FRC Part 2. The 8 team provinces?

[AZOffaly]

I got as far as point 1, sentence 1, before I shook my head. I said ye wanted to abolish the Provincial Championships!

Essentially your system is that a county has to win an All Ireland title, or nothing at all? Is that the gist of it?

[Zulu]

That took me a long time to type out so I hope you bloody read it at least!!!!

No, teams can win their division as well as an All Ireland, but because they are linked winning a division will become a much bigger deal. AZ you're a bit like the guys giving out about the Sky part of the deal when I feel the important point id the overall season.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the provincial championships but if you can come up with a format that retains them, gives all inter county players a decent season and club players a decent season then I'm all ears. If your only point is that Tipp or someone like them could, maybe, might win a provincial championship once every 30 or 40 years then I don't think that's a price worth paying for screwing over every club player in Ireland.

[AZOffaly]

That took me a long time to type out so I hope you bloody read it at least!!!!

No, teams can win their division as well as an All Ireland, but because they are linked winning a division will become a much bigger deal. AZ you're a bit like the guys giving out about the Sky part of the deal when I feel the important point id the overall season.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the provincial championships but if you can come up with a format that retains them, gives all inter county players a decent season and club players a decent season then I'm all ears. If your only point is that Tipp or someone like them could, maybe, might win a provincial championship once every 30 or 40 years then I don't think that's a price worth paying for screwing over every club player in Ireland.

Nothing like a bit of hyperbole Provincial Championships don't screw every player in Ireland. The rubbish Qualifiers, and the fact that the Provincial Championships can't all run closely aligned do each other do that..

I did read the rest of it, I just started shaking my head immediately.  You have to accept that for players, fans and coaches, a Provincial title is still a very worthy goal and an achievement, and is something they want to partake in, and hopefully someday win. I realise Dublin, Kerry, Mayo  the like have a glut of Provincial titles, and wouldn't be calling the season a success simply on the basis of one, but I can tell you Kerry men love their Munster wins, and I'm sure the lads in Mayo like being top of the pile out west.

I'm not arguing that things are perfect as they are. I would certainly eliminate the qualifiers. For example, if we are to take your proposal, which I think does eliminate any back door stuff, then why not simply say the First round all Championships that take 4 rounds takes place on April 26th and 27th. This would be the first round in Leinster and the preliminary round in Ulster.

Then two weeks later, May 10th, the 2nd Round Leinster, 1st round Proper Ulster, and Quarter Finals in Munster and Connacht.

Two weeks after that, MAy 24th and 25th, All 4 provincial semi finals.

2 weeks after that, SUPER WEEKEND, provincial finals in all 4 provinces. That brings us to June 7th and 8th.

Now you go onto the All Ireland series. You could just say Winners only, old school, so Semi Finals on June 21st and 22nd.

Final July 6th. Alternatively add an extra fortnight for provincial finalists to come back in a second chance quarter final.


A drawback I can see being raised is the inter county season being over so early is poor for exposure. The height of summer is when we want our games being watched and played. Of course it would be great for the club player.

[blewuporstuffed]

1.The mckenna cup and associated competitions are scrapped and the league is started earlier.

2.The league is changed to 3 divisions  (2 of 10 and 1 of 11 teams), with more emphasis placed on the value of winning the league as a competition in its own right.

3.The final league placings are used then as a method for qualifying for an A or B all ireland with the top 16 taking part in the premier competition and the rest in a secondary competion.

4.The top division would be made up of the 15 highest placed counties in the league ( all of div 1 and top 5 in div 2) and the winners of the 'B' compettion from the previous year.

5.The provincial championships are retained as a stand alone cup competition played between the league & championship (an FA cup type competition for want of a better term)


6.this leaves a Last 16 knockout type all ireland competition for the sam maguire and a similar format for the secondary competition.

I know the argument will be against a secondary competition, that it will demotivate the smaller counties, but i feel in the overall format there will be enough routes for progress for the smaller counties by progressing up the league ( a top half div 2 finish) or winning the 'B' competition.

Not perfect i know but just a  suggestion.
It would leave the IC season more compact and easier to plan, and allow more room for the club fixtures.

One of the main issues at the minute is getting enough 'meaningful' games for IC players without using up the whole calendar for club football.
The approach to this in the past has been to introduce MORE games in the allireland series, rather than make the games that are already there more meaningful in the overall scheme of things .

This would leave every IC player getting :
9 league games (which will dictate which level of championship they get to play at)
at least 1 provincial championship match (max 4)

at least 1 all ireland series match (max 4)

which gives a minimum season of 11 games and a maximum of 17 games ( if you were to reach both the all ireland final & your provincial final)

The ultimate achievment for a county team would be to win the 'treble' (league, provincial & all ireland)
Every county would have at least 2 'do or die' knockout championship games per year (one in the provincials and one in the all ireland series)

feel free to point out the flaws, its only a suggestion!

