Best footballer ever from your county.

[nrico2006]

All that is ever really said about McGuigan is the 11 points against Armagh.  How good were Armagh then anyway?  How many more games did Canavan contribute as much if not more?  I'd say he did it alot.

I think we all forget how good Canavan was.  You always tend to remember the player as he was near the end, and while Canavan was still brilliant in the noughties he was untouchable in the mid 90s.  There are a few videos of him on youtube that simply amaze me when I watch them again.  Countless examples of him fetching a ball, going on Messi-esque runs around defender after defender and scoring points galore.  The Gooch is one of the all time greats, but neither him or McGuigan were as good as Canavan was at his best.

[Walter Cronc]

All that is ever really said about McGuigan is the 11 points against Armagh.  How good were Armagh then anyway?  How many more games did Canavan contribute as much if not more?  I'd say he did it alot.

I think we all forget how good Canavan was.  You always tend to remember the player as he was near the end, and while Canavan was still brilliant in the noughties he was untouchable in the mid 90s.  There are a few videos of him on youtube that simply amaze me when I watch them again.  Countless examples of him fetching a ball, going on Messi-esque runs around defender after defender and scoring points galore.  The Gooch is one of the all time greats, but neither him or McGuigan were as good as Canavan was at his best.

I'm not taking away from how good Canavan was, he caused Derry all sorts of bother until Sean Marty came on the scene What you fail to point out is that there were no blanket defences in the early/mid 90's. The Gooch would have ran riot had he been around in that period. However it should be also noted that Kerry werent as strong then.

[under the bar]

A testimony as to how good Canavan was is that men used to drive up regularly from Cork and Kerry to watch Errigal Ciaran league matches just to witness the little maestro in action!   

[Main Street]

Mick O'Connell might have been good for his day, but he wouldn't make my top 5.

1. Jacko
2. Spillane
3. Moynihan
4. Maurice Fitz
5. Cooper

That could change every hour of the day, but Jacko is the best I've seen.

I realise you are spoilt for choice down there, but is Micko excluded because he was before your time or you rate Jacko above him, having seen Micko in the 1960's?

[EC Unique]

All that is ever really said about McGuigan is the 11 points against Armagh.  How good were Armagh then anyway?  How many more games did Canavan contribute as much if not more?  I'd say he did it alot.
I think we all forget how good Canavan was.  You always tend to remember the player as he was near the end, and while Canavan was still brilliant in the noughties he was untouchable in the mid 90s.  There are a few videos of him on youtube that simply amaze me when I watch them again.  Countless examples of him fetching a ball, going on Messi-esque runs around defender after defender and scoring points galore.  The Gooch is one of the all time greats, but neither him or McGuigan were as good as Canavan was at his best.

Canavan scored 11 points for Tyrone in a senior Championship game as well! Happened to be an All-Ireland final.

[nrico2006]

All that is ever really said about McGuigan is the 11 points against Armagh.  How good were Armagh then anyway?  How many more games did Canavan contribute as much if not more?  I'd say he did it alot.
I think we all forget how good Canavan was.  You always tend to remember the player as he was near the end, and while Canavan was still brilliant in the noughties he was untouchable in the mid 90s.  There are a few videos of him on youtube that simply amaze me when I watch them again.  Countless examples of him fetching a ball, going on Messi-esque runs around defender after defender and scoring points galore.  The Gooch is one of the all time greats, but neither him or McGuigan were as good as Canavan was at his best.

Canavan scored 11 points for Tyrone in a senior Championship game as well! Happened to be an All-Ireland final.

That jumps out but how many were from play.  In saying that, a lot of Canavans frees in those days were ones he won himself and were chances he was likely to score from prior to being fouled.

What were his biggest tallies for Tyrone?  What did he get in the U-21 Final v Kerry?

[EC Unique]

Can't understand this talk of McGuigan better than Canavan? Canavan IMHO is the best that has ever played the game never mind Tyrone. This is no insult to McGuigan as he was quality but not better than PTG.

