2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[Sidney]

Fair play Sidney...some analysis there! Did you have a look at rock,s pass/throw to MDM prior to Flynn point?

Good spot there, that's one I missed and definitely a debatable one. Rock appears to toss the ball up slightly with his right hand and then strike it with his open right hand to McAuley, exactly like how you'd handpass a sliotar in hurling. I don't think it was a throw. That's something you see very rarely and my gut reaction was it was illegal, but Rule 1.4 would seem to suggest otherwise, although I'm open to correction on this.

If you look at matches from the 60s you'd see players handpass the ball in a different style to today - they often tossed it quite high into the air and then belted it with the fist.

I can't find anything that says teeing or tossing the ball up with the same hand you pass with is illegal. There is in my opinion a definite underhand striking action. So my feeling is that it was a legal pass.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/coaching_and_games/rules/Playing_Rules_of_Football_100110233329.pdf

1.4 When a player is in possession of the ball, it
may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive
steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer
than the time needed to take four steps;
(b) played from the foot to the hand(s) -toetapped;
(c) bounced once, and once after each toetap;
(d) changed from one hand to the other once,
with the original holding hand maintaining
contact until the change is completed;
(e) struck with the open hand(s) or fist,
provided there is a definite striking action;
(f) tossed for a kick, a toe-tap or a pass with
the hand(s).
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand.

[macdanger2]

Fair play Sidney...some analysis there! Did you have a look at rock,s pass/throw to MDM prior to Flynn point?

Good spot there, that's one I missed and definitely a debatable one. Rock appears to toss the ball up slightly with his right hand and then strike it with his open right hand to McAuley, exactly like how you'd handpass a sliotar in hurling. I don't think it was a throw. That's something you see very rarely and my gut reaction was it was illegal, but Rule 1.4 would seem to suggest otherwise, although I'm open to correction on this.

If you look at matches from the 60s you'd see players handpass the ball in a different style to today - they often tossed it quite high into the air and then belted it with the fist.

I can't find anything that says teeing or tossing the ball up with the same hand you pass with is illegal. There is in my opinion a definite underhand striking action. So my feeling is that it was a legal pass.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/coaching_and_games/rules/Playing_Rules_of_Football_100110233329.pdf

1.4 When a player is in possession of the ball, it
may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive
steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer
than the time needed to take four steps;
(b) played from the foot to the hand(s) -toetapped;
(c) bounced once, and once after each toetap;
(d) changed from one hand to the other once,
with the original holding hand maintaining
contact until the change is completed;
(e) struck with the open hand(s) or fist,
provided there is a definite striking action;
(f) tossed for a kick, a toe-tap or a pass with
the hand(s).
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand.

I remember when we were trained at underage that we were told this was illegal - it was in relation to what you could do when someone was dragging back your free hand. Not sure if what we were told was correct or not though.

[blast05]

I always though it was a foul too.
When it happened during the game i stood up and roared like a bull "thats a foul handpass" ....  but damn ref never haerd me 

[The Hill is Blue]

This thread could take us through to the 2014 All Ireland Final. 

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

[highorlow]

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose. 

[The Hill is Blue]

Good man - well responded 

[Michael Schmeichal]

]

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose.

Thats a great response. Fair play to you. I hope you and Mayo have better days soon.

[Zulu]

Fair play Sidney...some analysis there! Did you have a look at rock,s pass/throw to MDM prior to Flynn point?

Good spot there, that's one I missed and definitely a debatable one. Rock appears to toss the ball up slightly with his right hand and then strike it with his open right hand to McAuley, exactly like how you'd handpass a sliotar in hurling. I don't think it was a throw. That's something you see very rarely and my gut reaction was it was illegal, but Rule 1.4 would seem to suggest otherwise, although I'm open to correction on this.

If you look at matches from the 60s you'd see players handpass the ball in a different style to today - they often tossed it quite high into the air and then belted it with the fist.

I can't find anything that says teeing or tossing the ball up with the same hand you pass with is illegal. There is in my opinion a definite underhand striking action. So my feeling is that it was a legal pass.

http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/coaching_and_games/rules/Playing_Rules_of_Football_100110233329.pdf

1.4 When a player is in possession of the ball, it
may be:-
(a) carried for a maximum of four consecutive
steps or held in the hand(s) for no longer
than the time needed to take four steps;
(b) played from the foot to the hand(s) -toetapped;
(c) bounced once, and once after each toetap;
(d) changed from one hand to the other once,
with the original holding hand maintaining
contact until the change is completed;
(e) struck with the open hand(s) or fist,
provided there is a definite striking action;
(f) tossed for a kick, a toe-tap or a pass with
the hand(s).
The ball may be knocked from an opponent's
hand(s) by flicking it with the open hand.

