2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[moysider]

Jaysus, how I envied Dublin fans after the final whistle. First of all I think Dublin deserved their win. Although we put in a brave and desperate end game it felt a bit like a 1point trimming such was Dublin s superiority in the 3 quarter. If we had managed to grab a draw I m not sure I d have had the courage for a replay.

I m not sure these defeats are getting easier or harder to stomach. I didn t enjoy any of the build-up or match itself of course. I was just miserable all week because I could not imagine a favourable outcome. The missus is busy doing her own stuff or she d have told me to f**k off many s a time, with plenty of justification.

I was more choked with emotion during the minor match but once the senior began, a strange calm descended over me and not even Andy s gaol got me outa the seat as Mayo fans leaped around me. I just felt that Andy s goal was against the run of play rather than a turning point, and the game would peter out to an inevitable conclusion.

Today though I m absolutely gutted. Depressed rather than the annoyance/bitterness/ anger I used to feel back in 89/96/97.
When I think of the buzz and craic that there could be about the place tonight but instead having to come to terms with this raw emptiness again is not easy.

I know likes of Iolar and Farr were worried before this one too. It s not that I dont think we have a good manager and players. But I did not buy into this 'Mayo are different this year' theory that was going about - in fairness more outside than inside the county. Yesterday showed that we were not different. Yet again, 7 times in 7 finals, the opposition did a number on us tactically while we mostly huffed and puffed with our own game. Once again the opposition neutralised our strengths (e.g hb line attacking, Aidan O Shea, Alan Dillon) while their strength scores 2-3 or 2-4 from play! I m if Bernard was playing in green and red yesterday he would not have been allowed to score 2-3 from play. We dont have a so called marque forward but if we had the opposition would have a plan for him rather than a brave lad left minding him as best he could.

We don t seem to use the month between semis and finals very effectively. We simply had no answer to Cluxton's kick out strategy once he went long and picked out runners in space. Did nobody anticipate this happening over last few weeks?

This game was a one point game and has to go in the 'should/ could have been won column'. Unfortunately we were partly the architects of our own downfall. One thing that worried me about James Horan s interviews all year has been this talk about learning and eliminating mistakes. Yet he blamed losing yesterday on mistakes! The same mistakes that have been around all year. Harsh but quality players on the ball like McLoughlin and Dillon made enough mistakes yesterday to lose several games, never mind one. Turning the ball over by not moving it quicker and lazy kick passing. But they ve been doing this all year and yet by AI final day it is still happening. Now before people lay into me and start defending the 2 boys - dont bother. They re 2 players I ve the height of time for but errors that cost us dearly yesterday have been endemic in our game for some time. McStay called it lack of respect for possession. Its some thing that can be got rid of. But it was allowed to continue.

I ve no problem with the time keeping. O Connor always takes time with frees. Didn t a ref throw up a ball for delaying a free v Roscommon? a couple of years ago. If Cillian had been quicker with those 2 last frees then maybe we would have had another play. But he cant be expected to rush his tecnique either. The other thing is that Dublin won the last kick out and won them all day long. There was as good a chance them scoring on the last play as us.

I felt we lost it in the period after half time and before Andy's goal. We were so off the pace then it was alarming. We were flat for some reason and only the efforts of Keith and the backs and Seamus kept us in it at all.

Horan is taking a lot of flak in the county today with the Feeman substitution. At the time I thought it was tactical and thought it was a bad call. But Horan says the player is unwell and that is fair enough. It was a player wellfare call, and the manager should not be taking criticism for that.

Was putting Higgins back the right call. Did his removal from the middle third contribute to our 'collapse' at begining of second half. It appears McHale or Keane were not trusted to come in. Fair enough, but I d have brought in Richie Feeney to try and disrupt the Cluxton kick out strategy and put AOS in on Brennan and try to get him on go forward ball. I also thought all year that Dillon should be in the corner where his runs are so effective, rather than hf where an athletic marker puts him on the back foot. McLoughlin never hid yesterday and got on a power of ball but unfortunately he came into this game off-colour. Pity because he s been so good and so consistent since coming into the team. The Conroy substitution did not work because there was no support runners. Carolan made little impact but I m not sure what his role was. Maybe Carolan, Feeney or Gibbons should have been used to add mobility in midfield. The Barry Moran substitution made no sense where we needed a runner rather than a big fielder. I m sorry but the substitutions looked like subs by numbers/ pecking order rather than what is needed. Like why Varley before Doherty? Why Varley at all.