All a matter of opinion and debate.

Mc Guigan didn't even work at his game and look how good he was.
Had Frank been around today and had the benefit of modern day training regime, nutrition, diet, strength and conditioning etc etc, it's scary to think of the type of player he'd have been such was the natural raw talent that he possessed.
The same would apply to a good few others of that era it is fair to say as well.

Peter was an incredible player as well. He worked hard at it and trained and practiced at length.

So it's hard to say who was best given the different eras.

I know who had the most natural raw talent.

O'Muireachartaigh put Canavan in the corner and Frank in the middle.

Imagine had Mc Guigan been in the middle feeding Canavan instead of Canavan having to win his own ball before finishing ?.

He would also come against much better defending!

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Have to say I disagree strongly on a few things...

1. Tompkins - In the AI final of 1988 (if you can find it somewhere.) In the drawn game Tompkins gives a performance that only Maurice Fitz in 1997 and Joyce in 2001 come close to equalling in my time watching finals. He was majestic. Absolutely dominated the game against a very good Meath team. Came into midfield fielding ball, got forward and kicked some massive scores aswell. He was absolutely brilliant for those 4 years 87-90, winning 3 Allstars and should have got the 4th probably aswell. His profile will have suffered a bit because after 1990 Cork slipped massively, caught on the hop by us in 1991, well beaten in 1992 and average thereafter for a few years. I hated the man as a young fella but he was absolute class.

2. Canavan - I would put him on a pedestal with Maurice Fitz and Gooch as the 3 best forwards I've seen. Stevie O'Neill was as talented as them in spurts, but not on same level due to inconsistency and unfortunate injuries. You could have arguments (and I have had many!) over who was better, but I'd rather just agree that they were 3 marvellous players to watch..slightly different the 3 of them, but brilliant in their own ways.
Fitz would just glide past people (sometimes forgotten he was a big man and played midfield a fair bit) and then with a languid flash of the boot would swing scores over from any angle.
Canavan would throw 4 dummy solos, ship 3 kicks in the ankles and still kick a score with either foot.
Gooch, would throw 3 defenders off course with one movement of his hands, swing over scores with either foot or throw cross field passes to team mates with ease.
All different styles, but all great to watch.

Matt Connor, I've only seen footage of, but was obviously an excellent player before his career ending accident. Pity we didn't get to see more of him.
Egan just beat fellas with raw power, the man was a tank! He could finish with both feet of course and threw a lovely dummy aswell. Amazing to think what the likes of him COULD have done with modern training, but we'll never know. Like some other sportsmen, John was also unfortunately never playing at his full potential as he had a serious drinking problem which contributed to his sad passing at a young age. Indeed 3 of the great Kerry team have left us all in their mid to early 50's.

Sorry, rambled a bit, but basically just think Fitz/Gooch/Canavan in no order are on a different plain to any forwards I've seen play the game.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Mick O'Connell might have been good for his day, but he wouldn't make my top 5.

1. Jacko
2. Spillane
3. Moynihan
4. Maurice Fitz
5. Cooper

That could change every hour of the day, but Jacko is the best I've seen.

I realise you are spoilt for choice down there, but is Micko excluded because he was before your time or you rate Jacko above him, having seen Micko in the 1960's?

Mick O'Connell? Way before my time. To me though, you can't compare football back in those days with the modern game as its not fair or equal...BUT, in my mind, Mick O'Connell was a great fielder, great free taker, yes..but couldn't compare to Jack O'Shea or Darragh in terms of overall skill. I mean I know it was rare at that time to be two footed, but when kicking with the left foot Micko just threw the ball up with his right hand and hoofed it..in the modern game he would be blocked/dispossessed multiple times trying that.

It isn't fair comparing anyone from that era like I said, different game altogether, but won't hear of any argument that O'Connell was better than Jacko personally. Have war with the grandfather over this all the time..and thats before we get into talking about Paddy Kennedy!

