Maigh Eo v Gaillimh, 2pm, 13ú Iúil, Pairc Mhic Eil

[Syferus]

But none of those things actually happened Lar, so they didnt put up a good fight, they may have if they had scored a couple of goals, had a bit more experience and had a few retired players playing for them.

If they were bringing on Joyce in his youth JM would hardly stand by and watch that, he'd have Jinkin Joe and Willie Joe on before Mulholland knew it

True, Mayo were always in control. But the point I was making was that Galway will have come on a lot after that game. They have the makings of a very good side and will take some beating now.

Even that is a bit of an untruth. Tipp could quite easily beat Galway and then this year looks very bad, barely surviving relegation in D2 and a win against a woeful Sligo performance all they have to show for the year. Manager too is on a seriously hot seat even if they don't lose to Tipp.

Galway have the raw pieces to be a good side (when don't they?) but a lot of the lads they played against ye aren't the answer and the team that does succeed may have surprisingly few of those players starting.

[/b]

Agree with that. Galway need to be a Div 1 team again. If a county does not have the quality to be a Div 1 team it's hard to see them able to contend in the championship. Fermanagh did it in 2004 reaching the semis. But what teams have done it since? i cant think of any but I m sure there been at least 1. Down 2010?

I think Galway were D3 in 1995.
We were D1 up until relatively recently and it didn't make much difference

I was thinking of more recent times. Mayo were Div 3 as well in '96. But don t think that s possible now.
Galway were in Div 1 until relatively recently because likes of Meehan was playing and some of the old guard like Joyce were still togging out. It was a gradual slide though.

The worst kind of slide. You can fool yourself into thinking it's not so bad and suddenly half a decade has passed. At least the Tan Man blew us up in the most spectacular way imaginable so we couldn't mistake what had happened.

I know, I know. But how can we square Sir John being the Mayo manager that set a standard for us and is regarded in Roscommon as sending them back to basics?

You get one part big name manager from our most hated rivals, one part big-headed disciplinarian and one part experienced, opinionated and successful players and you get an explosion that left Rossie body parts strewn across the county for the next two or three years.

The hate certainly isn't one way and John (no 'een', that's reserved for the current John in charge) likes to stick the boot in any chance he gets. He's no blameless babe.

The whole "paying customers" jibe at supporters has reached legendary status in the county at this stage. I accept he was a good manager for other teams but he was a truly terrible appointment for us that set us on a path that ended up with us in D4 playing fúcking Kilkenny when we had been in or pushing the top 10 or 12 teams in the country pretty much consistently for the first half of the 00's.

Then there's the players he disaffected completely - Frankie could still be on the senior county panel now if he wanted to yet because of Maughan his career ended and we lost one of the best forwards of his generation. Maughan thought he was finished in mid-2005 for christ's sake. How would you feel if someone took over Mayo and managed to get rid of Aidan O'Shea or Cillian O'Connor in their pomps? Those are the sorts of things supporters simply will never forget or forgive.

Anyways, ye should definitely appoint him when the Horan express departs.

[moysider]

That's unlikely to happen.
Things change. But I doubt if we would be contenders now if Maughan didn t do what he did in in his first term with us. And he recovered us again in 04. A few blind spots cost him and the county ... O Neill did a job as well in mid 80. But for a lot of our time we ve wasted talent. The years of Pateen an Johnno eg. Moran and Morrisson gave us a great year in 06 even though they were dead men walking from early on. The Johno and Pateen years were a huge knock back. Horan has been another Maughan/O Neill so far. Strong singled-minded managers.

[Syferus]

That's unlikely to happen.
Things change. But I doubt if we would be contenders now if Maughan didn t do what he did in in his first term with us. And he recovered us again in 04. A few blind spots cost him and the county ... O Neill did a job as well in mid 80. But for a lot of our time we ve wasted talent. The years of Pateen an Johnno eg. Moran and Morrisson gave us a great year in 06 even though they were dead men walking from early on. The Johno and Pateen years were a huge knock back. Horan has been another Maughan/O Neill so far. Strong singled-minded managers.

