Dublin V Mayo, Saturday 29th March2014. Croke Park 7.00 pm.

[INDIANA]

Only a Mayoman could write that post.

That was a disaster last night for Mayo. How could you lose that game.

They'll be showing replays of that game for years as an example of how not to close a game out.

On us we're not playing great but nothing wrong with our cojones. Coming down the stretch even if we're behind I'd fancy us. But we are trying to do the impossible this year in retaining Sam.

Wow I agree with most of your post Indiana. Not often that happens.

However on your last point I disagree.

I only see one team capable of beating the Dubs this year and that is us, and only as long as it isn't the Final.

Surprised Horan has any hair left with that Mayo team. You'd have to feel for him. You cannot coach decision making into players who obviously won't bloody well listen to him.

I agree with your sentiments but you should have beaten us well last night.

Just not sure you'd close out an AI final. Not sure Horan is either anymore.

[muppet]

Only a Mayoman could write that post.

That was a disaster last night for Mayo. How could you lose that game.

They'll be showing replays of that game for years as an example of how not to close a game out.

On us we're not playing great but nothing wrong with our cojones. Coming down the stretch even if we're behind I'd fancy us. But we are trying to do the impossible this year in retaining Sam.

Wow I agree with most of your post Indiana. Not often that happens.

However on your last point I disagree.

I only see one team capable of beating the Dubs this year and that is us, and only as long as it isn't the Final.

Surprised Horan has any hair left with that Mayo team. You'd have to feel for him. You cannot coach decision making into players who obviously won't bloody well listen to him.

I agree with your sentiments but you should have beaten us well last night.

Just not sure you'd close out an AI final. Not sure Horan is either anymore.

I think he might be better holding up his own hand regarding last year's 2nd half and the defensive match-ups the previous year.

He has done superbly over the last 3 years. But Mayo want to win Sam and ultimately that is the standard required. The problems that need to be addressed to get us over the line are not limited to the players.

[Farrandeelin]

What were the postmatch manager interviews like? I imagine Gavin would be his usual calm, composed self. Whereas Horan may be struggling for answers??

[Captain Obvious]

Only a Mayoman could write that post.

That was a disaster last night for Mayo. How could you lose that game.

They'll be showing replays of that game for years as an example of how not to close a game out.

On us we're not playing great but nothing wrong with our cojones. Coming down the stretch even if we're behind I'd fancy us. But we are trying to do the impossible this year in retaining Sam.

Wow I agree with most of your post Indiana. Not often that happens.

However on your last point I disagree.

I only see one team capable of beating the Dubs this year and that is us, and only as long as it isn't the Final.

Impossible this year in retaining Sam? in fairness not many outstanding teams around. Tyrone,Donegal,Cork,Kerry aren't at the level they were when winning All Ireland's and another Dublin v Mayo final looks the most likely this September.

[easytiger95]

Horan very upfront, said they were doing crazy things - seemed a little bit shell shocked. As for Gavin, said exactly the same things as he always says, except he also said he had no problem with the red card as Cluxton had clearly tripped him. I'd say there's a few lads out in Donnycarney tonight poring over their dictionaries as to whether it was a trip or a kick. Straight red suggests the umpires told the ref that it was a kick.

Good performance from the umpires last night - they get enough slagging when things go wrong, should acknowledge them when they do things right.

[INDIANA]

Only a Mayoman could write that post.

That was a disaster last night for Mayo. How could you lose that game.

They'll be showing replays of that game for years as an example of how not to close a game out.

On us we're not playing great but nothing wrong with our cojones. Coming down the stretch even if we're behind I'd fancy us. But we are trying to do the impossible this year in retaining Sam.

Wow I agree with most of your post Indiana. Not often that happens.

However on your last point I disagree.

I only see one team capable of beating the Dubs this year and that is us, and only as long as it isn't the Final.