[mad tan]

Every one has their own favourite player. From my own County Paul Barden is up there with the best. But Dessie Barry and Frank McNamee form the 80s. Going further back to the 60s Jim Hannify,  Sean Murray, Jimmy Flynn and Bobby Burns can not be ingored

[the Deel Rover]

This thread should be closed page 7 and no mention of Larry Reilly. 

[nrico2006]

Stephen O'Neill is the player that could have been up there if his career hadn't been decimated with injury.  He rose to prominence at an early age but University committments etc curtailed his involvement in 2003, although he came on to kick 2 points that took Tyrone home.  In 2005 he had a summer no player has matched since.  He was untouchable that year and in my time watching football there has been no player better at scoring off either foot.  Unfortunately, the beginning of 2006 saw the start of the saerious knee and hamstring injuries that were to affect him for the rest of his career.  He still had a lot of good moments, but to be honest was never the same player again due to training restrictions and long term impact that the injuries had on his speed and agility. 

[seafoid]

All that is ever really said about McGuigan is the 11 points against Armagh.  How good were Armagh then anyway?  How many more games did Canavan contribute as much if not more?  I'd say he did it alot.

I think we all forget how good Canavan was.  You always tend to remember the player as he was near the end, and while Canavan was still brilliant in the noughties he was untouchable in the mid 90s.  There are a few videos of him on youtube that simply amaze me when I watch them again.  Countless examples of him fetching a ball, going on Messi-esque runs around defender after defender and scoring points galore.  The Gooch is one of the all time greats, but neither him or McGuigan were as good as Canavan was at his best.

Frank McGuigan was away in the States before 84 and he had a car crash that ended his career shortly afterwards

This song was written about people like him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsNTmjlf1vI

Canavan was sensible but Frank showed him the way

Kieran Shannon's article on Frank McGuigan, printed in the Sunday Tribune on 21 September 2003 and reproduced here, has won this year's McNamee award for the best GAA article in a national newspaper.