I remember when we were trained at underage that we were told this was illegal - it was in relation to what you could do when someone was dragging back your free hand. Not sure if what we were told was correct or not though.

It's not a foul to throw the ball up and strike it with the hand.

[rrhf]

I see Mc Eneany is happy with the referee, on the basis he had no impact on the result, surely now its time to ban Mc Eneany.   Straight red. 

[Sidney]

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose.

It might not feel like it to a Mayo person but there has to be something, as you say, almost spiritual about following a team like that. It's something bigger than just following a team, and as a Dublin supporter, I almost envy Mayo supporters.

We have all the advantages. Population, money, we play all our championship matches  and now, it seems, most of our league matches too, at home. It's a pleasure to watch this Dublin team, but given those advantages and now that we've won two All-Irelands and will probably come back for a good few more, I find myself becoming much less partisan. The thrill of winning has gone. There is no desperation to win. We should be winning.

When Dublin won in 2011, it was great. We were underdogs, we hadn't won it for 16 years, we hadn't been in a final for 16 years, and they way we won it coming from behind and winning with almost the last kick was thrilling. Every one of those 16 years was worth it for that moment.

Now it just isn't the same, and it probably never again will be. Dublin have had dark days, but they were nothing compared to what it must be like for a county that hasn't won for 62 years and has lost seven finals.  We may have been underdogs in 2011, but we will never be real underdogs. The feelings of disappointment must be magnified by ten when Mayo lose compared to what Dublin fans feel, the feeling of winning will be magnified by a similar amount should they win it.

I find myself being reminded of Kilkenny people, who used to go on about the disappointment they felt in 1999 as if it was the most devastating thing that had happened to any county in history. Sorry lads, but you haven't a clue. You will never know disappointment or joy like Mayo.

I read in some paper that the other day that the Boston Red Sox failing to win a World Series for 86 years almost defined who Bostonians were as a people. There's a certain similarity alright, but they were professional players, most of whom weren't even from Boston. They might have been playing for the Yankees the next year.  The Mayo team is the Mayo people, and everybody in Mayo is a part of your team in some small way.

Mayo's continuing quest to win Sam is a heartbreaking yet beautiful  odyessy. We in Dublin will never know anything like it. In a strange way it's great for football in Mayo. Every year without Sam reinforces that hunger and reinforces the obsession. Mayo are always there or thereabouts at underage level, and few counties have reached more senior finals over the last 25 years. As long as the odyessy keeps going football in Mayo will never decline, it will only get stronger - it's as true a football county as there is. When Mayo finally win the All-Ireland, yes, you will regret that certain players didn't win All-Ireland medals, but every Mayo person will look back at every year and every defeat and realise that it was worth the journey.  Until then, you have no choice but to keep enduring,  keep working and keep hoping.

[Drummerboy]

I see Mc Eneany is happy with the referee, on the basis he had no impact on the result, surely now its time to ban Mc Eneany.   Straight red.

Is he saying that if Mayo had won, McQuillan would have had an impact on the result?

[north aontroim gael]

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose.

It might not feel like it to a Mayo person but there has to be something, as you say, almost spiritual about following a team like that. It's something bigger than just following a team, and as a Dublin supporter, I almost envy Mayo supporters.

We have all the advantages. Population, money, we play all our championship matches  and now, it seems, most of our league matches too, at home. It's a pleasure to watch this Dublin team, but given those advantages and now that we've won two All-Irelands and will probably come back for a good few more, I find myself becoming much less partisan. The thrill of winning has gone. There is no desperation to win. We should be winning.

When Dublin won in 2011, it was great. We were underdogs, we hadn't won it for 16 years, we hadn't been in a final for 16 years, and they way we won it coming from behind and winning with almost the last kick was thrilling. Every one of those 16 years was worth it for that moment.

Now it just isn't the same, and it probably never again will be. Dublin have had dark days, but they were nothing compared to what it must be like for a county that hasn't won for 62 years and has lost seven finals.  We may have been underdogs in 2011, but we will never be real underdogs. The feelings of disappointment must be magnified by ten when Mayo lose compared to what Dublin fans feel, the feeling of winning will be magnified by a similar amount should they win it.

