The Disappeared - RTE1 now 21.35 & BBC1 22.35

[deiseach]

Nothing new at all only the families telling their harrowing story,which is heart breaking.

[AQMP]

@ orangeman...

I don't think I'm saying there is/was a hierarchy of deeds.  All I can say, from my own point of view, is that North Belfast in the early to mid 1970s, looking back on it now, is a much different place to what it was then (if you see what I mean).

I understand that and agree with that.


I don't understand what is meant by there was much worse things happened in the troubles.

Sorry orangeman, I quoted the wrong post in my original post.  It should have been another post of O'Neill's.

[AQMP]

Disappearing was, of course, wrong. Just as wrong as killing these people in the first place.

Can anyone here justify to me why the individuals highlighted last night were executed by the kangaroo courts of the IRA?

Or to paraphrase the Louth TD "whoever killed them, I dunno"

SS, do you mean why did the IRA kill them??  I don't think you'll find anyone who'll justify it...not in 2013 anyway.

[AQMP]

Truth & reconciliation is always difficult, unless there is a clear winner, e.g. WW2.

The GFA made a decent effort at dealing with the fallout from the conflict but more needs to be done. The first thing that needs to happen is that the politics has to be taken out of it. A process needs to be agreed and bought into by all sides. Such a process would deal with the disappeared and all of the outstanding issues, in confidence. Get a George Mitchell type to chair such a process with a brief of getting answers, maintaining strict confidentially (with the exception of passing info to families), while avoiding either a witch hunt or stoking political divides. That wouldn't be easy but it has been done with decommissioning.

At the end, if there ever is an end, nothing would be published until all was agreed.

Good post muppet.

[LeoMc]

Is there a cheap political point to be scored on this subject? I wouldn't have thought so it was horrible.

I wouldn't have thought so either, but it's exactly what Ross appeared to be doing. Likewise, after expressing sympathy for the families and condemning the disappearing of remains on another thread on this topic, the usual suspects instantly lined up to take cheap shots at me and accuse me of being insincere, of "exonerating" the IRA, of "being proud" of what happened to Columba McVeigh and other such utter lies.

The IRA and its supporters will say "it was war and this is the kind of thing that happens in a war" but I would disagree. The IRA were supposedly an army defending the Nationalist population. OK they found out lads were touts but why the need to kill a 17 year old? Surely there were other means open to them in terms of discipline rather than disappearing a body. In Jean McConville's case it appears there was no reason for disappearing her other than she was a protestant who helped an army man that was injured!!

I have many times defended the IRA campaign, and always will defend their campaign, but to say that IRA supporters will say "this kind of thing happens in a war" is not true. It should NOT happen in any war, anywhere. It is grossly inhumane and twisted and I've never once heard anybody defending it as being just "the kind of thing that happens".

Have to agree with that,I have supported the IRA since its formation in 1969 and although at times disagreed with certain actions continued to support them but could never excuse disappearing people and have never heard anyone agreeing with these actions.

and to openly disapprove of them could get you added to the list.

[lawnseed]

not good at all. the fact that the programme was shown on both state broadcasters on the same night is interesting..

hundreds of show like this could be made from 'would be republicans' offing their neighbours in the twenties to get their land to politicians not long dead murdering republican prisoners and blowing about it in pubs. that's the problem with guerrilla warfare individuals carry out atrocities under the guise of a cause when it can be over something like a row in a pub or over a women. either way Gerry is a liability to the sinn fein party more so than ever he needs to step aside as soon as possible. tomorrow would not be soon enough.. i'd say the gimp Kenny and mehole martian were cracking open the champers last night.

[AQMP]

It's on again tonight on BBC4.

[Shamrock Shore]

SS, do you mean why did the IRA kill them??  I don't think you'll find anyone who'll justify it...not in 2013 anyway.

Sorry - justify does not seem the correct word. 'Why' I think because i spose they were or were suspected of being touts although the case of Jean McConville to me was always shrouded in confusion in that she was either (i) executed cos she helped an injured soldier on the street or (ii) had control of a radio and was sending information to the security forces and had been warned a number of times to cease.

