Railway Cup 2014

[orangeman]

Is there any merit in playing it for example on the same day as the national league finals ?

Plenty of room in the stadium and no distraction with club or county championships. Ok, you might be missing a few from the participating counties but would that be such a big problem ?

i would have though maybe playing it alongside teh All ireland club finals might be a more sucessful spot for it.
possibly have the final underlights in croke park the night before st. patricks day. make it a occassion that people would go two to take in both games?

There'd be plenty of room in the stadium on club final day.


Staying over in Dublin costs a lot of money especially on 16th / 17th March when prices are at their highest.

But a sound enough idea nonetheless.

[Zulu]

I've probably said more on this issue than I need to, especially when I've no real problem with the Railway Cup. However, the reason I get so hot and bothered with posters defending the Railway Cup is because they are contributing to the absolute travesty of a competitive season that we have today.

Far too many GAA people talk out of both sides of their mouths, they bemoan the problems, especially at club level, but are unwilling to change anything. Some, as we see here, want to keep this farce, others will have a gra for minor, schools, universities or U21, others yet won't countenance changing the provincial championships or moving the club finals from St. Patricks day so how in the blue hell are we to improve things if nobody is willing to make any changes?

We just played 3 railway cup games that had a combined attendance of less than 1,000 yet people still want to keep it, bizarre. It is meant to be a representative team of the best players in each province yet some peoples solution is to play it on All Ireland final weekend or before the club finals therefore almost ensuring the teams competing won't be representative of the best players in each province, so why play it at all?

It's as simple as this, there needs to be a radical overhaul of the GAA season or there are serious problems coming down the tracks. If we can't even give up a non-event competition like this then we might as well strap ourselves in and wait for the disaster to come. And sure won't that be time enough to make the tough decisions. Financial crash anyone??

[AZOffaly]

I've probably said more on this issue than I need to, especially when I've no real problem with the Railway Cup. However, the reason and get so hot and bothered with posters defending the Railway Cup is because they are contributing to the absolute travesty of a competitive season that we have today.

Far too many GAA people talk out of both sides of their mouths, they bemoan the problems, especially at club level, but are unwilling to change anything. Some, as we see here, want to keep this farce, others will have a gra for minor, schools, universities or U21, others yet won't countenance changing the provincial championships or moving the club finals from St. Patricks day so how i the blue hell are we to improve things if nobody is willing to make any changes?

We just played 3 railway cup games that had a combined attendance of less than 1,000 yet people still want to keep it, bizarre. It is meant to be a representative team of the best players in each province yet some peoples solution is to play it on All Ireland final weekend or before the club finals therefore almost ensuring the teams competing won't be representative of the best players in each province so why play it at all?

It's as simple as this, there needs to be a radical overhaul of the GAA season or there are serious problems coming down the tracks. If we can't even give up a non-event competition like this then we might as well strap ourselves in and wait for the disaster to come. And sure won't that be time enough to make the tough decisions. Financial crash anyone??

Maybe the problem is not the Railway cup at all, but the fixture disaster in general. Maybe if someone did a root and branch overhaul of the fixtures calendar, and eliminated several stupid weekends out of the calendar of fixtures, then a real slot could be found for tournaments which the players at least seem to want to play. Getting rid of the qualifiers would be a start.

[Abble]

You can debate all you want about what time of the year its played or prior to such an event and whatever but its' not going to improve the attendances and interest if it continues.
Maybe its time to call an end to it and put everyone out of their misery trying to muster up an interest in it.

In this day and age surely a new competition can be thought up for the cream of our county's footballers and hurlers.

I'm going to be shot down here.
ok, we have huge debate on currently regarding player reward, professionalism in our games and all that. none of us want to see any form of payment being introduced in any of our games and national competitions.
BUT, maybe, just maybe we could introduce one competition where pay for player could be allowed, reward of some kind in a competition for our countrys finest footballers and hurlers for their efforts. A new competition could be introduced with loads of glitz and sold properly and based maybe on the format of the Railway Cup.

some kind of drastic change is needed but is this maybe a step too far ?!?!