I find myself being reminded of Kilkenny people, who used to go on about the disappointment they felt in 1999 as if it was the most devastating thing that had happened to any county in history. Sorry lads, but you haven't a clue. You will never know disappointment or joy like Mayo.

I read in some paper that the other day that the Boston Red Sox failing to win a World Series for 86 years almost defined who Bostonians were as a people. There's a certain similarity alright, but they were professional players, most of whom weren't even from Boston. They might have been playing for the Yankees the next year.  The Mayo team is the Mayo people, and everybody in Mayo is a part of your team in some small way.

Mayo's continuing quest to win Sam is a heartbreaking yet beautiful  odyessy. We in Dublin will never know anything like it. In a strange way it's great for football in Mayo. Every year without Sam reinforces that hunger and reinforces the obsession. Mayo are always there or thereabouts at underage level, and few counties have reached more senior finals over the last 25 years. As long as the odyessy keeps going football in Mayo will never decline, it will only get stronger - it's as true a football county as there is. When Mayo finally win the All-Ireland, yes, you will regret that certain players didn't win All-Ireland medals, but every Mayo person will look back at every year and every defeat and realise that it was worth the journey.  Until then, you have no choice but to keep enduring,  keep working and keep hoping.

Great post.

Those who have been spolied with success seldom appreciate it as much as those who have never tasted it / waited a long time for it.

My own club (Loughgiel Shamrocks) lost six county finals in a row from 2003-2008.  This Sunday they are aiming to win their 4th County title on the trot and they also won the All Ireland Club title in 2012.  The defeats suffered in those County finals shaped our current team and brought them together.  It will be a great story if Mayo can come back next year and lift Sam.  Their fans will enjoy it all the more if they do.

[Jinxy]

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose.

Should that not say 'county'?

[Cold tea]

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose.

It might not feel like it to a Mayo person but there has to be something, as you say, almost spiritual about following a team like that. It's something bigger than just following a team, and as a Dublin supporter, I almost envy Mayo supporters.

We have all the advantages. Population, money, we play all our championship matches  and now, it seems, most of our league matches too, at home. It's a pleasure to watch this Dublin team, but given those advantages and now that we've won two All-Irelands and will probably come back for a good few more, I find myself becoming much less partisan. The thrill of winning has gone. There is no desperation to win. We should be winning.

When Dublin won in 2011, it was great. We were underdogs, we hadn't won it for 16 years, we hadn't been in a final for 16 years, and they way we won it coming from behind and winning with almost the last kick was thrilling. Every one of those 16 years was worth it for that moment.

Now it just isn't the same, and it probably never again will be. Dublin have had dark days, but they were nothing compared to what it must be like for a county that hasn't won for 62 years and has lost seven finals.  We may have been underdogs in 2011, but we will never be real underdogs. The feelings of disappointment must be magnified by ten when Mayo lose compared to what Dublin fans feel, the feeling of winning will be magnified by a similar amount should they win it.

I find myself being reminded of Kilkenny people, who used to go on about the disappointment they felt in 1999 as if it was the most devastating thing that had happened to any county in history. Sorry lads, but you haven't a clue. You will never know disappointment or joy like Mayo.

I read in some paper that the other day that the Boston Red Sox failing to win a World Series for 86 years almost defined who Bostonians were as a people. There's a certain similarity alright, but they were professional players, most of whom weren't even from Boston. They might have been playing for the Yankees the next year.  The Mayo team is the Mayo people, and everybody in Mayo is a part of your team in some small way.

Mayo's continuing quest to win Sam is a heartbreaking yet beautiful  odyessy. We in Dublin will never know anything like it. In a strange way it's great for football in Mayo. Every year without Sam reinforces that hunger and reinforces the obsession. Mayo are always there or thereabouts at underage level, and few counties have reached more senior finals over the last 25 years. As long as the odyessy keeps going football in Mayo will never decline, it will only get stronger - it's as true a football county as there is. When Mayo finally win the All-Ireland, yes, you will regret that certain players didn't win All-Ireland medals, but every Mayo person will look back at every year and every defeat and realise that it was worth the journey.  Until then, you have no choice but to keep enduring,  keep working and keep hoping.

Great post.

