Removal of Gaza flag in Croke Park!

[dowling]

Too true, general theme from roscommon appears to be pro Israel anti occupied six. Anti IRA. My sister went with a lad from there once, he was a cnut too. Horrible shower of scuba divers.

God forbid anyone could be anti IRA.Whatever you like to think Charlie you imbecile god bless you.

No response?

[whitey]

This is fvckin comical.......God forbid someone can have a different opinion or perspective


My way or the highway around here

[haranguerer]

This is a humanitarian cause, not a political one

OK - replace "political" with "humanitarian" in my post and the same logic applies. You can't have free-for-all demonstrations or a play-it-by-ear policy. I don't think the GAA is being callous about Gaza and I don't buy the shite about not offending Sky. It's simply the only tenable policy.

It may be the same logic, but 'standing idly by' becomes more obvious, and much harder to stomach. I wouldn't like to see the day when the GAA and GAA members rejected all charitable appeals en masse because it may offend someone, or open floodgates.

[Ulick]

I have a photo on the wall here of a half time protest in Davitt Park Lurgan when the four in a row Kerry team travelled to play Armagh. The protest was in support of the prisoners taking part in the 1980 Hunger Strike. Despite open knowledge of the inhuman conditions within the gaol at the time, the GAA sent out edicts that the matter was not to be raised at any club meeting and displays of support were banned. Now I'm not saying that the GAA supporting that protest would have ensured it's success and prevented the deaths of those who died in the second Hunger Strike the following year, however more support from civic Ireland would have made it more difficult for the Brits to renege on the deal which was struck. This was all the more important because Section 32 had most of the prisoners spokespeople banned from the media. Now again we have media and civic society silent while human rights are abused in what is effectively a concentration camp in Gaza. So yes I'll be in Croke Park on Saturday to support Armagh and will be carrying a Palestinian flag to show solidarity with the people in Gaza. The faces in that photograph are becoming less recognisable as the years go on, but the one thing we all remember about that year was that the only time a prisoners spokesperson managed to get on RTE was when Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh gave 5 minutes national airtime, at half time in the Davitt Park game between Armagh and Kerry.

[Hardy]

This is a humanitarian cause, not a political one

OK - replace "political" with "humanitarian" in my post and the same logic applies. You can't have free-for-all demonstrations or a play-it-by-ear policy. I don't think the GAA is being callous about Gaza and I don't buy the shite about not offending Sky. It's simply the only tenable policy.

It may be the same logic, but 'standing idly by' becomes more obvious, and much harder to stomach. I wouldn't like to see the day when the GAA and GAA members rejected all charitable appeals en masse because it may offend someone, or open floodgates.

The GAA is only "standing idly by" on one more issue than you. How does your hierarchy of issues take precedence?

I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park. 

It's the GAA's Park. The people have to pay to get in to see games in it.

And what is the GAA if not the people Rossfan?   

The GAA is not "the people". It is the members of CLCG only. A lot of " the people" who go to support teams are in fact NOT members of the GAA and in effect have no say in how it's run or what decisions it makes at whatever level. They are of course perfectly entitled to comment or criticise those decisions but they have no say in them if they're not members.

Just for the record I think Israel is a rogue State which has built illegal settlements on illegally grabbed land, is denying basic human existence to the people of Gaza, and has committed war crimes in Gaza this summer not to mention on previous occasions and further back the massacres in Lebanon in 1982 etc.

Well good that has cleared that up then as I am a member of CLCG, so therefore should have my voice heard yes?

It seems to me that you're looking for more than having your voice heard, Aoise. You're arguing that your personal opinion should override the policy of the GAA management which, until there's reason to believe otherwise, would seem to have the support of the majority of members.

If you think otherwise, put that motion on your club AGM agenda. That's how you get your voice heard in the GAA.

[Sidney]

It is completely reasonable to say that you are a muppet.

There's enough people accusing me of being O'Neill with you claiming that I'm a duplicate account of a different poster.

Over two weeks ago and many posts ago Israel was in the right to defend itself and I still believe that.
Mr Sidney took the time to trawl through my posts over a long period on a personal ego boosting exercise to prove that I am an 'Israel supporter' through quoting me in a selective manner.
I believe the dead children in Gaza are a result of HAMAS actions and ISRAEL raections and since war crimes.

Rest assured that I didn't have to spend too much time to find those posts, which clearly show you are a supporter of Israel. Was "Hannity" good last night? Does he still have the stars over his little sheriff badge?