[Zulu]

Nothing like a bit of hyperbole Provincial Championships don't screw every player in Ireland. The rubbish Qualifiers, and the fact that the Provincial Championships can't all run closely aligned do each other do that..

Jayney your paranoia is getting the better of you AZ I didn't say the provincial championships are screwing club players, the season is, of which the provincials are part of it. The qualifiers are in response to an attempt to keep the provincial championships.

I did read the rest of it, I just started shaking my head immediately.  You have to accept that for players, fans and coaches, a Provincial title is still a very worthy goal and an achievement, and is something they want to partake in, and hopefully someday win. I realise Dublin, Kerry, Mayo  the like have a glut of Provincial titles, and wouldn't be calling the season a success simply on the basis of one, but I can tell you Kerry men love their Munster wins, and I'm sure the lads in Mayo like being top of the pile out west.

I'd accept all that.

I'm not arguing that things are perfect as they are. I would certainly eliminate the qualifiers. For example, if we are to take your proposal, which I think does eliminate any back door stuff, then why not simply say the First round all Championships that take 4 rounds takes place on April 26th and 27th. This would be the first round in Leinster and the preliminary round in Ulster.

Then two weeks later, May 10th, the 2nd Round Leinster, 1st round Proper Ulster, and Quarter Finals in Munster and Connacht.

Two weeks after that, MAy 24th and 25th, All 4 provincial semi finals.

2 weeks after that, SUPER WEEKEND, provincial finals in all 4 provinces. That brings us to June 7th and 8th.

Now you go onto the All Ireland series. You could just say Winners only, old school, so Semi Finals on June 21st and 22nd.

Final July 6th. Alternatively add an extra fortnight for provincial finalists to come back in a second chance quarter final.


A drawback I can see being raised is the inter county season being over so early is poor for exposure. The height of summer is when we want our games being watched and played. Of course it would be great for the club player.

That's fine but I think that would kill the GAA in an era of ever increasing exposure for other codes. If we did that then lots of counties would be gone after one championship game and the footballers of Waterford, Clare and Tipp would know they'd have to face Cork and Kerry every year. My suggestion gives them a pathway to success that potentially by passes their traditional nemeses. Your plan also doesn't deal with minor and U21 F & H which is a big problem for clubs too.

There's no easy solution here but I think anyone who says the solution has to include something is already tying our hands behind our backs. No matter what you do there'll be pros and cons, for me the key is whether the solution delivers more pros than cons to the majority of players, coaches and fans. I think my proposal does that whereas ones which are built around the provinces don't. But sure I'm not going to convince you at this stage so I'll just have to become president and get you and your ilk suspended from the association, that's the way it works, right?

[Zulu]

1.The mckenna cup and associated competitions are scrapped and the league is started earlier.

2.The league is changed to 3 divisions  (2 of 10 and 1 of 11 teams), with more emphasis placed on the value of winning the league as a competition in its own right.

3.The final league placings are used then as a method for qualifying for an A or B all ireland with the top 16 taking part in the premier competition and the rest in a secondary competion.

4.The top division would be made up of the 15 highest placed counties in the league ( all of div 1 and top 5 in div 2) and the winners of the 'B' compettion from the previous year.

5.The provincial championships are retained as a stand alone cup competition played between the league & championship (an FA cup type competition for want of a better term)


6.this leaves a Last 16 knockout type all ireland competition for the sam maguire and a similar format for the secondary competition.

I know the argument will be against a secondary competition, that it will demotivate the smaller counties, but i feel in the overall format there will be enough routes for progress for the smaller counties by progressing up the league ( a top half div 2 finish) or winning the 'B' competition.

Not perfect i know but just a  suggestion.
It would leave the IC season more compact and easier to plan, and allow more room for the club fixtures.

One of the main issues at the minute is getting enough 'meaningful' games for IC players without using up the whole calendar for club football.
The approach to this in the past has been to introduce MORE games in the allireland series, rather than make the games that are already there more meaningful in the overall scheme of things .

This would leave every IC player getting :
9 league games (which will dictate which level of championship they get to play at)
at least 1 provincial championship match (max 4)

at least 1 all ireland series match (max 4)

which gives a minimum season of 11 games and a maximum of 17 games ( if you were to reach both the all ireland final & your provincial final)

The ultimate achievment for a county team would be to win the 'treble' (league, provincial & all ireland)
Every county would have at least 2 'do or die' knockout championship games per year (one in the provincials and one in the all ireland series)

feel free to point out the flaws, its only a suggestion!