Those who have been spolied with success seldom appreciate it as much as those who have never tasted it / waited a long time for it.

My own club (Loughgiel Shamrocks) lost six county finals in a row from 2003-2008.  This Sunday they are aiming to win their 4th County title on the trot and they also won the All Ireland Club title in 2012.  The defeats suffered in those County finals shaped our current team and brought them together.  It will be a great story if Mayo can come back next year and lift Sam.  Their fans will enjoy it all the more if they do.

Try telling Crossmaglen that.

[Syferus]

I know it may be therapeutic for Mayo folk (and others) to grieve in public but I think you'd all be better off now just getting on with life.

THIB living in this hellhole of a country where over 60% of even the employed are packing the bags and fecking off out of here away from either the depressing shit on the radio and the elitist shit on the TV  and having Vincent bloody Browne and Missus Bloody Brown to put up with and listening to those rank idiots in the Dail who never worked a proper day in their lives and who don't have the balls to lock up the w**ker bankers who partly caused the mess and I don't have to go on about the church and their carry-on.... a large part of our lives becomes and is the GAA and for Mayo folk it's Mayo GAA. The GAA is the only spiritual and dignified entity left in this godforsaken place. So getting on with life for Mayo is to get on with the football again.


Mighty place to be if your a Dub though, i suppose.

It might not feel like it to a Mayo person but there has to be something, as you say, almost spiritual about following a team like that. It's something bigger than just following a team, and as a Dublin supporter, I almost envy Mayo supporters.

We have all the advantages. Population, money, we play all our championship matches  and now, it seems, most of our league matches too, at home. It's a pleasure to watch this Dublin team, but given those advantages and now that we've won two All-Irelands and will probably come back for a good few more, I find myself becoming much less partisan. The thrill of winning has gone. There is no desperation to win. We should be winning.

When Dublin won in 2011, it was great. We were underdogs, we hadn't won it for 16 years, we hadn't been in a final for 16 years, and they way we won it coming from behind and winning with almost the last kick was thrilling. Every one of those 16 years was worth it for that moment.

Now it just isn't the same, and it probably never again will be. Dublin have had dark days, but they were nothing compared to what it must be like for a county that hasn't won for 62 years and has lost seven finals.  We may have been underdogs in 2011, but we will never be real underdogs. The feelings of disappointment must be magnified by ten when Mayo lose compared to what Dublin fans feel, the feeling of winning will be magnified by a similar amount should they win it.

I find myself being reminded of Kilkenny people, who used to go on about the disappointment they felt in 1999 as if it was the most devastating thing that had happened to any county in history. Sorry lads, but you haven't a clue. You will never know disappointment or joy like Mayo.

I read in some paper that the other day that the Boston Red Sox failing to win a World Series for 86 years almost defined who Bostonians were as a people. There's a certain similarity alright, but they were professional players, most of whom weren't even from Boston. They might have been playing for the Yankees the next year.  The Mayo team is the Mayo people, and everybody in Mayo is a part of your team in some small way.

Mayo's continuing quest to win Sam is a heartbreaking yet beautiful  odyessy. We in Dublin will never know anything like it. In a strange way it's great for football in Mayo. Every year without Sam reinforces that hunger and reinforces the obsession. Mayo are always there or thereabouts at underage level, and few counties have reached more senior finals over the last 25 years. As long as the odyessy keeps going football in Mayo will never decline, it will only get stronger - it's as true a football county as there is. When Mayo finally win the All-Ireland, yes, you will regret that certain players didn't win All-Ireland medals, but every Mayo person will look back at every year and every defeat and realise that it was worth the journey.  Until then, you have no choice but to keep enduring,  keep working and keep hoping.

Great post.

Those who have been spolied with success seldom appreciate it as much as those who have never tasted it / waited a long time for it.

My own club (Loughgiel Shamrocks) lost six county finals in a row from 2003-2008.  This Sunday they are aiming to win their 4th County title on the trot and they also won the All Ireland Club title in 2012.  The defeats suffered in those County finals shaped our current team and brought them together.  It will be a great story if Mayo can come back next year and lift Sam.  Their fans will enjoy it all the more if they do.

Try telling Crossmaglen that.

Ok, I will. Who should I tell? Osin? Jamser Clarke? BC1?

Winning repeatedly cheapens the magic of each individual title no matter the county or club. At that point it becomes about legacy as much as the singular moment of winning.