[haranguerer]

This is a humanitarian cause, not a political one

OK - replace "political" with "humanitarian" in my post and the same logic applies. You can't have free-for-all demonstrations or a play-it-by-ear policy. I don't think the GAA is being callous about Gaza and I don't buy the shite about not offending Sky. It's simply the only tenable policy.

It may be the same logic, but 'standing idly by' becomes more obvious, and much harder to stomach. I wouldn't like to see the day when the GAA and GAA members rejected all charitable appeals en masse because it may offend someone, or open floodgates.

The GAA is only "standing idly by" on one more issue than you. How does your hierarchy of issues take precedence?

My point re it being a humanitarian crisis is, the GAAs charitable floodgates are already open, and rightly so. So rather than asking, where the line should be drawn, (with most saying none for fear of all) we should be asking, why was the line drawn here?

It seems the GAA or whoever was responsible for the removal of the flag, had similar views to the BBC when it refused to broadcast the DECs appeal for aid for Gaza in 2009

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28686516

They would appear to have realised this was bad judgement given they, and sky, are broadcasting the current one, perhaps the GAA just need to realise they are no longer 'keeping up with the jones's' by removing the palestinian flag.

[ardal]

Firstly Aoise, one more vowel and you'd have all 5.   There are protests against the actions of Israel all over the world. Why not Croke Park too? Freedom of speech? What are the names of the stands in Croke? Some could find them offensive. I've read the first link on this thread and believe aoise is doing this out of a sense of respect and not for any individual need or ego.  You have all my respect and I hope to see a sea of green black white and red this weekend.  Nobody stood up for the jews and we know what happened during ww2. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

[thebigfella]

Is this really about the Palestinian plight or about getting one over the GAA (or Rupert Murdoch's Sky)?

I'd argue the 2nd as Aoise doesn't appear to be doing anything else to actively highlight/help the Palestinian's.

[dowling]

This is fvckin comical.......God forbid someone can have a different opinion or perspective


My way or the highway around here

It's not a question of not accepting there are different opinions, I am just genuinely trying to find out what you and others form your opinions on. It's difficult to keep this solely confined to the topic because of the context.
I've read through previous posts and now see where you you at least partially form some of your thoughts and I'm a bit more clued in about them.

[Aoise]

Is this really about the Palestinian plight or about getting one over the GAA (or Rupert Murdoch's Sky)?

I'd argue the 2nd as Aoise doesn't appear to be doing anything else to actively highlight/help the Palestinian's.

1) Why would I want to get one over on the GAA as I am a lifelong member and supporter?  That really doesn't make sense.  I don't happen to think Rupert Murdoch will be too interested in what happens on Saturday as I'm sure he won't be personally watching, however, if one of the reasons for stopping the flying of a flag in Croke Park was anything to do with a Sky Corporation directive - that I would have an issue with!

2) I'm not going to degrade myself by trotting out on here what I do or don't do for the people of Gaza.  As you don't know me personally then you cannot make any assumptions on that.  One thing is for sure though, I'd say reading by your message that I'm doing one thing more than you!  Also, its not about me, I simply started a thread on something that I felt people had a right to know about.  I'll leave it up to your own conscience as to whether or not you want to participate, as is your right!

[Aoise]

This is a humanitarian cause, not a political one

OK - replace "political" with "humanitarian" in my post and the same logic applies. You can't have free-for-all demonstrations or a play-it-by-ear policy. I don't think the GAA is being callous about Gaza and I don't buy the shite about not offending Sky. It's simply the only tenable policy.

It may be the same logic, but 'standing idly by' becomes more obvious, and much harder to stomach. I wouldn't like to see the day when the GAA and GAA members rejected all charitable appeals en masse because it may offend someone, or open floodgates.

The GAA is only "standing idly by" on one more issue than you. How does your hierarchy of issues take precedence?

I happen to think that Croke Park is the people's park. 

It's the GAA's Park. The people have to pay to get in to see games in it.

And what is the GAA if not the people Rossfan?   

The GAA is not "the people". It is the members of CLCG only. A lot of " the people" who go to support teams are in fact NOT members of the GAA and in effect have no say in how it's run or what decisions it makes at whatever level. They are of course perfectly entitled to comment or criticise those decisions but they have no say in them if they're not members.