Impossible this year in retaining Sam? in fairness not many outstanding teams around. Tyrone,Donegal,Cork,Kerry aren't at the level they were when winning All Ireland's and another Dublin v Mayo final looks the most likely this September.

Some of our players look noticeably knackered. I'd say that's a bigger impediment then the standard

[moysider]

Only a Mayoman could write that post.

That was a disaster last night for Mayo. How could you lose that game.

They'll be showing replays of that game for years as an example of how not to close a game out.

On us we're not playing great but nothing wrong with our cojones. Coming down the stretch even if we're behind I'd fancy us. But we are trying to do the impossible this year in retaining Sam.

Wow I agree with most of your post Indiana. Not often that happens.

However on your last point I disagree.

I only see one team capable of beating the Dubs this year and that is us, and only as long as it isn't the Final.

Surprised Horan has any hair left with that Mayo team. You'd have to feel for him. You cannot coach decision making into players who obviously won't bloody well listen to him.

I agree with your sentiments but you should have beaten us well last night.

Just not sure you'd close out an AI final. Not sure Horan is either anymore.

I agree with you that this was a disaster.

Not sure I feel for James Horan though. He s done a fantastic job since he came in but the summit seems beyond him.
What I don t understand is how the same players continue to do so called crazy things. It goes beyond individual decision making I believe. Good training and coaching takes alot of the old off the cuff out of the equation.
If Aidan O Shea -who had a horse of a game in many respects- mixed up his bullocking runs with a few fast offloads to the runner on his shoulder we could have won that at a canter.  He keeps the opposition honest and guessing, he puts runners away and can go in support or hold. He also takes less timber in contact and lasts longer. He needs to be there for the end game and not in the stand. A bit of an adjustment to his game and everybody benefits. How hard can that be?I d guess where fans' frustration with the player is.
Horan's in a difficult situation now. He is conservative in selection and he probably has a selection and shape of a team in his head that is going to be hard to shake even after last night. A lot of coaches are like that - it is human nature to stick with what you know even if it hasn t worked great in the past.
This leage has raised more questions than it has answered and Horan is in the thick of things. I think we played into Rory O Carrolls hands by having Freeman play as a still target for so much of the game. Meat and drink to the Dub. When Sweeney came in we played dinky ball into the corners with more joy. Why was Freeman not told to work the corners? It was evident early he would get little joy with high ball.
Next week is a must win now for us. We simply have to get back to hq again this spring at least once to play this disaster out of the system. Need to get more of Gallagher and Parsons on the field too. If we keep coming back the same way we ll keep losing in the same way.

[joemamas]

Not having a go at you for 'sticking the boot in the management', but, does anybody seriously think our 1 to 9 is as good as anyone elses. I mean, 2-19, 2-15, 1-13, 3-9, 2-14 and now 3-14... I was worried against Kildare when we conceded 2-19, but to keep this high concession rate going in every league match, it seems odd to me that we have the best backs in the country.

As an aside, I haven't seen Derry at all yet, but they drew with Tyrone (who beat us by 6), and beat Dublin by 6 (who we could only draw with). I cannot get over the sheer condescending manner of which Mayo fans are viewing Derry. And they will come to C'bar high in confidence in getting something too.

Derry will have semi final spot secured after today. The amount Mayo are conceding has to be a concern however you are one win away from reaching the semi final and should have beaten the All Ireland champions last night. Reading over this thread i'd wonder what you Mayo supporters would be like if in division two and not knowing if you are coming or going?

Don't take a look at the comments on mayogaablog.com so, some are discussing who should replace Horan...

Horan is the best thing to happen to Mayo in years.

+ 1 mayo are miles ahead of where they were anytime in last 15 years.

Re Mayo gaablog,  Willie joe seems like a decent genuine person, they are some intelligent blogers on that site, who provide some interesting points, but there are some real clowns who appear to have graduated from hogan stand university.

points regarding last night, no particular order, and i will preface my comments by saying that I totally respect the effort the players are putting in.

