What is a handy/soft free?

[take_yer_points]

In some cases the player is being held back and the referee has 2 things he can do, blow for a free for the pulling of the player on the ball or give the player an extra few steps, using the advantage rule. Frustrates players/management but in the rules.

Am I reading this correctly? Under normal rules of play, 4 steps is the maximum number permitted before a solo/bounce. However, the rule doesn't apply if the referee allows play to continue under the advantage rule and the player can be allowed to continue and take extra steps. I never knew that

[Asal Mor]

How many steps are you allowed in football anyway? Looks a lot like Rugby League at times...

About 10 if you don't show hesitation. If you do hesitate, about 3, it's more about perception than anything else. The application of this rule has always annoyed me.

Dead right. Drives me cracked too. You'll sometimes see a player penalised after throwing a few dummies and turning a few times but without having taken too many steps or having fouled the ball, and the commentator(Canning) will say, "Yes, he held on to the ball too long". There's no such rule as far as I know.

[brokencrossbar1]

How many steps are you allowed in football anyway? Looks a lot like Rugby League at times...

About 10 if you don't show hesitation. If you do hesitate, about 3, it's more about perception than anything else. The application of this rule has always annoyed me.

Dead right. Drives me cracked too. You'll sometimes see a player penalised after throwing a few dummies and turning a few times but without having taken too many steps or having fouled the ball, and the commentator(Canning) will say, "Yes, he held on to the ball too long". There's no such rule as far as I know.

There actually is,

When a player is in possession of the ball, it
may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive
steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer
than the time needed to take four steps;

[Hardy]

How many steps are you allowed in football anyway? Looks a lot like Rugby League at times...

About 10 if you don't show hesitation. If you do hesitate, about 3, it's more about perception than anything else. The application of this rule has always annoyed me.

Dead right. Drives me cracked too. You'll sometimes see a player penalised after throwing a few dummies and turning a few times but without having taken too many steps or having fouled the ball, and the commentator(Canning) will say, "Yes, he held on to the ball too long". There's no such rule as far as I know.

+1. This is often influenced by spectators hahooing at the ref when something unusual like this occurs that messes with their processing powers and causes them to confuse skill with fouling the ball.

[Hardy]

How many steps are you allowed in football anyway? Looks a lot like Rugby League at times...

About 10 if you don't show hesitation. If you do hesitate, about 3, it's more about perception than anything else. The application of this rule has always annoyed me.

Dead right. Drives me cracked too. You'll sometimes see a player penalised after throwing a few dummies and turning a few times but without having taken too many steps or having fouled the ball, and the commentator(Canning) will say, "Yes, he held on to the ball too long". There's no such rule as far as I know.

There actually is,

When a player is in possession of the ball, it
may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive
steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer
than the time needed to take four steps;

I took Asal to mean frees given when the ball hasn't actually been fouled, by taking either too many steps or too many seconds.

Which is another stupid wording of a rule. What is the time needed to take four steps? Is it four sprinting steps (about .8 of a second) or four strolling steps (depends on how slowly you're strolling)?

[Bord na Mona man]

How many steps are you allowed in football anyway? Looks a lot like Rugby League at times...

About 10 if you don't show hesitation. If you do hesitate, about 3, it's more about perception than anything else. The application of this rule has always annoyed me.

Dead right. Drives me cracked too. You'll sometimes see a player penalised after throwing a few dummies and turning a few times but without having taken too many steps or having fouled the ball, and the commentator(Canning) will say, "Yes, he held on to the ball too long". There's no such rule as far as I know.

+1. This is often influenced by spectators hahooing at the ref when something unusual like this occurs that messes with their processing powers and causes them to confuse skill with fouling the ball.

Drives me nuts as well. I term this the "Arra don't be trickacting" offence, where the player changes his mind and gets blown for it. It doesn't matter if this offence is tightly sandwiched between hops or solos, the fact that people were anticipating a certain outcome, such as a pass, and the player gives them something different, like keeping it, is the offence.

I reckon about 10% of a hurling or a football match crowd turn up wanting to see everything first timed and the ball advanced upfield as quick as possible and by any means necessary. These are the ones who hoot their approval at volleys, pulls, doubles, etc. regardless of whether any net benefit accrues.
By the same token, their blood pressure rises at anything delaying such as indirect ball movement occurs. These are the major callers of these "trickacting" fouls.

[brokencrossbar1]

The funny thing is hardy that a lot of people don't even realise the rule about the 'time'.  3-5 seconds is the guideline depending on the ref and the circumstances, and that came from a ref!!!  These types of rules are obeyed in the breach rather than strictly applied and is not one of the greatest 'gear grinders' unless it results in a goal against my team them I'm fit to burst someone!

[deiseach]

The rule re 'the time needed to take four steps' is vague, but what's the alternative? If you don't have it, then what's to stop a player standing still with the ball firmly clasped into his bosom? He won't be using any 'steps' and it would be practically impossible to dispossess him without fouling him.

[Milltown Row2]

In some cases the player is being held back and the referee has 2 things he can do, blow for a free for the pulling of the player on the ball or give the player an extra few steps, using the advantage rule. Frustrates players/management but in the rules.