Just for the record I think Israel is a rogue State which has built illegal settlements on illegally grabbed land, is denying basic human existence to the people of Gaza, and has committed war crimes in Gaza this summer not to mention on previous occasions and further back the massacres in Lebanon in 1982 etc.

Well good that has cleared that up then as I am a member of CLCG, so therefore should have my voice heard yes?

It seems to me that you're looking for more than having your voice heard, Aoise. You're arguing that your personal opinion should override the policy of the GAA management which, until there's reason to believe otherwise, would seem to have the support of the majority of members.

If you think otherwise, put that motion on your club AGM agenda. That's how you get your voice heard in the GAA.

Hardy what do you think an individual could do in two days?  My club AGM is not until December.  Do you want me to contact Netanyahu and tell him to hold off till then?  There is an urgency to this and to be frank, the GAA management have not consulted the people on this so by democratic convention they really don't have the right to tell individual people not to support this particular issue.  What are they basing it on? Its not party political!

[Aoise]

Firstly Aoise, one more vowel and you'd have all 5.   There are protests against the actions of Israel all over the world. Why not Croke Park too? Freedom of speech? What are the names of the stands in Croke? Some could find them offensive. I've read the first link on this thread and believe aoise is doing this out of a sense of respect and not for any individual need or ego.  You have all my respect and I hope to see a sea of red green black white and red this weekend.  Nobody stood up for the jews and we know what happened during ww2. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Thanks for the support Ardal!  Yes, I thought the 'S' was necessary too. 

[thebigfella]

Is this really about the Palestinian plight or about getting one over the GAA (or Rupert Murdoch's Sky)?

I'd argue the 2nd as Aoise doesn't appear to be doing anything else to actively highlight/help the Palestinian's.

1) Why would I want to get one over on the GAA as I am a lifelong member and supporter?  That really doesn't make sense.  I don't happen to think Rupert Murdoch will be too interested in what happens on Saturday as I'm sure he won't be personally watching, however, if one of the reasons for stopping the flying of a flag in Croke Park was anything to do with a Sky Corporation directive - that I would have an issue with!

You have read you very first post I assume?

[Arthur_Friend]

I'm not into politics at all but I certainly disagree with what's happening over there and I'd support anything that would stop it but any rallies or support should be kept away from inside of any sports grounds. I want to see plenty of Armagh flags and I still grin at the tongue and cheek flag from the Garvaghy Rd men on tour but that's as far as it should go and all other flags and emblems should be kept for another day for a rally or protest...

+1

No you wouldn't support anything that was happening to stop it as you have an issue with an innocent flag in Croke Park!  So how would you support anything when you have a problem with this? So stop being disingenuous and just tell the truth, people just don't care!  I'll accept that but don't use this sport is apolitical nonsense - it doesn't make sense considering the majority of people in the country are outraged by this.  Just out of curiosity, why is it such a problem if a flag opposing the slaughter of innocence is taken into Croke Park?  Explain why those people who want to are in the wrong?

Aoise...contrary to what most posters on here think.....there are 2 sides to this conflict

The mere suggestion of a dissenting show of solidarity for the Israeli side was met with an "Id have a word in their ear"  comment from a pro Palestinian supporter.

In fairness he did follow up and say he would be non confrontational, BUT I think any fair minded person could see this cpuld spiral out of control very quickly

You are right, there are 2 sides Whitey.  One that is the fourth biggest military power in the world, the other who are getting slaughtered on a daily basis.  How in the name of God could this spiral out of control?  This is a humanitarian issue, why would someone get offended at anyone showing  support for people who are being killed?  I just don't get it!  I thought that at least Irish people could show that regardless of the contextual history in Palestine, that what is happening is wrong - pure and simple!  Do you think what is happening to the people of Gaza is right?

Aoise.....I have already had more than enough to say on the other thread so let's keep this about the flags. Here's my point-(a) what happens if a counter demonstrations takes place?  (It's unlikely but possible) (b) what happens if someone shows up with an Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag as happened within the last week at other demonstrations Can you imagine the damage that would do to the GAA worldwide?

If you're worried about damaging the GAA worldwide I would say so long as no one shows up with the Stars and Stripes all will be ok. When all is said and done the USA is the biggest killer and warmonger on the planet. Just ask the Vietnamese or Iraqis (among others) and they'll tell you. Hezbollah and Hamas are small fry in the grand scheme of things. You need to take off your Red, White and Blue tinted glasses Whitey.