1 Million Voices for Irish Unity

[snoopdog]

If you have a think about it.
How many people really care if there is a United Ireland in their lifetime.
Its all about how much it will cost them, and thats a trait left over from the so called celtic tiger.
no point talking about it, we wont see it in our lifetime.
Despite some areas and people the North has made massive strides in the last 20 years, maybe give it another 20 or 30 years and then check the lie of the land. Currently though the majority of nationalists in the north wouldnt vote for a united ireland.
these are the simple facts.

[armaghniac]

The only way to do it, is to create it, by joining one piece and then another, and then another, until before you know it, the country is more and more united.

Fair enough. What additional joining have SF achieved lately? If I post a letter in Forkhill to Dundalk can I put a regular 2nd class stamp on it? Can I use data on my +353 phone while in the Athletic Grounds without being gouged? There are all sorts of practical matters that would be a real boon to people, but feck all has been done to advance these.

[Feckitt]

If you have a think about it.
How many people really care if there is a United Ireland in their lifetime.
Its all about how much it will cost them, and thats a trait left over from the so called celtic tiger.
no point talking about it, we wont see it in our lifetime.
Despite some areas and people the North has made massive strides in the last 20 years, maybe give it another 20 or 30 years and then check the lie of the land. Currently though the majority of nationalists in the north wouldnt vote for a united ireland.
these are the simple facts.

That is all correct, and makes perfect sense.  If a referendum was held tomorrow, and you had the chance to join our imaginary economy to a basket case economy who don't really want you anyway, and with the added bonus of loyalist paramilitaries about to go f**king nuts over any united Ireland, then most people will definitely say, no, no thanks.

So, what can we do to make Ireland United?  We can push to unite in small stages.  That is the only way!!

[Feckitt]

The only way to do it, is to create it, by joining one piece and then another, and then another, until before you know it, the country is more and more united.

Fair enough. What additional joining have SF achieved lately? If I post a letter in Forkhill to Dundalk can I put a regular 2nd class stamp on it? Can I use data on my +353 phone while in the Athletic Grounds without being gouged? There are all sorts of practical matters that would be a real boon to people, but feck all has been done to advance these.

Yes, These are some of the more obvious things that need to be done?  Urgently!!, but don't shout at me, I'm not Sinn Fein.

[rodney trotter]

There was a poll a few months back, where a high percentage of Catholics in the North wanted to remain as part of the UK,(over 50%) how would that suddenly change?

[Feckitt]

There was a poll a few months back, where a high percentage of Catholics in the North wanted to remain as part of the UK,(over 50%) how would that suddenly change?

As, i've just said, the question was would you wish to join the republic of Ireland, tomorrow  The only sane answer is No, but that doesn't mean that people don't want a United Ireland.

[seafoid]

I'd like to see how the United Ireland would be funded.
Fair play to the Brits for sponsoring NI, btw.

They've had to sponsor the 26 fairly heftily of late too, lest ye forget.

When is the last time the wee 6 ran a surplus ?

A long time. It's a failed political entity. It shouldn't exist as it's own entity. My only point in the previous post was that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...no point in making jibes about the six counties being funded by the brits when they are having to help bail out the other 26 too.

A united Ireland would make sense if

a it could fund itself like a normal country
b the Loyalists were brought into the tent

It is one country anyway

But without a plan to make it happen especially on the financial side it'll just get shot down by vested interests
in Dublin  starting with Independent newspapers. 

[Maguire01]

According to this poll, SF is now by some considerable distance, the most popular party across Ireland, North and South.

The above, together with the thread title "1 million voices for Irish Unity"...

The irony is that whilst SF is riding higher than it ever has, support for unification is at its lowest ever. Now, not only do unionists have to be convinced, but 'nationalists' too, including a significant number of SF voters. And let's not forget, that SF's success in the south isn't on the back of a 'United Ireland' ticket - in fact they've largely ignored that in favour of day to day southern politics, acknowledging that that was the only way to make any serious inroads.

The irony is that SF, in making NI 'work' (i.e. fairly ineffective in terms of delivering day to day benefits, but relatively stable), many of the arguments for a United Ireland no longer exists, or are at least weakened. Yes, there will always be the emotional/romantic argument, but given cross-border co-operation on health etc. (with a DUP Minister, no less) many of the practical arguments will become less and less relevant over time.

[Franko]

That link is about a loan at 5.9% - a couple of points above average UK bond yield.

So, back to the question - when "of late" did the UK "sponsor" this country?

Ah right, just a loan. Not that any loans were needed sure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9813358/British-taxpayers-funded-Irelands-14bn-bail-out.html
"Almost one pound in every four injected into the two state-backed banks by the Government has gone directly into the Irish economy, the two lenders' subsidiary accounts show.
Between 2009 and 2011, RBS made "capital contributions" totalling €9.13bn (£7.6bn) to its Dublin-headquartered subsidiary Ulster Bank Ireland. Over the same period, Lloyds transferred £6.41bn to its Irish operation, Bank of Scotland (Ireland), before dissolving the business.
The total – £14bn – amounts to more than a fifth of the £65bn UK taxpayers injected into RBS and Lloyds in 2008 and 2009, and is expected to rise further. Analysts estimate that RBS transferred another £2bn last year.
RBS and Lloyds used the funds to write off billions of pounds of debt loaned to Irish commercial property developers and households in the "Celtic Tiger" boom years.
After the bubble burst, Ireland's banks brought the country to its knees and forced the government into a €67.5bn (£56.5bn) international rescue, including £7bn from the UK Government. Since the financial crisis, Dublin has injected €80bn into its banks and nationalised or part-nationalised six of them. Together with the bank bail-outs, the UK taxpayer has propped up the Irish economy with at least £20bn."