Am I reading this correctly? Under normal rules of play, 4 steps is the maximum number permitted before a solo/bounce. However, the rule doesn't apply if the referee allows play to continue under the advantage rule and the player can be allowed to continue and take extra steps. I never knew that

When i say he's allowed a few extra steps the referee usually gives the player on the ball an extra few steps if the player is being held, it's either that or blow a for a free for holding. Which would you prefer? play stopped for each pull or an advantage to keep the game flowing? Again hard to keep everyone happy

[brokencrossbar1]

The rule re 'the time needed to take four steps' is vague, but what's the alternative? If you don't have it, then what's to stop a player standing still with the ball firmly clasped into his bosom? He won't be using any 'steps' and it would be practically impossible to dispossess him without fouling him.

I think 5 seconds would be a reasonable time frame to implement. 

[Hardy]

The rule re 'the time needed to take four steps' is vague, but what's the alternative? If you don't have it, then what's to stop a player standing still with the ball firmly clasped into his bosom? He won't be using any 'steps' and it would be practically impossible to dispossess him without fouling him.

How about four steps or three seconds? I think more than three seconds is too long, but that's just a opinion.

[Milltown Row2]

The funny thing is hardy that a lot of people don't even realise the rule about the 'time'.  3-5 seconds is the guideline depending on the ref and the circumstances, and that came from a ref!!!  These types of rules are obeyed in the breach rather than strictly applied and is not one of the greatest 'gear grinders' unless it results in a goal against my team them I'm fit to burst someone!

Referees (as far as I'm aware) will count 1 through to 4, not quickly like a opposing player/supporter will count but like a normal second takes . If the player goes into 5 then he should blow unless the player hops/bounces the ball then we start again, not rocket science, but it's down to the referee with the whistle.

The problem is consistency, the referee who blows for the first overcarrying needs to make sure he times every other call to the first overcarrying call. I will shout if the player is being held to play on and allow more steps so the players know I'll allow more steps (of course this can go on from one end line to another, as you'll blow for a foul). Never easy and you can't keep everyone happy, just informed on what you are doing. I do feel that the rules could be more straight forward but you'd be surprised how well you'd do on an exam of the rules

[AMayoFan]

The problem is consistency, the referee who blows for the first overcarrying needs to make sure he times every other call to the first overcarrying call......

First off, at the top level, I really believe all refs are out to be unbias and completely fair.  After all isn't in there interest!  But consistency is exactly the crux of the problem.   The rules appear to magically change between refs and during a game.  Players are left adapting, second guessing what will be pulled for a foul and what will not.  Supporters are frustrated when they see opposite teams not been pulled for a foul when earlier in the game there team has!  Refs than starts to balance decisions up so to be somewhat fair.  My advice, ref the match at the start as you do during and at the end. 

[Milltown Row2]

The problem is consistency, the referee who blows for the first overcarrying needs to make sure he times every other call to the first overcarrying call......

First off, at the top level, I really believe all refs are out to be unbias and completely fair.  After all isn't in there interest!  But consistency is exactly the crux of the problem.   The rules appear to magically change between refs and during a game.  Players are left adapting, second guessing what will be pulled for a foul and what will not.  Supporters are frustrated when they see opposite teams not been pulled for a foul when earlier in the game there team has!  Refs than starts to balance decisions up so to be somewhat fair.  My advice, ref the match at the start as you do during and at the end.

At club level I played for many years and knew how individual referees ref'd the game, certain referees blew for everything, some referees made you really work for a free and tried to let the game go and so on we all know how a referee will do it in your own county. As you have said at the top level it's hard but these referees have done a lot of games and we should know how they referee by now.

Part of a managers speech before a match will be about the referee and how he likes to do it, some referees even talk to the players before a match. I even got a National referee to speak to my players about the referee who was in charge of a game we were involved in during an All Ireland run.

Its daft that we should even be thinking about the referee, he should just be there to call the game and the players should play within the rules

[take_yer_points]

In some cases the player is being held back and the referee has 2 things he can do, blow for a free for the pulling of the player on the ball or give the player an extra few steps, using the advantage rule. Frustrates players/management but in the rules.

Am I reading this correctly? Under normal rules of play, 4 steps is the maximum number permitted before a solo/bounce. However, the rule doesn't apply if the referee allows play to continue under the advantage rule and the player can be allowed to continue and take extra steps. I never knew that

When i say he's allowed a few extra steps the referee usually gives the player on the ball an extra few steps if the player is being held, it's either that or blow a for a free for holding. Which would you prefer? play stopped for each pull or an advantage to keep the game flowing? Again hard to keep everyone happy

Yes ok, I have you now.

I'd prefer your idea of permitting the extra steps and I noticed in a later post there you mentioned that you make the player in posession aware that it is happening. It is definitely the common sense approach and should result in a more free flowing game.

However, I have 2 problems with it that are quite closely linked:

1) It's not in the rule book (I don't think - I stand to be corrected);
2) It's not consistently applied.

Obviously it's not consistently applied because it's not in the rule book. Perhaps it should be included as part of the advantage rule - when a ref raises his arm(s) to indicate advantage is being played, then the step count restarts at zero. However currently as that's not in the rule book I don't think it's an ideal way to approach it - it only takes a player a few seconds to overcarry so if the fouled player overcarries I think the foul should be given - 2 wrongs don't make a right and all that. I think the rules should be there to allow for a free flowing game, the ref should just faciliate that rather than interpret the rules in his own way - to me, that's what leads to the inconsistency issue.