The rise, fall and rise again of Tyrone's greatest player Brian McGuigan's father Frank is a true legend of the game, despite a career overshadowed by alcoholism A boy goes to a match with his father. It's in Clones, the 1984 Ulster final, his own Tyrone playing Armagh. It leaves him mesmerised. At full-forward for Tyrone is Frank McGuigan, the man just back from America. It's as if he's never been away. Armagh put three men on him and it makes no difference. Eleven times the ball is played into him, 11 times he scores. Five with his right, five with his left, one with his fist. The 13 year-old goes home to Glencull that night. He makes a decision. He wants to be a two-footed player. He wants to be Frank McGuigan. So he hits the local pitch and starts kicking ball after ball over thea posts. A few weeks later, a video of the match is floating around Tyrone. His father gets it for him. The boy studies it "three to 70 times". He keeps going to that pitch in Glencull, working on his left, his right, his dummy solo. Nineteen years later, that same boy kicks 11 points in an Ulster final. He's captain of his team the same day. When he collects the cup, he thanks his father who has just passed away for bringing him to Clones all those years ago. Peter Canavan never played underage club football. He didn't have to. A vision of Frank McGuigan was enough.
"'84, yeah. Ach, I did rightly but I was past my best at that stage. It was a thing I never got too excited about, to be honest, football. I always took it as something that you had or you hadn't. I wasn't prepared to work with it like. I could drink on a Saturday night and go out and play on the Sunday and it wouldn't seem to bother me. I wish I had been about today when I'd have known the importance of winning an All Ireland; I could have made a fortune out of it. In our time winning Ulster was the big thing. Like, f**k it after that. Because we drank and we drank and we drank. Especially me. I try to preach to the young boys now, OEFuck the drink.' I'm five years not drinking now and I'm the happiest I've ever been. I wouldn't have what I have with Brian and the kids if I hadn't done something. But see me there when I was drinking? I wouldn't have cared if the house was on fire. "Looking back, I'll never understand why I drank after the accident. I sometimes wonder if I hadn't got hurtS That's my one regret, that I let myself crash. When Brian and the boys were starting out in that school field back there, I couldn't go down with them. I'm not talking about coaching them like, I mean just kicking around with them. But then I probably would have been too busy drinking anyway. I might go without it for six months, then drink for three weeks. And I mean three weeks of pure f**king drink. Christ, you talk about George Best!S"
In Ulster football, Frank McGuigan is George Best; either the best player you've seen or the best you've never seen. Damien Barton says possibly the greatest privilege in his career was to come on for Derry in a McKenna Cup game in Cookstown and be on the same pitch as Frank McGuigan; Barton has won an All Ireland. Barton's old coach, Eamon Coleman, would cross the county bounds just to see McGuigan play. Only Mick O'Connell and Jim McKeever, Coleman reckons, could catch a ball as well as McGuigan. It was as if he was floating in the air, a skill McGuigan himself puts down to his parents' house in Ardboe; it mightn't have had any electricity, but it had a roof which he'd throw a tennis ball onto time and time again. Noel McGinn, who played with McGuigan in that famous Ulster final in 1984, swears that in one under-21 game against Cavan in Dungannon, a pile of players were around the square waiting for this high ball to come in when McGuigan just hung in the air, took it down with one hand and waltzed out with it. Mickey Harte played with the Tyrone minor team which McGuigan captained to an Ulster title in 1972. McGuigan, he says, was the most versatile and gifted player he has ever seen. He could catch a ball as if he had never left the ground. He could point with either foot. And he had that dummy solo. Harte maintains it should be called the McGuigan dummy. He's seen plenty of players, from Tony McManus to Canavan, perfect it since McGuigan. No one had even tried it before McGuigan. Martin McHugh can appreciate that. He played with McGuigan in the 1984 Railway Cup final. That day McGuigan had his back to goal and made this swivel with his hips which Connacht's Stephen Kinneavy bought completely. That goal won Ulster the Railway Cup. "I'd never seen a move like it before," says McHugh, "and I've never seen anything like it since." In Tyrone, they hadn't seen anything like him either. By the time he was 16, he already had legions of grown men who'd go anywhere in the county just to see him play. One day they went to see Ardboe against Carrickmore in the championship. There was a strong breeze that day. In the first half, Ardboe were playing with it, so they put McGuigan centre-forward where he ran up a big score to give Ardboe a considerable lead. In the second half they moved him to centre-back to defend it. He did. Sixteen year-olds weren't meant to do that against Carrickmore. Seventeen year-olds weren't meant to destroy Bellaghy either. That's what McGuigan did though in one Ulster club championship game. Coleman reckons that it was as good a display from midfield as the one McGuigan gave from full-forward against Armagh in '84. McGuigan himself thinks it was even better.