Fair play to Cluxton. I thought his kick outs were what decided the game. Never saw anything like it. Clearly Dublin management saw one of our strengths (the O Shea boys in the air and doing general heavy lifting), as a potential weakness and cruelly exposed our lack of mobility around the middle. However Flynn, McCarty and Brennan also hoovered up a lot of Cluxton kickouts so it was a system failure on our part - not just the O Sheas. Not easy to deal with that of course if it is executed so well. O Sullivan, McAuley, McCarty etc. are ideal for that tactic and I dont think I ve ever seen anybody able to kick a dead-ball O'Neills better than Cluxton. Respect.

Alright, I was pessimistic before this gig but looking ahead I d be more optimistic than most I d say. Not sure we got the most out of the squad this year. I d like to have seen us set up a bit different and the Keith Higgins experiment shows that we don t have to be as rigid as lot of people like to think we must be. Still management deserve respect for the job they ve done and it was their team to pick as they saw it. They obviously have had a regular team in mind the last 2 years. Here s the team from Kerry semi 2011.

Robert Hennelly, Tom Cunniffe, Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins, Richie Feeney, Donal Vaughan, Trevor Mortimer, Aidan O'Shea, Seamus O'Shea, Kevin McLoughlin, Alan Dillon, Andy Moran, Enda Varley, Alan Freeman, Cillian O'Connor.

That team was dismissed without much fuss that day but we have made incremental improvements since and I see no reason why we can t go to another level.  Barrett, Keegan, Boyle have added to us but the lot has improved and are young enough to improve further. We need a bit of new blood to keep thing fresh and keep the drive and enthusiasm going. This is a seriously conditioned team right now and we ll be there or there abouts again next year.

Management's judgement was proved correct starting O Connor and Andy. Suggestions otherwise were just silly.

Also expected Dublin to start Ger Brennan. Crazy not too and he had a fine game. Overall Dublin did little wrong and we were within a point - on the scoreboard. We had at least 4 players well short of full fitness - Andy, Dillon, COC, Cunniffe and probably AOS - going into the game. Throw in the Freeman Flu and its no wonder people believe in curses.

[Captain Obvious]

Freeman had the flu. SOS legs were shot.

Watched it back there, jesus...Cluxton nailed us.

The little things :
Higgins Hawkeye miss point. Inches
Caff kicking ball straight to Connolly for first score.
Hennelly save that came off MDM and given as a 45 which Cluxton pointed.
Joe blowing up for half time when should have been a free for foul against Cillian.
Dublin got goals at perfect times ( similar to Kerry game )
Lee's drop into Cluxtons hand in last 5 mins..needed it badly.

C'est la vie. Thems the breaks.

Any one point game is always about inches none of the substitutions worked for James Horan yesterday and he will have to study his own performance as well as the players.  Mayo lost that final in the first half while Dublin won the game in the second half and once drawing level they never looked like losing.

[moysider]

In fairness, it was a 20 metre free with a crowded Dublin defence 12 players in front of him. Would have been a miracle to get a goal from that position. Even if he played it short they would still have been crowded out.
He was obviously hoping there was going to be more time played from the kick out for a equaliser which there wasn't.

Correct. No chance of a goal. O Connor has a slow, deliberate style which meant that maybe a minute was used up on last 2 frees. Because they were gimmies, I was amazed and screaming he didn t show more urgency to restart the game with Dublin reeling. But like golfers, freetakers need their rituals I suppose . I reckon if Andy was still on the pitch he d have grabbed those balls and lashed them over to get the ball in play again. Taking our leaders off was not smart. I could not believe our lack of urgency. Not just on that free. I recall a late free around the middle. Everything stopped. Instead of players making runs and showing - noting. Varley - just on fresh - turned his back on the ball/kicker and trotted in a straight line towards the hill goal. If it was the FBD I d have given him a bollocking. End game on AI final day and a player turns his back on the play. Unforgivable imo.

Still the game was lost imo - I cant remember Dublin losing a kick- out all day. And I wont be watching a video of this one to find out if I m right or wrong.

[Wildweasel74]

Think i said on here with 15mins to go that A O`Shea should have went to full forward with Barry Moran coming into the middle along side S O`Shea, as Mayo were playing alot of long high balls at that stage, The biggest mystery for Mayo is why Seamus O`Shea was took off, he was the best of the 4 midfielders on show yesterday

[moysider]

I can't believe Gavin came out with this tirade against the ref, did he have a few drinks in him and let his guard slip? There were a few marginal calls that went against Dublin in the first half but by and large Mayos tackiling was cleaner and executed better than Dublin's and I actually thought McQuillan had a fine game in the main. Mayo could easily argue over the incorrect 45m call in the first half and the stoppage time at the end of the game.

As for McAuley being POTY, I would say the chances are slim. He is a very limited footballer in terms of ability but is an absolute workhorse and was very important to Dublin all year. However in the absence of any standout footballers it could well be that someone like the Gooch could shade it this year. Personally I think it should go to Keith Higgins who was immense yesterday in a beaten team.