Aye but it can go horrifically wrong for people like them if results don't go their way. You can even see Horan amassing a small army of disaffected people in Mayo even though he's brought Mayo to untold heights. Imagine what it would be like if he was managing Roscommon, losing and doing the same thing. That's what happened with Maughan in a nutshell.

Ironically Evans is a disciplinarian too but he's much less removed from his players. It's like getting the good points of Maughan combined with someone cute enough to read the temperature of the county and the emotions of the team. Well, most of the time.

[rosnarun]

Most  managers have one big idea and when thats found out ,they may as well retire instead they seem to go on a downward spiral of weaker counties till they end up in westmeath.

[Mac2]

Wonder does McGee reckon we can still learn from Derry?

[Lar Naparka]

But none of those things actually happened Lar, so they didnt put up a good fight, they may have if they had scored a couple of goals, had a bit more experience and had a few retired players playing for them.

If they were bringing on Joyce in his youth JM would hardly stand by and watch that, he'd have Jinkin Joe and Willie Joe on before Mulholland knew it

True, Mayo were always in control. But the point I was making was that Galway will have come on a lot after that game. They have the makings of a very good side and will take some beating now.

Even that is a bit of an untruth. Tipp could quite easily beat Galway and then this year looks very bad, barely surviving relegation in D2 and a win against a woeful Sligo performance all they have to show for the year. Manager too is on a seriously hot seat even if they don't lose to Tipp.

Galway have the raw pieces to be a good side (when don't they?) but a lot of the lads they played against ye aren't the answer and the team that does succeed may have surprisingly few of those players starting.

[/b]

Agree with that. Galway need to be a Div 1 team again. If a county does not have the quality to be a Div 1 team it's hard to see them able to contend in the championship. Fermanagh did it in 2004 reaching the semis. But what teams have done it since? i cant think of any but I m sure there been at least 1. Down 2010?

I think Galway were D3 in 1995.
We were D1 up until relatively recently and it didn't make much difference

I was thinking of more recent times. Mayo were Div 3 as well in '96. But don t think that s possible now.
Galway were in Div 1 until relatively recently because likes of Meehan was playing and some of the old guard like Joyce were still togging out. It was a gradual slide though.

The worst kind of slide. You can fool yourself into thinking it's not so bad and suddenly half a decade has passed. At least the Tan Man blew us up in the most spectacular way imaginable so we couldn't mistake what had happened.

I know, I know. But how can we square Sir John being the Mayo manager that set a standard for us and is regarded in Roscommon as sending them back to basics?

No possible moy, the laws of logic don't apply to Sir John's managerial odyssey.

Unlike mere mortals, SJ began at the top and steadily worked his way to the bottom. Well, more or less anyway.
An All Ireland B with Clare at his first stint as a county manager, followed by a Munster championship title.
Both tremendous achievements and he came incredibly close to ending Mayo's long wait for Sam.
'96 was the high water mark of his career.
Sheer inexperience cost him the '96 title . Not so the failure in '97. Poor tactical judgement,  including a complete failure to cop on that Maurice Fitz had Pateen in his arse pocket from start to finish saw him let that one away.
Next, he didn't stay long in the Fermanagh  and he left before he was pushed.
Back to Mayo once more and a complete annihilation in the '04 final. So, in the Mayo trilogy of AI defeats , he went very close in '96, hmmm..not so lose in '97 and went belly up in 2004.
Mortals generally learn as they go along the path of life, John went arseways from start to finish.
The sheepophiles weren't one little bit impressed by SJ's attempts to drill a bit of sense into them. That would be a next to impossible task for most but he had to clear the county boundarioes even faster than he decamped for Fermanagh.
God knows neither Fermanagh nor Roscommon should be too choosy about who would bother to manage them, but even they found The Tan Man too much of a pain in the arse to tolerate.
Apart from all that, I'm told he's quite a nice guy.