I'd have no problem with playing the provincials on their own but I'd like to see how hurling and minor and U21 fit in to the overall plan. Everything has to included to see if your doing enough for everyone. That's why I'd break as many links between codes and grades as possible so that you free up your hand a bit. I also think only the middle division would be really competitive as a lot of teams could end up with no relegation or promotion goals with 3 or 4 rounds left in div 1 & 3.

[AZOffaly]

Just a couple of things...

That's fine but I think that would kill the GAA in an era of ever increasing exposure for other codes. If we did that then lots of counties would be gone after one championship game and the footballers of Waterford, Clare and Tipp would know they'd have to face Cork and Kerry every year. My suggestion gives them a pathway to success that potentially by passes their traditional nemeses. Your plan also doesn't deal with minor and U21 F & H which is a big problem for clubs too.

Not sure I get this. Unless I'm mistaken, your proposal means 16 counties will be gone after one championship game, and the season finishes even earlier than in what I said? And if the pathway to success means winning something, then they have an even tougher journey in a seeded open draw championship I'd say.

There's no easy solution here but I think anyone who says the solution has to include something is already tying our hands behind our backs. No matter what you do there'll be pros and cons, for me the key is whether the solution delivers more pros than cons to the majority of players, coaches and fans. I think my proposal does that whereas ones which are built around the provinces don't. But sure I'm not going to convince you at this stage so I'll just have to become president and get you and your ilk suspended from the association, that's the way it works, right?[

Yes, but the overseas vote will be fiercely resisted. I'll do a deal with you, when Offaly win Leinster, and Tipp win Munster, we'll dissolve the provincial championships and you can do what you like...

[Rossfan]

An Inter county season finishing in June or 1st week in July  as suggested by AZ and ZULU WON'T be happenin lads.
NFL every 2nd week from 1st weekend in Feb with Club Leagues on the in between weekend.
No NFL Semi finals so NFL 2/2,16/2,2/3,16/3,30/3,13/4,27/4 and play offs/Finals May weekend. A player can only be one 1IC Panel at any given time so U21 Championship to be played NFL weekends.
Provincials as they are but dates as follows
Prelims 11/5
Qtrs 25/5
Semis 15/6
Finals 5&6 July
Qualifiers to be rebranded as simply All Ireland Championship
Round 1 14/6
Round 2 5/7
Round 3 12/7
Round 4  19/7
AI QFs 26/27 July
AI SFs 16/17 Aug - both same weekend
AIF 8/9.
Club players can be told to take their Summer holidays early/mid July by which time they should all be at Qtr Final stages so some lads would only have Leagues left anyway while the rest could get a break before the serious business begins.

[AZOffaly]

An Inter county season finishing in June or 1st week in July  as suggested by AZ and ZULU WON'T be happenin lads.
NFL every 2nd week from 1st weekend in Feb with Club Leagues on the in between weekend.
No NFL Semi finals so NFL 2/2,16/2,2/3,16/3,30/3,13/4,27/4 and play offs/Finals May weekend. A player can only be one 1IC Panel at any given time so U21 Championship to be played NFL weekends.
Provincials as they are but dates as follows
Prelims 11/5
Qtrs 25/5
Semis 15/6
Finals 5&6 July
Qualifiers to be rebranded as simply All Ireland Championship
Round 1 14/6
Round 2 5/7
Round 3 12/7
Round 4  19/7
AI QFs 26/27 July
AI SFs 16/17 Aug - both same weekend
AIF 8/9.
Club players can be told to take their Summer holidays early/mid July by which time they should all be at Qtr Final stages so some lads would only have Leagues left anyway while the rest could get a break before the serious business begins.

I could live with that Ross, except the Qualifiers do my nut in. But I think it does make sense to have all the Provincials running in parallel. The long delays between games in Connacht especially is nuts.

[blewuporstuffed]

I also think only the middle division would be really competitive as a lot of teams could end up with no relegation or promotion goals with 3 or 4 rounds left in div 1 & 3.

I am wary of this too, maybe a similar format to what i have suggested may be workable as well with the current 4 divisions?
I am a fan of the provincial championships to be honest and would like them retained as a stand alone competition.

I like the idea of having a big 'last 16' competion that can be promoted as the flagship of our games and for the smaller counties, getting to that big stage alone would be a goal.
It would leave 15 BIG games  that could be televised and promoted (similar to the sweet 16 college basketball in the states), an i would imagine would gain big attendances.

As for the monirs and U21s , is there any reason why they cant follow the same format?

[AZOffaly]

I also think only the middle division would be really competitive as a lot of teams could end up with no relegation or promotion goals with 3 or 4 rounds left in div 1 & 3.

I am wary of this too, maybe a similar format to what i have suggested may be workable as well with the current 4 divisions?
I am a fan of the provincial championships to be honest and would like them retained as a stand alone competition.

