New Saints

[EC Unique]

St Jose, saviour of football.

[muppet]

Organized Christianity was instituted by Jesus. It's well documented in the Gospels. Jesus chose Simon as His first Pope. He changed his name to Peter which means "Rock" and told him he was the foundation of the church. He gave him the keys to the Kingdom and responsibility for the Church. Without organized religion then we'd all just be making up our own rules as we went along.
But as usual we have two different discussions. The fact that two saints have been appointed (from most of our lifetime) versus the good old does God exist debate. Which usually devolves into bashing and name calling.

John 23rd was the Pope two Popes before JP II (I think). Not sure what he did but JP II's attributed Miracles are well documented. I was always a fan of JP II but that has been tainted by the sex abuse coverup. I still can't discount his successes as a man and a Pope though. He has a long history of amazing acts of forgiveness (after his attempted assassination) to his time in Poland which in many ways sparked the end of Communism.

That for some reason made me smile..

I was thinking of The Borgias when I read it.

[Maguire01]

Thankfully the miniscule number of anti catholic bigots on this board contrast vastly with the vast number of faithful Irish Catholics who attended celebratory masses all over Ireland yesterday,including Knock,Ballybrit Racecourse etc

Your use of the word 'bigot' is both cheap and disingenuous. It implies that any opposition to an institution must be bigoted. In that case, anyone who has issues with, say, the Orange Order, must be a bigot.

And whatever of the numbers who attended masses yesterday contrasting with the "bigots" on this board, they in turn are vastly outnumbered by those who stayed at home, indifferent.

[Maguire01]

Without organized religion then we'd all just be making up our own rules as we went along.

Or, we'd have some kind of political system where laws are made and enforced.

Not sure what he did but JP II's attributed Miracles are well documented.

And about as water-tight as Derry's defence in Croke Park yesterday. Like seriously, it's a case of "we can't explain it, so it must be a miracle, and it must be down to JP II".

[The Iceman]

Without organized religion then we'd all just be making up our own rules as we went along.

Or, we'd have some kind of political system where laws are made and enforced.

I'm talking about from a spiritual perspective. If you are a subscribing Christian but claim to not need organized religion then you are making up your own rules as you go along. Jesus gave us a church as the pillar and foundation of spiritual truth. First came the church then came the bible.

Not sure what he did but JP II's attributed Miracles are well documented.

And about as water-tight as Derry's defence in Croke Park yesterday. Like seriously, it's a case of "we can't explain it, so it must be a miracle, and it must be down to JP II".

From a spiritual perspective their reasoning is sound. They who's and why's of miracle's ultimately don't have to weigh up to your standards. Again I'm not entirely happy with his appointment but I leave that as it may be...

[BennyCake]

Both have been responsible for miracles.The only hypocrisy is the attendance of Enda Kenny

I agree, we should be boycotting any Vatican events until they release all the records they have on their abuse of our children.

Terrible as it was, the Catholic Church has done a lot worse down the centuries.

Is not going to mass considered a boycott of a Vatican event? It is all run from there after all.

I think the thing is not to connect the Catholic Church and God. Boycotting mass because of the abuse thing is a nonsensical reason. Surely you go there to worship your god? What does it matter who says the mass?

See my previous post!

As for the bit what does it matter who says the mass - says more about you kid, so a convicted child abuser is OK to say the mass? You couldn't make this shite up!

How many are actually convicted abusers? Surely that's he issue here, that there's very little because of cover ups.

why is there a need to go to mass to 'worship your god' at all?

Well, I'm assuming that's why people go to mass. Either that, or to check out the local talent.

[Maguire01]

Without organized religion then we'd all just be making up our own rules as we went along.

Or, we'd have some kind of political system where laws are made and enforced.

I'm talking about from a spiritual perspective. If you are a subscribing Christian but claim to not need organized religion then you are making up your own rules as you go along. Jesus gave us a church as the pillar and foundation of spiritual truth. First came the church then came the bible.

Not sure what he did but JP II's attributed Miracles are well documented.

And about as water-tight as Derry's defence in Croke Park yesterday. Like seriously, it's a case of "we can't explain it, so it must be a miracle, and it must be down to JP II".

From a spiritual perspective their reasoning is sound. They who's and why's of miracle's ultimately don't have to weigh up to your standards. Again I'm not entirely happy with his appointment but I leave that as it may be...

Well if your responses are all "from a spiritual perspective", there's little point in me countering with logic.

[Maguire01]

And Cardinal Brady attends Armagh home games. Should we all boycott these matches?

Probably. But not for that reason.

[playwiththewind1st]

What's the betting on a, for example, St. Adolf of Berlin/Munich next?

You saw ould Ratzinger whispering in yer man's ear yesterday, that ould Adolf "cured" an awful lot of problems in his time [mainly by killing them, it should be said].

Frankie the first says straight back, quick as a flash, "I'll swap you 1 St. Adolf for a Saint General Galtieri of the Malvinas".

I'd say give it 9-10 years & hey presto, 2 more new saints. I hear complaints are not far off to the newly established "Saints' Ombudsman". Apparently heaven is rapidly becoming a slum, mainly through overcrowding.

The old saints don't much care for these new interlopers who haven't even been dead a decade.

Relics, anybody?

[muppet]

And Cardinal Brady attends Armagh home games. Should we all boycott these matches?

Why would we boycott one organisation (Gaa) for the sins of another (Catholic Church)?

For the record there have been many thousands of members of the clergy who have done fantastic work for the Gaa and every facet of life in Ireland. It is their leadership that I have the problem with and in particular their ongoing refusal to fully co-operate on all abuse issues.

[BennyCake]

And Cardinal Brady attends Armagh home games. Should we all boycott these matches?

Why would we boycott one organisation (Gaa) for the sins of another (Catholic Church)?

For the record there have been many thousands of members of the clergy who have done fantastic work for the Gaa and every facet of life in Ireland. It is their leadership that I have the problem with and in particular their ongoing refusal to fully co-operate on all abuse issues.

Well, there's folk who don't attend mass because of the abuse thing, so in a way, they're doing exactly that.

[playwiththewind1st]

Where's Martin Luther, just when you need him?

[muppet]

And Cardinal Brady attends Armagh home games. Should we all boycott these matches?

Why would we boycott one organisation (Gaa) for the sins of another (Catholic Church)?

For the record there have been many thousands of members of the clergy who have done fantastic work for the Gaa and every facet of life in Ireland. It is their leadership that I have the problem with and in particular their ongoing refusal to fully co-operate on all abuse issues.

Well, there's folk who don't attend mass because of the abuse thing, so in a way, they're doing exactly that.

Really, they avoid the Catholic Church because of institutional abuse and cover-up by the Catholic Church. And that is two different organisations?

[BennyCake]

And Cardinal Brady attends Armagh home games. Should we all boycott these matches?

Why would we boycott one organisation (Gaa) for the sins of another (Catholic Church)?

For the record there have been many thousands of members of the clergy who have done fantastic work for the Gaa and every facet of life in Ireland. It is their leadership that I have the problem with and in particular their ongoing refusal to fully co-operate on all abuse issues.

Well, there's folk who don't attend mass because of the abuse thing, so in a way, they're doing exactly that.

Really, they avoid the Catholic Church because of institutional abuse and cover-up by the Catholic Church. And that is two different organisations?

People attend mass to worship God, don't they? God is like one organisation, the church the other. I figured you'd get that.

[muppet]

People attend mass to worship God, don't they? God is like one organisation, the church the other. I figured you'd get that.

Really, God is an organisation?

Who else is in His organisation?