Was the IRA (or sorry Louth TD, the mystery men from mystery land) saying that all the so-called disappeared were all informers?

Were lads 'disappeared' for simply dissing a local commander or not showing 'due respect'?

[All of a Sludden]

Freddie Scappaticci  disappeared, but that's an entirely different matter.

[lawnseed]

SS, do you mean why did the IRA kill them??  I don't think you'll find anyone who'll justify it...not in 2013 anyway.

Sorry - justify does not seem the correct word. 'Why' I think because i suppose they were or were suspected of being touts although the case of Jean McConville to me was always shrouded in confusion in that she was either (i) executed cos she helped an injured soldier on the street or (ii) had control of a radio and was sending information to the security forces and had been warned a number of times to cease.

Was the IRA (or sorry Louth TD, the mystery men from mystery land) saying that all the so-called disappeared were all informers?

Were lads 'disappeared' for simply dissing a local commander or not showing 'due respect'?

revealing why they were killed might point to who killed them. as in the case of mrs mc conville because her body was accidentally found by a member of the public this allows the authority's to investigate whereas if she'd been found during a dig the case would have been closed. if you killed someone  35 years ago you wouldn't want to go to jail now any more than you did at that time. i think a lot of people were killed for reasons unrelated to any political struggle but were labled out of convenience

[AQMP]

SS, do you mean why did the IRA kill them??  I don't think you'll find anyone who'll justify it...not in 2013 anyway.

Sorry - justify does not seem the correct word. 'Why' I think because i spose they were or were suspected of being touts although the case of Jean McConville to me was always shrouded in confusion in that she was either (i) executed cos she helped an injured soldier on the street or (ii) had control of a radio and was sending information to the security forces and had been warned a number of times to cease.

Was the IRA (or sorry Louth TD, the mystery men from mystery land) saying that all the so-called disappeared were all informers?

Were lads 'disappeared' for simply dissing a local commander or not showing 'due respect'?

As far as I'm aware (and I was young at the time of the Jean McConville abduction) they were accused of being informers.  I'm not aware of anyone being murdered at that time for dissing local 'RA men (albeit that might be the case recently in South Armagh).  I might be wrong.  With Jean McConville it depends who you believe.  The main evidence against Adams comes from well known IRA man Brendan Hughes, but some of the family reject his claims as he (Hughes) also claims Jean McConville was working for the British Army.  I really don't know.

[haveaharp]

I wonder how many of the henchmen that actually did the deed and buried these people are now dead themselves and maybe the knowledge of one or two of the burial places are gone for ever.

[Newbridge Exile]

SS, do you mean why did the IRA kill them??  I don't think you'll find anyone who'll justify it...not in 2013 anyway.

Sorry - justify does not seem the correct word. 'Why' I think because i spose they were or were suspected of being touts although the case of Jean McConville to me was always shrouded in confusion in that she was either (i) executed cos she helped an injured soldier on the street or (ii) had control of a radio and was sending information to the security forces and had been warned a number of times to cease.

Was the IRA (or sorry Louth TD, the mystery men from mystery land) saying that all the so-called disappeared were all informers?

Were lads 'disappeared' for simply dissing a local commander or not showing 'due respect'?

As far as I'm aware (and I was young at the time of the Jean McConville abduction) they were accused of being informers.  I'm not aware of anyone being murdered at that time for dissing local 'RA men (albeit that might be the case recently in South Armagh).  I might be wrong.  With Jean McConville it depends who you believe.  The main evidence against Adams comes from well known IRA man Brendan Hughes, but some of the family reject his claims as he (Hughes) also claims Jean McConville was working for the British Army.  I really don't know.

I personally Thought that Billy McKee's contribution was more damming for Adams.

[Milltown Row2]

I wonder how many of the henchmen that actually did the deed and buried these people are now dead themselves and maybe the knowledge of one or two of the burial places are gone for ever.

One group took them away and interrogated them and another group carried out the deed. The likelyhood of these lads all being alive is low I'd say or their memory a lot worse over the ways.

[deiseach]

I wouldn't place much weight on the allegations from Brendan Hughes. No honour among thieves and all that.