Mayo cynically fouled in the semi final last year so it's hypocritical for any poster to cry wolf now. Mc Auley is an incredible player. Anyone who thinks he's average doesn't know the game. He's the heartbeat of the Dublin team.
Donegal had the monopoly on average players winning an all ireland last year.

For any Mayo poster okay but I don't think any Tyrone head will agree with you.
Mickey and his men have been denounced throughout the land for their cynical, negative approach and it's only natural that Tyronies will feel sore as they see Dublin get no more than a mention in passing for using their style o play.
With regard to MDMA, I think he's should be a shoo-in for the POTY award. He's a solid grafter with an incredible engine and he did more than anyone else to keep Dublin heads up when the pressure was on. He plugged away from start to finish and the Dubs owe their victory in no small measure to him.

We re disagreeing a lot lately Lar so why not continue 

I ve no interest in the cynical fouling debate. Pointless.

POTY though. If it is a Dublin player it has to be Cluxton. And not about his ability to kick points - which is uncanny. Take yesterday. He kicked two, and there was never a doubt in those conditions that he would kick them. I mean i used the time Cluxton kicked those dead balls to check out the texts I was getting on the phone. On the other hand Hennelly stabbed his effort wide and there was a Cillian one central ( ok Cillian usually would nail it) that was missed. In a one point game those things were massive!

And thats before we get to the kick-outs yeaterday. He filleted us. Who would have preferred to have been missing from Dub team yesterday MDMA or Cluxton? No-brainer imo.

If it doesn t have to be a Dub, then it must be Gooch or Higgins. I d give it to Higgins and not because he s from Mayo. Hell of a player.

[Sam2011]

Jaysus, how I envied Dublin fans after the final whistle. First of all I think Dublin deserved their win. Although we put in a brave and desperate end game it felt a bit like a 1point trimming such was Dublin s superiority in the 3 quarter. If we had managed to grab a draw I m not sure I d have had the courage for a replay.

I m not sure these defeats are getting easier or harder to stomach. I didn t enjoy any of the build-up or match itself of course. I was just miserable all week because I could not imagine a favourable outcome. The missus is busy doing her own stuff or she d have told me to f**k off many s a time, with plenty of justification.

I was more choked with emotion during the minor match but once the senior began, a strange calm descended over me and not even Andy s gaol got me outa the seat as Mayo fans leaped around me. I just felt that Andy s goal was against the run of play rather than a turning point, and the game would peter out to an inevitable conclusion.

Today though I m absolutely gutted. Depressed rather than the annoyance/bitterness/ anger I used to feel back in 89/96/97.
When I think of the buzz and craic that there could be about the place tonight but instead having to come to terms with this raw emptiness again is not easy.

I know likes of Iolar and Farr were worried before this one too. It s not that I dont think we have a good manager and players. But I did not buy into this 'Mayo are different this year' theory that was going about - in fairness more outside than inside the county. Yesterday showed that we were not different. Yet again, 7 times in 7 finals, the opposition did a number on us tactically while we mostly huffed and puffed with our own game. Once again the opposition neutralised our strengths (e.g hb line attacking, Aidan O Shea, Alan Dillon) while their strength scores 2-3 or 2-4 from play! I m if Bernard was playing in green and red yesterday he would not have been allowed to score 2-3 from play. We dont have a so called marque forward but if we had the opposition would have a plan for him rather than a brave lad left minding him as best he could.

We don t seem to use the month between semis and finals very effectively. We simply had no answer to Cluxton's kick out strategy once he went long and picked out runners in space. Did nobody anticipate this happening over last few weeks?

This game was a one point game and has to go in the 'should/ could have been won column'. Unfortunately we were partly the architects of our own downfall. One thing that worried me about James Horan s interviews all year has been this talk about learning and eliminating mistakes. Yet he blamed losing yesterday on mistakes! The same mistakes that have been around all year. Harsh but quality players on the ball like McLoughlin and Dillon made enough mistakes yesterday to lose several games, never mind one. Turning the ball over by not moving it quicker and lazy kick passing. But they ve been doing this all year and yet by AI final day it is still happening. Now before people lay into me and start defending the 2 boys - dont bother. They re 2 players I ve the height of time for but errors that cost us dearly yesterday have been endemic in our game for some time. McStay called it lack of respect for possession. Its some thing that can be got rid of. But it was allowed to continue.

I ve no problem with the time keeping. O Connor always takes time with frees. Didn t a ref throw up a ball for delaying a free v Roscommon? a couple of years ago. If Cillian had been quicker with those 2 last frees then maybe we would have had another play. But he cant be expected to rush his tecnique either. The other thing is that Dublin won the last kick out and won them all day long. There was as good a chance them scoring on the last play as us.