Donal Vaughan, why when in possession does he choose kick the ball into a 50/50 situation, he should watch a video of that game 50 times. If he does not change he should be replaced otherwise opposing teams will just back off him, given his poor kick passing and poor shooting averages.

A O Se, mixed review, MDM only touched the ball twice in the first half, I thought Dublin were being cleaned out at midfield even prior to sending off. why oh why doe A O SE continue to over carry the ball, he is in incredible shape but can only take some many tackles in a game before he is shagged. other teams have to be taking note of this. Do not agree that his subbing was the reason we drew, Parsons caught two kick outs after he was introduced, mistakes were made elsewhere.

Hennelly great shotstopper, but caught off line for first goal, when he had ample coverage. he also blasted a clearance forty yard alone the ground when he had a colleague open six feet away. that led directly to a Dublin point, next series resulted in Dublins second goal.  Also got lucky with another shitty clearance in second half. Q why was he kicking ball out long in last twenty mins when we were well ahead and a man up. were dublin continually able to cover our extra man, i would doubt it.

Andy Moran, not sure what to say, a lot of good mixed in with a fair bit of bad. it is now very evident that he no longer possess the speed for the modern game, this was highlighted in second half when he got possession a yard ahead of a dublin back, and instead of heading straight for goal, he checked back and laid the ball off. The arising around at the end of the game, it is maybe okay to pass four or five times laterally, but again with an extra man no excuse for not moving ball forward, in the last ffinn minute three points up. Stupid stupid.

Alan freeman, does more of the blame go to the distributors of the ball, probably, however there seemed to be little or no lateral movement inside, even though we were playing a two man full forward line. if barry moran was full forward it may have worked. Freeman looked like he was out manned,

i have highlighted the negatives/ my concerns.


congrats to both teams for a great game, it was a spectacle. the black card whole not perfect has improved the game in my mind.
Referee, that he was very harsh on mayo in first half, a few very dubious non calls, on particular shoulder into the side of a mayoman as he was attempting to pick up the ball.
Boyle black card deserved, thought Dublin could have got one for tackle on o se in first half and connollys on keegan in second half.
How long before MDM gets the line for lashing out, after he is tackled. he did it twice yesterday, ref choose to ignore, i highlighted this after dublin v kildare game, continues to get away with it. He could have seen straight red twice in the leagues so far.
Bigger Q , the umpire called off a mayo goal when doherty picked the ball off the ground before netting, ref did not see it and gave the goal, then on advice from upmpire disallowed it, Doherty did pick up the ball off the ground, however, what if a player was tripped or held up off the ball while trying to block, assuming the ref does not see it does an umpire now have the power to disallow a score on the basis of his judgement on an event that took place leading up to the score, scary stuff indeed. i think back to the two clowns umpiring the meath v louth leinster final.

Thanks to both teams, I may be wrong , but Mayo better off with a draw than winning by six given the circumstances,  their poor passing, and lackluster defense, Dublin may have done them a favor, who knows.

Only a Mayoman could write that post.

That was a disaster last night for Mayo. How could you lose that game.

They'll be showing replays of that game for years as an example of how not to close a game out.

On us we're not playing great but nothing wrong with our cojones. Coming down the stretch even if we're behind I'd fancy us. But we are trying to do the impossible this year in retaining Sam.

to respond,

i would rather the mayo backs concede 2-2 or whatever it was in the last five mins in March rather than August, they will have learned something from it. similarly, i also don't think we will get caught again doing something as stupid as trying to run out the clock in such a manner. we ended the game without potentially two of our starting backs and potentially both of our midfielders.
i don't think last night was a disaster, we won midfield rather easily, when the shit hit the fan, a few players made some poor choices, that was the difference last night between winning and drawing(not losing). If you believe that mayo will not learn anything from last night,  then my post is completely wrong.