And so it continued. By the time he was 18 he had captained the Tyrone minors to the Ulster title and come on for the seniors the same day. By the time he was 19 he had once again been up the steps in Clones, this time to claim the title for the seniors. By the time he was 23 he had already been a four-time All Star replacement. He was a legend. He was also an alcoholic. The two went hand in hand. Frank McGuigan didn't have to buy a drink. Everyone loved his affable manner and everyone loved to say they bought Frank McGuigan a drink. After a match he'd be having a whiskey, when he'd look around and there would be another 10 glasses around him. Some were concerned. Jody O'Neill, McGuigan's old friend and county coach, says that in 1973, the same year McGuigan inspired Tyrone to the senior and under-21 Ulster titles, the county board told O'Neill to cut McGuigan. O'Neill, the county manager, said that if McGuigan went, so would he. Drink didn't seem to affect McGuigan on the pitch. The Saturday night before an All-Ireland under-21 semi-final in Galway, supporters found McGuigan lying drunk on a pavement; he was Tyrone's best player the next day. He had a habit of that. Johnny Hughes of Galway tells a story about the man he reckons was the greatest player and character he ever came across. One year on an All Star trip, Hughes knocked on McGuigan's door, wondering if he'd be able to play after an hour-and-a-half of sleep. "Frank got up and destroyed Brian Mullins. He was head and shoulders above everyone else that day." Some days he wasn't. McGuigan recalls one Ulster championship against Derry in '76. He had come home loaded at five in the morning. A few hours later the taxi appeared to bring him to the game in Clones. "My father never told me what to do or not to do about football in his life. But that morning he said, OESon, do the team a favour. Don't go to that game.' I was still drunk in the dressing room. I got a point but I can't remember anything about it. Derry won and ended up winning Ulster. We'd have won it if I hadn't been drunk. But again, I never put a pile of thought into it." Then he went to America and became the king of Gaelic Park. "Went." He laughs at that. Makes it sound like a decision. He tells how he "went" to America. In 1977, he was an All Star replacement. They arrived in Kennedy Airport on the Friday night and basically drank until the game that Sunday. After the game they drank some more until the bus came to bring them back to JFK. "Go on to f**k, I'm staying," McGuigan laughed to Sean Doherty. And he did. The next thing he was waking up in an apartment in the Bronx and the lads from Cookstown were away to work. That's how he "went" to America. For six years. He enjoyed it there. Met a girl, Geraldine, got married, had kids. Got a job in construction ("Didn't do a lot, I can assure you. The best job any man could have!"). No one bothered him there. He liked that, the neighbours not knowing who he was. At home, everyone did. Everyone does. Earlier this year Brian went out with his girlfriend and a few clubmates in Cookstown. Some of the clubmates got drunk. The next day Mickey Harte was asking Brian had he drank. Brian hadn't. Why had someone told Mickey he had?
Tyrone flew Frank McGuigan home to help them out in '82 and '83. Then they asked him to move home for good. He did; the kids would soon be starting school. The following July he kicked those 11 points. He hadn't lost it. Other habits hadn't faded either. One Saturday that November, he took a few hours from building his house to play a club league game for Ardboe. It was in the Moy against the Moy; Sean Cavanagh's father, Teddy, marked him. After the game he jumped into his Hiace van and was on the way home when he looked to his right and spotted a few Ardboe cars outside a pub. He turned round and had a few there. When he finally left for Ardboe, it wasn't for the house but for Forbes' bar, the place where he works now. They tell him that they actually had the keys off him but that somehow he got them back. By the time he came round he was in an ambulance on the M2 to Belfast. He couldn't understand why he couldn't walk. Then they told him that he crashed into the local church wall, that his right leg was completely shattered and that he could never play football again. He was just glad to be alive. "I was a very, very lucky boy. I'm able to get around the place, even if one leg is shorter than the other. Like, Matt Connor was in a crash the month after and it left him paralysed. I'd be grateful for things like that. And that I didn't hurt anyone else." He thinks of all the other things he could have been doing. Ireland were having trials for the Compromise Rules series that day but McGuigan had turned down the invite, telling the selectors that he was too busy building his house. "Normally," he laughs, "I wouldn't put work ahead of anything!" As that day turned out, he still put the drink ahead of it. The drink would continue to be put ahead of everything. When the little boy Canavan played in the 1995 All Ireland final, McGuigan didn't even see it; instead he lay in his car in Dublin, drunk. Once he managed to give it up for about a year when he went off to Clare for a golfing weekend. "We were in the clubhouse after our first round when I said, OEOkay, I'll have one of those nice pints of Guinness, no more and go back to the hotel.' I didn't play golf for the rest of the trip. I actually slept on the bus, all the way from Clare to here, and it's a long, long way from Clare to here." A fall-out was inevitable. One day when he finished a lengthy binge, he found Geraldine was gone and had taken the kids with her. He immediately turned to the drink again but realised there were no solutions in it. It was the problem. So he went for help in a clinic in Derry. For six weeks. Not to get Geraldine back, but to get Frank McGuigan back. He hated Frank McGuigan when he drank. All those years, they weren't fun. At times he thought they were, but they weren't. "How can you be having fun if you can't remember?" He's a new man now, this past five years.