Touché

[Farrandeelin]

If you have a think about it.
How many people really care if there is a United Ireland in their lifetime.
Its all about how much it will cost them, and thats a trait left over from the so called celtic tiger.
no point talking about it, we wont see it in our lifetime.
Despite some areas and people the North has made massive strides in the last 20 years, maybe give it another 20 or 30 years and then check the lie of the land. Currently though the majority of nationalists in the north wouldnt vote for a united ireland.
these are the simple facts.

I do.

[muppet]

That link is about a loan at 5.9% - a couple of points above average UK bond yield.

So, back to the question - when "of late" did the UK "sponsor" this country?

Ah right, just a loan. Not that any loans were needed sure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9813358/British-taxpayers-funded-Irelands-14bn-bail-out.html
"Almost one pound in every four injected into the two state-backed banks by the Government has gone directly into the Irish economy, the two lenders' subsidiary accounts show.
Between 2009 and 2011, RBS made "capital contributions" totalling €9.13bn (£7.6bn) to its Dublin-headquartered subsidiary Ulster Bank Ireland. Over the same period, Lloyds transferred £6.41bn to its Irish operation, Bank of Scotland (Ireland), before dissolving the business.
The total – £14bn – amounts to more than a fifth of the £65bn UK taxpayers injected into RBS and Lloyds in 2008 and 2009, and is expected to rise further. Analysts estimate that RBS transferred another £2bn last year.
RBS and Lloyds used the funds to write off billions of pounds of debt loaned to Irish commercial property developers and households in the "Celtic Tiger" boom years.
After the bubble burst, Ireland's banks brought the country to its knees and forced the government into a €67.5bn (£56.5bn) international rescue, including £7bn from the UK Government. Since the financial crisis, Dublin has injected €80bn into its banks and nationalised or part-nationalised six of them. Together with the bank bail-outs, the UK taxpayer has propped up the Irish economy with at least £20bn."

Touché

Gentlemen you would need to dig a bit deeper. The UK didn't loan us money to bail us out. They did it to avoid us bringing their even bigger mess down. And they owe us even more than we owe them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

[Gold]

I'd like to see how the United Ireland would be funded.
Fair play to the Brits for sponsoring NI, btw.

What exactly do the Brits gain from ruling/paying for NI??

[AQMP]

If you have a think about it.
How many people really care if there is a United Ireland in their lifetime.
Its all about how much it will cost them, and thats a trait left over from the so called celtic tiger.
no point talking about it, we wont see it in our lifetime.
Despite some areas and people the North has made massive strides in the last 20 years, maybe give it another 20 or 30 years and then check the lie of the land. Currently though the majority of nationalists in the north wouldnt vote for a united ireland.
these are the simple facts.

I do.

Me too.  I'm not saying it's going to happen any time soon, mind you.

[lawnseed]

Just don't expect the likes of the self-proclaimed "Republican Party" or the self-proclaimed "United Ireland Party" to actually do anything to advance it though.

I don't expect SF to do anything to advance it either, although they may waffle a bit about it.

Well there's never such thing as 'doing enough' for it, but what else specifically would you like to see SF do in the campaign for Irish unity?

You do a lot of speaking up for Sinn Féin for a buck who says he's not a member. Is this the "Gerry Adams syndrome" - deny everything?
It would help if SF provided some vision of how they saw an All Ireland entity operating e.g Federal, Single State, Executive or figurehead President,  arrangements for those who consider themselves Brits in the 6 Cos etc etc.

I think they're the best of the bunch by quite some distance, but I disagree with them on some things and as such I am not a member. I really am sorry if that is a disappointment to you. SF have laid out how they would like a United Ireland to operate and while I'd agree that they need to elaborate on this, it is abundantly clear to me that their main motive in recent times is to engage others in the discussion of how it should operate, rather than just arguing the case for their own version. The fact that they organised Uniting Ireland conferences in every corner of Ireland and in England and the USA in the past year or two, and invited representatives from all sections, is testament to that. They have also been repeatedly stressing that the aim of provoking such discussions is to ensure unionist inclusion and engagement. Aside from that, they tend to keep it on the agenda as much as possible.

I'd take that approach any day over Micheal "down here in the Republic" Martin, and Enda "not interested in a United Ireland yet" Kenny and their respective parties of "republicans".

+1
great post

[Rossfan]

Gentlemen you would need to dig a bit deeper. The UK didn't loan us money to bail us out. They did it to avoid us bringing their even bigger mess down. And they owe us even more than we owe them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

800 years at say €1Bn a year for a start.
It would enable us to keep the Lawnseeds and the like in the luxury they seem to be accustomed to when they are United with the rest of us. I presume Seed will high tail it to GB when that happens as he has such a partitionist contempt for us lot that he wouldn't want to be in the same jurisdiction.
As for the "facility" they offered us - a loan that had to be paid back at a relatively high interest rate was a rather dubious "sponsorship".