[Farrandeelin]

I hope you're right joemamas, but we're constantly hearing the same stuff from supporters, hoping they'll learn and it'll right itself later in the year. I have to say that I agree with Indiana. Horan has got us to where no other manager has, but since last September, I don't know if he's the man to lead us to the promised land.

But I'm not looking forward to the day that he goes either. Anyway, I did say Dublin's forwards looked scary...and when Bernard Brogan comes back, God help the rest of the country.

[Wildweasel74]

Only thing that beat Dublin this year is themselves

[moysider]

I hope you're right joemamas, but we're constantly hearing the same stuff from supporters, hoping they'll learn and it'll right itself later in the year. I have to say that I agree with Indiana. Horan has got us to where no other manager has, but since last September, I don't know if he's the man to lead us to the promised land.

But I'm not looking forward to the day that he goes either. Anyway, I did say Dublin's forwards looked scary...and when Bernard Brogan comes back, God help the rest of the country.

Don t forget last year Kerry had a chance to take the lead with a minute to go in the semi. We blew the final.
Dublin have got so much going for them though that it is a bad time for us to be challenging for an AI but I suppose there ll always be a Dublin or a Kerry waiting to give us a slap in a final.

The Croke Park factor is huge for them. They play all big games there and it brings out the best in them in big championship games. Croke Park seems to be an issue for us now in finals.
Dublin should win Leinster again without much fuss and can arrive fresh and peaking at the right time. They re in a great position to win again but they can be beaten by 2/3 teams.

I agree with you regarding the learning and it ll be alright later. I don t buy that because it just doesn t happen. In any sport you can t just switch bad habits and good practice on and off just like that. It s part of the package and the crazy stuff as James puts it is part and package of his teams whether he likes it or not.
This is James' 4th league and championship year. His teams have been a joy to watch most of the time and there is no doubt that they play this type of game because that is the way he wants them to play. The personnel have changed very little and some have developed into outstanding footballers and a few are still developing under his tenure.
However the same mistakes are still showing up in Spring year 4. And it s not like several new players are being introduced and teething problems are happening. Sadly it appears that the turnovers, poor shot selection, overcarrying into traffic, bad decision making and failure to get a ff line functoning are part of the DNA of this team. Problems that are endemic in this bunch and if Horan could solve it he would have done so by now so no point being optimistic for later.

[INDIANA]

Only thing that beat Dublin this year is themselves

Maybe but you only have to drop it five percent and 2-3 teams will beat us

[Lar Naparka]

Jaysus, how did Mayo not win that by ten points?

No lessons learned from last year? Hope the QE2 in midfield plays there all summer

Arrah, shag off, will ya; no need to rub it in!
Unfortunately, a lot of others, especially opposing managers and players, will share your sentiments.
Unlike good wine, poor Aidan is not improving with age. Some of his old negative habits are beginning to show again. He's gone back to trying to walk the ball through a gaggle off opposition players and nine times out of ten, he loses possession.
He's not noted for his powers of acceleration, to put it mildly and can't build up a head of stem over a few yards so it's easy enough to gang up on him and turn the ball over.
It's all the more regrettable as he has excellent all around vision and is an excellent distributor as well.

I thought Aidan played well last night except when he decided to take off on one of his runs. On a positive side this can be worked on before the summer. Mayos midfield were better last night. Cillian is not back to match fitness yet, I can see him at 11 during the summer. Our 6 backs from last year haven't started a game together this year hence the high amount of scores conceded. McLoughlin is back playing well again this year. A few players in the wings to come back yet....its only March 30th FFS!

There are a lot of positives to be taken from last night's display but some of the old failings are still there and it's foolish to ignore them. I'm sure JH knows the score better than I do but whether he can address them or not remains to be seen.

Mayo should have won that game.
They were 1-14 to 0-11 ahead with about 6 minutes to go and yet were steeped inn luck to finish up with a draw. I know it's only a league game in March and there's no point in throwing the baby out with the bath water but there's equally no point in assuming that all problems will have been sorted out when the championship starts.