I like the idea of having a big 'last 16' competion that can be promoted as the flagship of our games and for the smaller counties, getting to that big stage alone would be a goal.
It would leave 15 BIG games  that could be televised and promoted (similar to the sweet 16 college basketball in the states), an i would imagine would gain big attendances.

As for the monirs and U21s , is there any reason why they cant follow the same format?

The Sweet 16 in the states is just the 3rd round of the NCAA tournament which starts out as 64 teams, and the sweet 16 regularly features #12 seeds and lower from each of the regions (effectively the 48th ranked teams and up).

In fact the NCAA tournament is very close to what the GAA are talking about with the equal 'provinces' except they call them regions, and they are not really geographically based on the teams, but on the venues. So you'll have 4 'Regions' of 16 teams each.

[ONeill]

Been saying for years to buck the current provincial system. Hard luck Fermanagh but we cannot wait around forever.

8x4 makes sense. We don't really need Donegal anyway. It never felt Ulsterish.

[Rossfan]

the Qualifiers do my nut in.

You have to have an All Ireland aspect to the thing to avoid the strait jacket of a Provincial route only system especially given the difference in size and strengths of the Provinces.
Maybe confine them to Div 1 and 2 NFL Teams?? or 
Bottom 6 from NFL play for the Tommy Murphy cup and winners get into Round 1
Next lowest 6 play for the "Dermot Earley Cup"( who else ?) with the finalists getting into Round 1 and the Winners in round 2.

So
AI C Round 1 consists of 12 teams who don't make the Provincial finals plus the TMC winner and DEC runner up.
Round 2 - 7 winners of round 1 and DEC winner
Round 3 - 4 winners Round 2 v 4 Provincial losers
Qtrs etc .

[Zulu]

Just a couple of things...

That's fine but I think that would kill the GAA in an era of ever increasing exposure for other codes. If we did that then lots of counties would be gone after one championship game and the footballers of Waterford, Clare and Tipp would know they'd have to face Cork and Kerry every year. My suggestion gives them a pathway to success that potentially by passes their traditional nemeses. Your plan also doesn't deal with minor and U21 F & H which is a big problem for clubs too.

Not sure I get this. Unless I'm mistaken, your proposal means 16 counties will be gone after one championship game, and the season finishes even earlier than in what I said? And if the pathway to success means winning something, then they have an even tougher journey in a seeded open draw championship I'd say.

There's no easy solution here but I think anyone who says the solution has to include something is already tying our hands behind our backs. No matter what you do there'll be pros and cons, for me the key is whether the solution delivers more pros than cons to the majority of players, coaches and fans. I think my proposal does that whereas ones which are built around the provinces don't. But sure I'm not going to convince you at this stage so I'll just have to become president and get you and your ilk suspended from the association, that's the way it works, right?[

Yes, but the overseas vote will be fiercely resisted. I'll do a deal with you, when Offaly win Leinster, and Tipp win Munster, we'll dissolve the provincial championships and you can do what you like...

On point 1, the championship includes the league so they're gone after a minimum of 8 games.

Overseas??? That was all a cunning ruse on my part, I'm a Cork man who you might know simply as Frank. When I decide to take power there'll be nothing anyone can do [sinister laugh].

[AZOffaly]

Just a couple of things...

That's fine but I think that would kill the GAA in an era of ever increasing exposure for other codes. If we did that then lots of counties would be gone after one championship game and the footballers of Waterford, Clare and Tipp would know they'd have to face Cork and Kerry every year. My suggestion gives them a pathway to success that potentially by passes their traditional nemeses. Your plan also doesn't deal with minor and U21 F & H which is a big problem for clubs too.

Not sure I get this. Unless I'm mistaken, your proposal means 16 counties will be gone after one championship game, and the season finishes even earlier than in what I said? And if the pathway to success means winning something, then they have an even tougher journey in a seeded open draw championship I'd say.

There's no easy solution here but I think anyone who says the solution has to include something is already tying our hands behind our backs. No matter what you do there'll be pros and cons, for me the key is whether the solution delivers more pros than cons to the majority of players, coaches and fans. I think my proposal does that whereas ones which are built around the provinces don't. But sure I'm not going to convince you at this stage so I'll just have to become president and get you and your ilk suspended from the association, that's the way it works, right?[

Yes, but the overseas vote will be fiercely resisted. I'll do a deal with you, when Offaly win Leinster, and Tipp win Munster, we'll dissolve the provincial championships and you can do what you like...

On point 1, the championship includes the league so they're gone after a minimum of 8 games.

Overseas??? That was all a cunning ruse on my part, I'm a Cork man who you might know simply as Frank. When I decide to take power there'll be nothing anyone can do [sinister laugh].

OK, I see what you mean.