[Zulu]

I disagree about the qualifiers AZ, whatever about the pros and cons of them they have a purpose and are part of a genuine competition. However, what you say is exactly what needs to be done but not just competitions, dual players and multi representation also has to be addressed. I'd start with a blank page and if the Railway cups can be played within a logical, structured season for all players then that's fine with me but in the meantime we need to cut the deadwood out and the Railway cup is certainly that.

[Zulu]

You can debate all you want about what time of the year its played or prior to such an event and whatever but its' not going to improve the attendances and interest if it continues.
Maybe its time to call an end to it and put everyone out of their misery trying to muster up an interest in it.

In this day and age surely a new competition can be thought up for the cream of our county's footballers and hurlers.

I'm going to be shot down here.
ok, we have huge debate on currently regarding player reward, professionalism in our games and all that. none of us want to see any form of payment being introduced in any of our games and national competitions.
BUT, maybe, just maybe we could introduce one competition where pay for player could be allowed, reward of some kind in a competition for our countrys finest footballers and hurlers for their efforts. A new competition could be introduced with loads of glitz and sold properly and based maybe on the format of the Railway Cup.

some kind of drastic change is needed but is this maybe a step too far ?!?!

While I'm all for people coming up with solutions to problems, I really don't see inter county players losing one or two games out of their season as a problem. What's wrong with just letting it go the way of the dodo? Of all the issues we have in the GAA at the moment this is one of the least important.

[ck]

On paper the Connacht team wasn't in the same league as the Ulster team but totally outplayed them. I'm wondering if Ulster even care about the RC as much as they used to?

[AZOffaly]

I think the qualifiers are a pile of shite to be honest, but then again I'm from Offaly so I'm biased. I think the idea we spoke about a while ago, where you would join the leagues and championship would be better. Let the league placings determine your seeding in the provincial championship. Play the championship as straight knockout with top seed v bottom seed.

If we were to stop today, the Knockout championships would be

Leinster

#1 Dublin
#2 Kildare
#3 Westmeath
#4 Meath
#5 Laois
#6 Louth
#7 Wexford
#8 Longford
#9 Offaly
#10 Wicklow
#11 Carlow

Munster

#1 Cork
#2 Kerry
#3 Limerick
#4 Clare
#5 Tipperary
#6 Waterford

Connacht

#1 Mayo
#2 Galway
#3 Roscommon
#4 Sligo
#5 Leitrim
#6 London

Ulster

#1 Tyrone
#2 Derry
#3 Donegal
#4 Monaghan
#5 Down
#6 Armagh
#7 Cavan
#8 Fermanagh
#9 Antrim

The Leinster Championship would be

1st round  #11 Carlow v #6 Louth, #10 Wicklow v #7 Wexford; #9 Offaly v #8 Longford.
Quarter Finals #5 Laois v #4 Meath; #3  Westmeath v (LH or CW); #2 Kildare v (WW or WX); #1 Dublin v (OY or LD)
Semi Finals : (D/OY/LD) v (LS/MH); (KE/WW/WX) v (WH/LH/CW)

Munster Championship

1st Round: #6 Waterford v #3 Limerick; #5 Tipperary v #4 Clare
Semi Final : #2 Kerry v (L or WD); #1 Cork v (T/CE)

Connacht Championship

1st Round : #6 London v #3 Roscommon; #5 Leitrim v #4 Sligo
Semi Final: #2 Galway v (Lon/RN); #1 Mayo v (LM/SO)

Ulster Championship
1st Round : #9 Antrim v #8 Fermanagh
Quarter Finals : #1 Tyrone v (AN/FH); #2 Derry v #7 Cavan; #3 Donegal v 6 Armagh; #4 Monaghan v #5 Down.
Semi Finals : (TY/AN/FH) v (MN/DW); (DY/CN) v (DL/AH)

It'd be interesting watching the matchups change as the league progressed. The progression for a #8 team is to get promoted in the league. Try to get as far up the provincial seedings as possible.