[Rossfan]

[Apart from all that, I'm told he's quite a nice guy.

He is but a touch of arrogance in his make up. Probably from being an army Officer - the Officer is always right.

[moysider]

The following is Ray Silke column this week in The Advertiser. I don t always like to agree with Ray but I think he s on the money here.


Mayo far superior to Galway — but can they win Sam?

On the Mayo Advertiser vodcast last week - all four pundits went very strongly for a Mayo win in the Connacht final. John Casey of this parish even pushed his prediction out to a six point win for James Horan's men. Hence there was no real surprise last Sunday when Mayo proved once again that they are by far the best team in this province.

Roscommon are narrowing the gap, however Mayo are still the top dogs. They fully merited their four in a row of Connacht titles and it was nice to be at MacHale Park to see Andy Moran make history. The margin of victory was seven points, however, it could have been a good bit more, notwithstanding Robbie Hennelly's fine penalty save off Shane Walsh. I felt that Mayo could have got three more goals had their luck been in. They were denied a stonewall penalty at the start of the second half. Lee Keegan also made a bad effort at a goal, when he was in acres of space (again) and totally unmarked in front of Manus Breathnach, and his shot bombed off the crossbar for a point. And Kevin McLoughlin hit really tamely at Breathnach when he was one-on-one with him in the closing minutes too. All those could have been "Mayo majors" too, and had they hit the onion sack we would have been in the same territory as last year's trouncing in Salthill. Looking forward, and the warm glow of another Connacht title will lose its gloss quickly if Mayo cannot add another, and much more glamorous, trophy by late September.

Based on last weekend's performance, is that likely? No, is the most logical answer.

The difference in physical development, strength, and conditioning between Galway and Mayo was evident all over the field, and in close combat it was invariably a Mayo man who came out with the ball. When you are being totally out-muscled, out-paced, out-thought, and out-played, it is a tough station, and Galway did not have the physical power, or ball players, to compete with Mayo. However that will not be the case if, and when, Mayo face Kerry, or Dublin, or even Donegal or Monaghan.

A key concern for Mayo is this; Are they any better than last year? Or 2012? Are they any better equipped this year to beat Dublin if they get back to an All-Ireland final? Defensively they seem reasonable enough, although Paul Conroy did cause a lot of bother to Ger Cafferkey in the second half. But, the team's massive over-dependence on Cillian O'Connor in the full-forward line has to be a genuine worry for Mayo supporters. The Ballintubber man is the real "go-to player" now in the Mayo forward division, as evidenced by his eight points and two wonderful assists for Mayo's goals. However if a team stops him, who will Mayo turn to for crucial scores? If Dublin's Jonny Cooper or Rory O'Carroll nullified Cillian, where would Mayo look? Have Andy Moran or Alan Dillon the pace in their legs for the really top level at Croke Park? Michael Conroy and Alan Freeman both came on last weekend, but are either of them the solution in the white heat of an All-Ireland final? I expect Mayo to reach the semi-finals or even final again, however I do not see them winning Sam. Unfortunately, it looks like that ship has sailed.


What of Galway?

They have a have a date with Peter Creedon's Tipperary in Tullamore (7pm) on Saturday week. And it looks quite possible that the Tipperary footballers might do the same job on Galway as their hurlers did. The Galway forwards hit 16 points last weekend and that would win a lot of games, however, Galway's porous full-back line will not rectified by the Tipperary game. No doubt Alan Mulholland is hoping that Joss Moore will be back by then. In Conor Sweeney, Barry Grogan, and Philip Austin Tipperary have a full-forward line to make hay in there. Creedon was in Castlebar last Sunday to run the rule over Galway and he was quoted as saying; "We're going to take a bit of beating." And he was right. Galway did defeat them 1-12 to 0-11 last June in the first round of the qualifiers at Pearse Stadium, however, it will take a far superior performance than that one, to do so again.