A happy man, bursting with his life. Brian, Tommy and the youngest lad, 11 year-old Shay, are all back with him. It's a different life; when they come home at five o'clock, he's there. Gerry and himself are still friends. So are all the kids. When he sees fellas who he knows are drinking too much, he tells them they won't believe the benefits of coming off it. He's been to America twice, Portugal three times, golfing. He plans to go to Australia sometime. Things he'd never have been interested in if he were drinking. That's why he's not afraid to tell his story. People must know how lethal drink can be. He's concerned with the culture that goes with the GAA. Ardboe have a match two weeks after the All Ireland. Last week they had a team meeting where they agreed that if Tyrone won the All Ireland, they'd be off the drink by the Thursday. "It's very bad saying you're going to drink from Sunday to Wednesday. Why not just say, OEWe'll quit on Wednesday if we drink that length of time at all?'" McGuigan is coaching that Ardboe team. It's his first year involved and it's going well; that's a county semi-final they're playing in a fortnight's time. He says it's not him helping out Ardboe; it's Ardboe helping him. His sons Brian, Tommy and Frank all play for the club. It's another way of making up for lost time. "When I was drinking, I hurt people. Especially the kids. I had no patience when I drank. I wouldn't have gone to parent-teacher meetings, things like that. It's the least I owe them." The young lads are generating some folklore themselves. Last year Ardboe scored a goal that featured seven passes. Only the McGuigans were involved in it; no one else was on their wavelength. Twenty-five year-old Frank is on the senior panel. Nineteen year-old Tommy won a minor All Ireland two years ago and is on the county under-21 team; he'll be something else, maintains Frank Senior, if they can come up with a way to pay for the operation needed to sort out his knee once and for all. And then there's 23 year-old Brian. Frank says he doesn't give him any advice, that's what Mickey Harte is for. Harte maintains he has to say very little either; only Peter Canavan, the Tyrone manager reckons, has the same footballing brain. Art McRory once said it was impossible to give Frank McGuigan a bad pass; the current Tyrone team say it's impossible for Brian McGuigan to give one. "I've never seen him have a bad game this year," says his own father. "One pass and he can turn a game. He turned the Ulster final on it's head. For people to even say that the man-of-the-match that day was anyone else angers me. He should be recognised for the player he is. He's not and it's not fair. Like, the last day in Croke Park they announced him as OEBrian McGuigan, son of Frank McGuigan.'" Neither of them should take any offence that he was described as Frank's son. As Canavan would agree, in a way, every Tyrone footballer is.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Stephen O'Neill is the player that could have been up there if his career hadn't been decimated with injury.  He rose to prominence at an early age but University committments etc curtailed his involvement in 2003, although he came on to kick 2 points that took Tyrone home.  In 2005 he had a summer no player has matched since.  He was untouchable that year and in my time watching football there has been no player better at scoring off either foot.  Unfortunately, the beginning of 2006 saw the start of the saerious knee and hamstring injuries that were to affect him for the rest of his career.  He still had a lot of good moments, but to be honest was never the same player again due to training restrictions and long term impact that the injuries had on his speed and agility.

I agree..some of the scores, against Armagh and Dublin in particular, that he got that year were just outrageous. As good as anything or anyone I've ever seen. Pity that the injuries restricted him from there on.

[Beantown]

Imagine a full forward line of Gooch Fitz Canavan.  3 of the greatest forwards we are likely to see.. Unplayable...

On another note, Stephen ONeill has scored some of the best points corker has ever seen and was a joy to watch, pity injuries have taken their toll..

These days, Bernard Brogan is probably the only one who is near that level