Tyrone v Down - Sun 18th May, Omagh

[AZOffaly]

You said 'since 2008'. So I took that as my sample size. If you mean since 2010 and you're talking about 2011, 12 and 13, then fair enough, but then last year would point to being an improvement. I'm not suggesting Tyrone are in the top 4 any more, but I think they are certainly in 5-8 and that's not bad when you consider the huge turnover.

Anyway, why are Offaly and Antrim men arguing over Tyrone football?

[screenexile]

Is Mickey Harte the Arsene Wenger of the GAA world. . . if he wins the McKenna Cup next year that should offer him a reprieve!

[BennyHarp]

Is Mickey Harte the Arsene Wenger of the GAA world. . . if he wins the McKenna Cup next year that should offer him a reprieve!

Tyrone won it this year - he is not a specialist in failure! 

[WT4E]

Is Mickey Harte the Arsene Wenger of the GAA world. . . if he wins the McKenna Cup next year that should offer him a reprieve!

He's a desperate stubborn/thick man by all accounts. What actually happened between him and Ronan O'Neill - for him not to be playing considering his form and effort is a unfair I think.

Also I heard at the start of the year county board tried to talk him into to letting someone within the setup talk to RTE and he refused very irately. He has a serious right to be annoyed about what happened but could not send someone out to deal with some questions?

[AZOffaly]

Down got to the All Ireland final in 2010. And lost by a point. Tyrone beat them.

[BennyHarp]

You said 'since 2008'. So I took that as my sample size. If you mean since 2010 and you're talking about 2011, 12 and 13, then fair enough, but then last year would point to being an improvement. I'm not suggesting Tyrone are in the top 4 any more, but I think they are certainly in 5-8 and that's not bad when you consider the huge turnover.

Anyway, why are Offaly and Antrim men arguing over Tyrone football?

No, I said they haven't beaten any team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008.

If Tyrone are no longer contenders and are considered outside the top bracket of teams, then surely it should be deemed quite a success to regularly beat all the teams that are in the same bracket as you and maintain a level of competitveness that earns semi final places from time to time. I'd say the reality is that Tyrone are below the top 3 or 4 teams but will usuually beat the rest - in my opinion this is still fairly impressive given the turn over of players and the recent lack of competitive u21 teams.

[Aaron Boone]

You said 'since 2008'. So I took that as my sample size. If you mean since 2010 and you're talking about 2011, 12 and 13, then fair enough, but then last year would point to being an improvement. I'm not suggesting Tyrone are in the top 4 any more, but I think they are certainly in 5-8 and that's not bad when you consider the huge turnover.

Anyway, why are Offaly and Antrim men arguing over Tyrone football?

No, I said they haven't beaten any team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008.

Sure the Dubs were like that upto 2010. If you keep knocking, the door will open.

[BennyHarp]

A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

[Hardy]

A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

I think it would be fantastic if Banty was given the chance to do for Tyrone what he did for us.

[blewuporstuffed]

A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.

Fair enough - any suggestions?

Malachy o'rourke would be the obvious one

[EC Unique]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:

- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.

My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.

You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?

The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.

Seriously? You think a young fella from last years minor team should be on the Tyrone Senior panel this year? Tyrone won the Minor Championship in 2008 and 2010. There are at least 7 of last weeks starting team that were on those panels. Youth IS being brought through.

[Walter Cronc]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:

- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.

My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.

You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?

The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.

Seriously? You think a young fella from last years minor team should be on the Tyrone Senior panel this year? Tyrone won the Minor Championship in 2008 and 2010. There are at least 7 of last weeks starting team that were on those panels. Youth IS being brought through.

Why not? Dublin brough Mannion, Mc Caffrey and Kilkenny through at 19. Tyrones best manager (thanks lads) is bringing through a raft of 19/20 year olds in Derry!

[EC Unique]

Well he did not really have much choice in Derry as there was feck all else to work with going by the results of the last few years!

[Walter Cronc]

Well he did not really have much choice in Derry as there was feck all else to work with going by the results of the last few years!

And it'll result in us overtaking Tyrone

Jim Gavin will introduce Costello into a stellar forward line this year.

Sentiment will get you's nowhere!

[Fuzzman]

I remember back in March I said I couldn't believe that there were rumblings against Mickey Harte after his accomplishments in Tyrone. I was assured that this was not aimed at Mickey, it was all grand and people were just making fair analysis of the team. I think the posts since (and immediately before) Sunday prove that I was close to the mark back then. I still can't believe it to be honest, but if ye are intent on running him out of town, I think ye better be careful of what you wish for.

AZ I normally look forward to reading your posts but as I came away from the match on Sunday and had a long drive on my own to Dublin I thought a lot about the game. I thought of how many old and young men who all seemed to be agreeing that Mickey is sure making some strange decisions. He usually throws in one or two curve balls in the first team of the year but for such a strange team to be named was exceptional. Then the story about Ronan O'Neill our top scorer I think from the league or maybe after McCurry with 4.24 I think approx.
I thought to myself when I post on the board tomorrow there will be a lot of non Ulster men thinking we're crazy talking about Mickey Harte and how he seems to have us playing a strange team with no evidence really of learning from our mistakes.
All the league we leaked goals and whilst we looked tighter the 1st half we were so so open the second. At one stage I started to look away after the kick outs as I knew another chance would be coming. Down could smell blood like sharks and there was no leadership anywhere in the team. There is nobody with the balls and drive to sort it out. Most of it was cos of our wing backs wanting to push up to support the attack. In my eyes Mickey is making these calls to play these types of players. Most are all good ball players but few are tough ballsy men who know how to hold a defence together. How many do you see eating the head of each other for letting a man go.
Did you see anyone giving out to whoever for not marking his man or letting him get goal side.
Jordan, Ricey, Dooher and Gormley would have went through you if you hadn't done your job.
Of course the players are mainly at fault but its the managers job to put it right after one or two games.
Team now know how open we are and so they go for the jugular. Mickey is slow to respond as he has been all year.
Do you not think we know that if it wasn't for Mickey Harte we would still probably have NO all Irelands. But that doesn't mean the man doesn't change and start making mistakes.
It's all to easy to be sitting in another county watching on in awe of a man who did a lot for Tyrone to say he can do no wrong and yis are some bunch to question him.
Yes he got us last year to the AI semi final which was a HUGE achievement but in my eyes the style of football he has us playing is awful to watch and as a few lads have been discussing here it is ruining the natural style that most players want to play.
I am not calling for Mickey's head as I don't know enough about how it all works but I just wanted to say don't say we have no right to discuss the pros and cons of the man and not just turn a blind eye to the man that will go down in Tyrone history as the best manager we ever had.