[Syferus]

The following is Ray Silke column this week in The Advertiser. I don t always like to agree with Ray but I think he s on the money here.


Mayo far superior to Galway — but can they win Sam?

On the Mayo Advertiser vodcast last week - all four pundits went very strongly for a Mayo win in the Connacht final. John Casey of this parish even pushed his prediction out to a six point win for James Horan's men. Hence there was no real surprise last Sunday when Mayo proved once again that they are by far the best team in this province.

Roscommon are narrowing the gap, however Mayo are still the top dogs. They fully merited their four in a row of Connacht titles and it was nice to be at MacHale Park to see Andy Moran make history. The margin of victory was seven points, however, it could have been a good bit more, notwithstanding Robbie Hennelly's fine penalty save off Shane Walsh. I felt that Mayo could have got three more goals had their luck been in. They were denied a stonewall penalty at the start of the second half. Lee Keegan also made a bad effort at a goal, when he was in acres of space (again) and totally unmarked in front of Manus Breathnach, and his shot bombed off the crossbar for a point. And Kevin McLoughlin hit really tamely at Breathnach when he was one-on-one with him in the closing minutes too. All those could have been "Mayo majors" too, and had they hit the onion sack we would have been in the same territory as last year's trouncing in Salthill. Looking forward, and the warm glow of another Connacht title will lose its gloss quickly if Mayo cannot add another, and much more glamorous, trophy by late September.

Based on last weekend's performance, is that likely? No, is the most logical answer.

The difference in physical development, strength, and conditioning between Galway and Mayo was evident all over the field, and in close combat it was invariably a Mayo man who came out with the ball. When you are being totally out-muscled, out-paced, out-thought, and out-played, it is a tough station, and Galway did not have the physical power, or ball players, to compete with Mayo. However that will not be the case if, and when, Mayo face Kerry, or Dublin, or even Donegal or Monaghan.

A key concern for Mayo is this; Are they any better than last year? Or 2012? Are they any better equipped this year to beat Dublin if they get back to an All-Ireland final? Defensively they seem reasonable enough, although Paul Conroy did cause a lot of bother to Ger Cafferkey in the second half. But, the team's massive over-dependence on Cillian O'Connor in the full-forward line has to be a genuine worry for Mayo supporters. The Ballintubber man is the real "go-to player" now in the Mayo forward division, as evidenced by his eight points and two wonderful assists for Mayo's goals. However if a team stops him, who will Mayo turn to for crucial scores? If Dublin's Jonny Cooper or Rory O'Carroll nullified Cillian, where would Mayo look? Have Andy Moran or Alan Dillon the pace in their legs for the really top level at Croke Park? Michael Conroy and Alan Freeman both came on last weekend, but are either of them the solution in the white heat of an All-Ireland final? I expect Mayo to reach the semi-finals or even final again, however I do not see them winning Sam. Unfortunately, it looks like that ship has sailed.


What of Galway?

They have a have a date with Peter Creedon's Tipperary in Tullamore (7pm) on Saturday week. And it looks quite possible that the Tipperary footballers might do the same job on Galway as their hurlers did. The Galway forwards hit 16 points last weekend and that would win a lot of games, however, Galway's porous full-back line will not rectified by the Tipperary game. No doubt Alan Mulholland is hoping that Joss Moore will be back by then. In Conor Sweeney, Barry Grogan, and Philip Austin Tipperary have a full-forward line to make hay in there. Creedon was in Castlebar last Sunday to run the rule over Galway and he was quoted as saying; "We're going to take a bit of beating." And he was right. Galway did defeat them 1-12 to 0-11 last June in the first round of the qualifiers at Pearse Stadium, however, it will take a far superior performance than that one, to do so again.

