBayBoy]

Cork were septic yesterday. Their touch was abysmal. Lost count of the amount of times they miscontrolled the ball under no pressure and ended up getting dispossessed and obviously their shooting was just as bad especially in the first half. Rarely seen a team look so bad after a 5 week lay off. Whatever they did in the meantime they were a long long way from match sharpness yesterday. Tipp were good in fairness but think you have to take Cork's ineptness on the day into account. Would still fancy Kilkenny in the final. They actually beat a team who played very well in their semi-final.

[Asal Mor]

Asal, I like Callanan, I've always felt that he got a hard time of it from Tipp fans but he is what he is. If he can play loose and in front, he will win ball, but I don't think he will win many 50-50s against a tough full back if they are dropped in on top of him. Yesterday in the first half Tipp played their corner forwards out, and tried to isolate Callanan on O'Neill. I don't think it really worked, even the goal came from a mistake by O'Neill on a crossfield pass.

If Tipp hit high balls in between JJ and Seamie Callanan, I predict JJ will win at least 85% of them. Where they could get joy, and which would suit Callinan more in my view, is if they withdraw the forwards, and then hit diagonal ball in towards the corners for Callanan to take JJ on a run. That won't suit Delaney, and will suit Callanan down to the ground.

I agree that the first-half high ball tactics were a disaster for Tipp and if their backs hadn't been so dominant it would have cost them, but there's not really any full-forward who can win that kind of aimless ball against a clever full-back, who'll just obstruct him like Shane O' Neill did yesterday.  I think Callanan has a bit of a rep for being flaky and soft and he has certainly underachieved until this year for the talent he has but I don't think he lacks bravery. He has the ability and the physical attributes to be the best forward in the game but I think Tipp have been very quick to bench him in past years.

[AZOffaly]

I agree that Tipp have made him a scapegoat, but I've seen a fair bit of him this past few years and I definitely think he prefers the diagonal that he can run onto. He'll win the 60-40/70-30s but I don't think he wins his fair share of 50-50s. That said, I'd always have him on that team and I've said it for a while.

[theskull1]

Tipps targeting of Callanan in the first half with the high ball in looked a very one dimensional tactic as the Cork backs swamped it every time and turned a lot of ball off it even when Callanan did (rarely) win possession. Very rarely was there a Tipp player first on the breaking ball. Callanan made hay when he dropped off O'Neill and had space to run at him/goal. In close quarters he didn't make that much good use of the ball although he made 2 superb catches and got wired in. I'd say he's lost the windy hurler tag now surely.
I think Corks performance level was so below par that it's made Tipp look much better than they are. How for instance would they have reacted if Cork had their shooting boots on in the first half? It's debatable. There's still a fragility about them that I think the cats can exploit. Gleesons puckouts and Tipps handling looked sublime it has to be said, but was enough pressure being applied to force mistakes? It's hard to know

[waterfordlad]

With everything that has happened in Cork over the last few years it would be a big ask for Cork to be at the top table at the minute.
JB has no doubt taken them on but there is def work to be done.
Who did they beat in the quarter final that year?

Waterford by a goal in Thurles.

[Roashter]

They beat Kilkenny in Thurles (was a double header with Clare v Galway)
Kilkenny had knocked out Waterford earlier

[waterfordlad]

He was talking about 2012 I think.
Cork had a complete off day on Sunday. It's easy to throw out the 5 week break and dual player issue when you lose but Kilkenny haven't had a problem with the long break and no-one was mentioning dual players problem after they won Munster. It was just a bad day for them that can't really be explained that much. It happens in sport sometimes.

[johnneycool]

Well who seen that one coming? (Other than Premier Emperor, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day)

Firstly well played Tipp and Eamon O'Shea who got it right more often than not on Sunday, ably assisted by one of the worst Cork performances seen in many's a day.
Yeah, they were nervous, made some silly decisions in the first half, but they were hurling far better than Cork, but to go in only a goal to the good at half time must have been a bit jittery with the normal train of thought being that Cork couldn't be as bad in the second half, but oh yes they were.

Firstly as already pointed out, both teams adopted the same tactic of trying to isolate the big man in a two man full forward line, Cork had the better target man in Cronin, but the ball in was terrible, especially the shot selection of Aidan Walsh, who gave the forwards sweet FA to work with and accounted for some poor wides. At the other end, Callanan wasn't so effective under the dropping ball but for the life of me Cork allowed Paudie Maher of all people a free reign and he was putting in dipping ball which the Tipp forwards were able to work with and in all fairness should have did more with in the first half and finally in the second half cut loose to run out easy victors.
It has to be said Owens gifted Cork some soft scores in the first half and made some strange decisions throughout but as the intensity of the game dropped off he got away with it.
Tipps dominance in their half backs in Bergin and Maher in particular was the platform to firstly take the pressure off their full back line and good use of the ball into the forwards ably assisted by Woodlock and Shane McGrath who were given the freedom of the park, I know the modern game is all about possession and stats, but surely there is still a place for man marking as all too often someone was putting the ball over the bar or passing with absolutely no one near them to apply pressure.
It would be very hard to believe that Kilkenny will retreat down the pitch so far as to allow their opponents total dominance of such a large part of the field, leaving whatever forwards left up there to forage against all the odds, but that's what it looked as if Cork had did.

As for Donal O'G's wee dig at all and sundry that evening on the Sunday game, picking out the dual players was unfair as a lot of the lads 100% dedicated to the hurling also had mares, so what was their excuse? At the same time if these lads are only giving 50% to hurling where are the other lads giving 100% to hurling, surely they'd be better, no?
The centre of excellence with two pitches and 5 full time coaches are valid points lost in a dig at Frank Murphys monument he all but came out and said.
Sometimes Donal lets himself down, but he knew not to direct any criticism at JBM, that's a bridge too far for Donal O'G and only the openness of Seamus Hickey alluded to what he felt were fundamental mistakes made by Cork and their management which I think we all but knew they'd made.


As for Tipp heres hoping they really have a go at Kilkenny, don't go in too defensive minded as this is not the same Kilkenny team of two years ago and the invincibility has gone from them and give us a hum dinger of a final.

[Milltown Row2]

As a manager in the past I've used the tactic of bring an extra man into defence, it was done largely to give the team confidence and not get hammered by the bigger teams in the Antrim leagues, it worked well and while we didn't win too many games the lads did gain some self belief that they could for large periods of the games compete, against the teams of our ability we did go 15 on 15.

After a while we only used this for the first half and went 15 on 15 in the second half.

If this tactic was used on me by a 'lesser' team I would always push the extra man up on theirs (as long as I had confidence on my main defender marking their main man) but allowing the other team time to pick out passes to their 2 man ff line is crazy. Not too many tactics can be used in hurling like football, the speed of the delivery into the forwards or the ability to hit long cross field passes can cut out a lot of tactics (if done right) Kilkenny's only ever tactic I ever see them do is the roving HF line and FF line where they interchange with each other and on the opposition puck outs the wing half forwards go deep looking for it or the break ball. this usually allows a short puck out, which can be dangerous