Also, in this way, the league games are important; the qualifiers are eliminated. (You've basically already had 8 good games if you lose in the first round). That frees up several weekends in the year straight away.

[Zulu]

Yep that's the way I would go too, though I'd drop the provincial element too. I'd also limit players to one code and one grade, scrap the provincial championships at minor and U21 and play regional leagues - 4 groups of 8 thus guaranteeing all minor and U21 teams 7 games. These could (potentially) be played at the same time as your senior leagues and with both hurling and football going on at the same time you could have all but a handful of minor, U21 and senior teams (both codes) out of the championships by the end of June. But still have big inter county senior games for July, August and September.

[AZOffaly]

Yep that's the way I would go too, though I'd drop the provincial element too. I'd also limit players to one code and one grade, scrap the provincial championships at minor and U21 and play regional leagues - 4 groups of 8 thus guaranteeing all minor and U21 teams 7 games. These could (potentially) be played at the same time as your senior leagues and with both hurling and football going on at the same time you could have all but a handful of minor, U21 and senior teams (both codes) out of the championships by the end of June. But still have big inter county senior games for July, August and September.

I think we've done the provincial thing to death I like them because they offer a realistic, tangible, target for mid/lower counties which stirs the soul far more than 'we reached our target of division 2 and the last 8 of the tournament' ever will.

[Zulu]

I disagree but as you said the issue has been debated enough......for now!

[Lone Shark]

For me the "quick win" that still allows counties to play at least two games in the summer is to put whatever backdoor is in place within the province. That way you don't have big long delays, more counties are knocked out early, teams still have a realistic target to shoot for, and the provincial finals get their integrity back. The Provincial councils are still happy, teams still aren't training all year for one championship game, and if it's good enough for almost all the club championships, why not the county system?

Last year Offaly lost to Kildare in Leinster and once they drew Tyrone, they knew the year was dead and tuned out. If a Leinster title was still on the table, they would have kept trying, admittedly with almost certainly the same end result.

In Ulster you could play two groups of 4/5, top two reach the semi finals, with home advantage for the group winner.

Play Munster as two groups of three, followed by semi finals, or even one group of six if they wanted to start early enough.

Move London from Connacht to Leinster - then play Connacht as one round robin group of five, winners straight into the Connacht final and 2nd plays 3rd (home advantage for 2nd) in the semi.

Leinster would be a bit trickier, either 4 groups of three with the group winners getting home advantage in the quarters, or else play a backdoor system akin to that in place in the Leinster minor, or three groups of four, where the two best group winners go straight into a semi and the weakest winner and three runners up play quarters.

The key thing would be that you could play games on successive weeks, and if you start in May, most counties would be knocked out by the first week in July, so clubs could kick on from there. The key would be to eliminate dead rubbers where possible, but it could be done certainly. 

The only negative I see is that you don't get the novel pairings that the qualifiers throws up, but in 90% of cases they mean nothing anyway. Much better to have extra provincial derbies that tend to mean something to the counties - no matter how poor the teams might be going, Ros vs Leitrim, Longford vs Westmeath, Cavan vs Monaghan, Limerick vs Clare, these games will always bring crowds.

[armaghniac]

The only negative I see is that you don't get the novel pairings that the qualifiers throws up, but in 90% of cases they mean nothing anyway. Much better to have extra provincial derbies that tend to mean something to the counties - no matter how poor the teams might be going, Ros vs Leitrim, Longford vs Westmeath, Cavan vs Monaghan, Limerick vs Clare, these games will always bring crowds.

Equally Westmeath v Roscommon, Monaghan v Louth, Fermanagh v Leitrim could be attractive ties. 

[tbrick18]

Out of interest, where did the name "Railway Cup" come from?

People talking about re-vamping it, what about a North v South winner takes all game.
I'll bet that would generate a bit of interest!

[fearbrags]

The first Railway Cup competitions (the name is due to the donation of the trophy by Irish Rail) were held in 1927