I dislike Ray Silke more than Eugene McGee, Pat Spillane and.. well, no, even Silke isn't on Maughan's level

[moysider]

I know Ray a bit and I ve always found him sound.  Spillane I respect for what he achieved as a player. McGee is beneath contempt imo and I cant understand how most football people hold him in such high esteem.

Is there anything you don t like about the above piece by Ray?

[Syferus]

I know Ray a bit and I ve always found him sound.  Spillane I respect for what he achieved as a player. McGee is beneath contempt imo and I cant understand how most football people hold him in such high esteem.

Is there anything you don t like about the above piece by Ray?

Silke is topped only by Sean Ban for lobbing bombs and barbs over the border at us. And ever since Brigids started wrecking Corofin's runs he's got worse. You could even see his attitude to Roscommon in A Year 'Til Sunday talking before the Connacht final replay. Doesn't respect Roscommon and we don't respect him in return.

[From the Bunker]

Silke looks down his nose at Mayo (and Ros)! He quite enjoys Mayo's repeated forays to Croker without success. But that is only natural, we are rivals. And more importantly we are rival neighbours. I quite enjoy how much presently we are ahead of Galway. That is also natural. Galway have been the last decade or so looking down their nose at Mayo living off 98/01 and scoffing at us repeatedly falling short. Lines like we went there and finished the job off proper has been cast up to Many a Mayo supporter. Any time Mayo (or Ros or Sligo) beat Galway. Galway looked on this as a waste of a year and seen it almost as an entitlement that the red carpet should be laid out to let them get the job finished off proper. The last day at the Connacht final, a galway fan beside me said I hope it's a tight game, it will do Mayo the world of good to have a tight game. In the past i would have agreed. But the only team that a tight game would have suited on Sunday was Galway, it would have gave them confidence, we don't need confidence (not in Connacht anyway) and to be cruel you don't really care about your rival (really).

Only Galway play proper football (in the style of Kerry) we are constantly told. They are backed up by the lynch pins of Journalism (Magee, Spillane, O'Rourke, Breheney) to such a degree that the Myth of them being a fine football county is presently just that a Myth. But each year (like Arsenal) we get the youth talked up, the next terrible twins, the next great footballing side, the next set of unbelievable forwards. Meanwhile Mayo are still Mayo, Labeled as being Chokers, Labeled as not being able to win in Croke park, Labeled as not having players to get scores. Stereotypes stick hard in the GAA. If you are once known for something you are always known for that thing. A feck me trying to shake it off. Tyrone have done a decent job the last 10+ years to beat labels but there was still the begrudgers who just had to put them into the cynical category. 

Back to Silke. He's a Galway man. He has no real cares for Mayo. He was worked in Castlebar for a while and that has probably made him not want Mayo (even more) to win Sam. That ok! That's rivalry!

Hon Mayo!

[moysider]

Silke looks down his nose at Mayo (and Ros)! He quite enjoys Mayo's repeated forays to Croker without success. But that is only natural, we are rivals. And more importantly we are rival neighbours. I quite enjoy how much presently we are ahead of Galway. That is also natural. Galway have been the last decade or so looking down their nose at Mayo living off 98/01 and scoffing at us repeatedly falling short. Lines like we went there and finished the job off proper has been cast up to Many a Mayo supporter. Any time Mayo (or Ros or Sligo) beat Galway. Galway looked on this as a waste of a year and seen it almost as an entitlement that the red carpet should be laid out to let them get the job finished off proper. The last day at the Connacht final, a galway fan beside me said I hope it's a tight game, it will do Mayo the world of good to have a tight game. In the past i would have agreed. But the only team that a tight game would have suited on Sunday was Galway, it would have gave them confidence, we don't need confidence (not in Connacht anyway) and to be cruel you don't really care about your rival (really).