I know Mayo will be far sharper by then but the same can be said of Dublin and every other top side in the land. I'd say Jim Gavin is by far the happier of the mangers after last night's result.
The Dubs lost their captain and mainstay, Stephen Cluxton and had to field without a large number of their first choice fifteen and still came within a whisker of peeing on Mayo's parade.
BTW, I still think Mayo are one of the top five teams in the country and JH is still by far the best Mayo manager I've seen but there's no harm in doing a reality check from time to time and I bet James knows full well the task that lies ahead of him.
Yes, Aidan O'Shea handled a lot of ball but I don't think he made good use of it. There's little or no point in trying to push two or thee opponents out of your way if you could just off load the ball to a better placed and more mobile colleague. I've nothing personal against the man; I just feel that with a little bit more forethought he could be a lot more effective.

[Hound]

Gavin, said exactly the same things as he always says, except he also said he had no problem with the red card as Cluxton had clearly tripped him. I'd say there's a few lads out in Donnycarney tonight poring over their dictionaries as to whether it was a trip or a kick. Straight red suggests the umpires told the ref that it was a kick.

The key issue re Cluxton now is what suspension he gets. If its regarded as

"To kick or attempt to kick an opponent, with minimal force" - its a 4 week ban (cat II).

Or

"To kick an opponent either with force or causing injury" - its an 8 week ban (cat III).

They're minimum bans but given he hasnt been in trouble recently I don't think they'd be extended.

A 4 week bank means he'd miss the semis if Dublin got there. 8 weeks would mean he'd miss the final, if Dubs got there. He'd be back for the championship though either way.

There was talk of changing the suspensions to 1 match for Cat II and 2 matches for Cat III. Not sure if that came in or not? If it did and he got Cat II he would be back for the semis. Or if it was Cat III and 2 match ban and Dubs didnt make the semis, then he'd have to miss the first match of NFL 2015. Papers seems to be talking about time bans, so presumably the match bans didnt come in.

[Crete Boom]

Well my fear about the sloppy goals costing us a win came true ( although I was sure we would lose rather than draw). It's something that has happened in the finals of 2012/2013 and now has started happening in every game in the league so far!! Also our usual lack of composure to close out a tight game or take our goal chances at crucial times is still there for all to see which must drive Horan mad at this stage and for me anyway outweighs many of the positive parts of the performance on Sat night.I did think Aidan O Shea put in a decent shift but is still too slow to move the ball and Mikey Sweeney showed the guile that makes him a good prospect for the summer but in the end the same old failings cost us (and definitely will cost us at the business end of the championship unless we get a huge slice of luck!!) the win against the Dubs.

Gavin, said exactly the same things as he always says, except he also said he had no problem with the red card as Cluxton had clearly tripped him. I'd say there's a few lads out in Donnycarney tonight poring over their dictionaries as to whether it was a trip or a kick. Straight red suggests the umpires told the ref that it was a kick.

The key issue re Cluxton now is what suspension he gets. If its regarded as

"To kick or attempt to kick an opponent, with minimal force" - its a 4 week ban (cat II).

Or

"To kick an opponent either with force or causing injury" - its an 8 week ban (cat III).

They're minimum bans but given he hasnt been in trouble recently I don't think they'd be extended.

A 4 week bank means he'd miss the semis if Dublin got there. 8 weeks would mean he'd miss the final, if Dubs got there. He'd be back for the championship though either way.

There was talk of changing the suspensions to 1 match for Cat II and 2 matches for Cat III. Not sure if that came in or not? If it did and he got Cat II he would be back for the semis. Or if it was Cat III and 2 match ban and Dubs didnt make the semis, then he'd have to miss the first match of NFL 2015. Papers seems to be talking about time bans, so presumably the match bans didnt come in.

Maybe could be a blessing in disguise as whoever is the backup could desperately do with some meaningful game time in case Cluxton gets injured later on in the year?