Only Galway play proper football (in the style of Kerry) we are constantly told. They are backed up by the lynch pins of Journalism (Magee, Spillane, O'Rourke, Breheney) to such a degree that the Myth of them being a fine football county is presently just that a Myth. But each year (like Arsenal) we get the youth talked up, the next terrible twins, the next great footballing side, the next set of unbelievable forwards. Meanwhile Mayo are still Mayo, Labeled as being Chokers, Labeled as not being able to win in Croke park, Labeled as not having players to get scores. Stereotypes stick hard in the GAA. If you are once known for something you are always known for that thing. A feck me trying to shake it off. Tyrone have done a decent job the last 10+ years to beat labels but there was still the begrudgers who just had to put them into the cynical category. 

Back to Silke. He's a Galway man. He has no real cares for Mayo. He was worked in Castlebar for a while and that has probably made him not want Mayo (even more) to win Sam. That ok! That's rivalry!

Hon Mayo!

Good one Bunker. I was thinking similar.

After 15 minutes a pal in the group I was with remarked that there was little buzz or excitement. My response was 'good, and I hope it stays that way, if it gets exciting it means we re in trouble!'

Of course Ray want s us to fail down the road. I can understand that.

Unfortunately I agree with his conclusion about our likelyhood of winning Sam.

[From the Bunker]

Silke looks down his nose at Mayo (and Ros)! He quite enjoys Mayo's repeated forays to Croker without success. But that is only natural, we are rivals. And more importantly we are rival neighbours. I quite enjoy how much presently we are ahead of Galway. That is also natural. Galway have been the last decade or so looking down their nose at Mayo living off 98/01 and scoffing at us repeatedly falling short. Lines like we went there and finished the job off proper has been cast up to Many a Mayo supporter. Any time Mayo (or Ros or Sligo) beat Galway. Galway looked on this as a waste of a year and seen it almost as an entitlement that the red carpet should be laid out to let them get the job finished off proper. The last day at the Connacht final, a galway fan beside me said I hope it's a tight game, it will do Mayo the world of good to have a tight game. In the past i would have agreed. But the only team that a tight game would have suited on Sunday was Galway, it would have gave them confidence, we don't need confidence (not in Connacht anyway) and to be cruel you don't really care about your rival (really).

Only Galway play proper football (in the style of Kerry) we are constantly told. They are backed up by the lynch pins of Journalism (Magee, Spillane, O'Rourke, Breheney) to such a degree that the Myth of them being a fine football county is presently just that a Myth. But each year (like Arsenal) we get the youth talked up, the next terrible twins, the next great footballing side, the next set of unbelievable forwards. Meanwhile Mayo are still Mayo, Labeled as being Chokers, Labeled as not being able to win in Croke park, Labeled as not having players to get scores. Stereotypes stick hard in the GAA. If you are once known for something you are always known for that thing. A feck me trying to shake it off. Tyrone have done a decent job the last 10+ years to beat labels but there was still the begrudgers who just had to put them into the cynical category. 

Back to Silke. He's a Galway man. He has no real cares for Mayo. He was worked in Castlebar for a while and that has probably made him not want Mayo (even more) to win Sam. That ok! That's rivalry!

Hon Mayo!

Good one Bunker. I was thinking similar.

After 15 minutes a pal in the group I was with remarked that there was little buzz or excitement. My response was 'good, and I hope it stays that way, if it gets exciting it means we re in trouble!'

Of course Ray want s us to fail down the road. I can understand that.

Unfortunately I agree with his conclusion about our likelyhood of winning Sam.

Ah, look we know the score, it would take an unbelievable effort to cross that line. But you cannot give up hope.

[moysider]

True. The Aido at 11 is a welcome development and gives us a different dimension imo. Doherty also had an impact from 12 wich is a boost too. I also think that we are more structured in hb line with Keegan having a free role to attact but Boyler and Vaughan having a more conservative role. I liked the way we were more deliberate about our own kickout placement while bullying the other kickout. Maybe it is possible to win the big pot without all these marquee forwards others have?