I felt we lost it in the period after half time and before Andy's goal. We were so off the pace then it was alarming. We were flat for some reason and only the efforts of Keith and the backs and Seamus kept us in it at all.

Horan is taking a lot of flak in the county today with the Feeman substitution. At the time I thought it was tactical and thought it was a bad call. But Horan says the player is unwell and that is fair enough. It was a player wellfare call, and the manager should not be taking criticism for that.

Was putting Higgins back the right call. Did his removal from the middle third contribute to our 'collapse' at begining of second half. It appears McHale or Keane were not trusted to come in. Fair enough, but I d have brought in Richie Feeney to try and disrupt the Cluxton kick out strategy and put AOS in on Brennan and try to get him on go forward ball. I also thought all year that Dillon should be in the corner where his runs are so effective, rather than hf where an athletic marker puts him on the back foot. McLoughlin never hid yesterday and got on a power of ball but unfortunately he came into this game off-colour. Pity because he s been so good and so consistent since coming into the team. The Conroy substitution did not work because there was no support runners. Carolan made little impact but I m not sure what his role was. Maybe Carolan, Feeney or Gibbons should have been used to add mobility in midfield. The Barry Moran substitution made no sense where we needed a runner rather than a big fielder. I m sorry but the substitutions looked like subs by numbers/ pecking order rather than what is needed. Like why Varley before Doherty? Why Varley at all.

Fair play to Cluxton. I thought his kick outs were what decided the game. Never saw anything like it. Clearly Dublin management saw one of our strengths (the O Shea boys in the air and doing general heavy lifting), as a potential weakness and cruelly exposed our lack of mobility around the middle. However Flynn, McCarty and Brennan also hoovered up a lot of Cluxton kickouts so it was a system failure on our part - not just the O Sheas. Not easy to deal with that of course if it is executed so well. O Sullivan, McAuley, McCarty etc. are ideal for that tactic and I dont think I ve ever seen anybody able to kick a dead-ball O'Neills better than Cluxton. Respect.

Alright, I was pessimistic before this gig but looking ahead I d be more optimistic than most I d say. Not sure we got the most out of the squad this year. I d like to have seen us set up a bit different and the Keith Higgins experiment shows that we don t have to be as rigid as lot of people like to think we must be. Still management deserve respect for the job they ve done and it was their team to pick as they saw it. They obviously have had a regular team in mind the last 2 years. Here s the team from Kerry semi 2011.

Robert Hennelly, Tom Cunniffe, Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins, Richie Feeney, Donal Vaughan, Trevor Mortimer, Aidan O'Shea, Seamus O'Shea, Kevin McLoughlin, Alan Dillon, Andy Moran, Enda Varley, Alan Freeman, Cillian O'Connor.

That team was dismissed without much fuss that day but we have made incremental improvements since and I see no reason why we can t go to another level.  Barrett, Keegan, Boyle have added to us but the lot has improved and are young enough to improve further. We need a bit of new blood to keep thing fresh and keep the drive and enthusiasm going. This is a seriously conditioned team right now and we ll be there or there abouts again next year.

Management's judgement was proved correct starting O Connor and Andy. Suggestions otherwise were just silly.

Also expected Dublin to start Ger Brennan. Crazy not too and he had a fine game. Overall Dublin did little wrong and we were within a point - on the scoreboard. We had at least 4 players well short of full fitness - Andy, Dillon, COC, Cunniffe and probably AOS - going into the game. Throw in the Freeman Flu and its no wonder people believe in curses.

RE. The first point in bold, I'm not too sure about that. Freeman was told by the doctor that under no circumstances was he too play on Sunday.

RE. The second point in bold I really don't know. The effort the lads put in this year was unbelievable. Very hard on the lads to go through that again. There was great resilience among the players and management last year with talk about next years training programs and the start of a journey immediately after the final, none of that this year.
If we won I really believed it could have been the start of a new era in Mayo football. Instead it feels like the end of an era.

f**k it, maybe I'm reading into things too much. Today was a very long day.

[Sam2011]

Think i said on here with 15mins to go that A O`Shea should have went to full forward with Barry Moran coming into the middle along side S O`Shea, as Mayo were playing alot of long high balls at that stage, The biggest mystery for Mayo is why Seamus O`Shea was took off, he was the best of the 4 midfielders on show yesterday

Aidan was thrown in full forward for the last 10mins in last years final and we got no return out of it. So that argument is utterly pointless. At that stage in the game Dublin had men behind the ball and were hauling all Mayo men down around them.

[moysider]

Jaysus, how I envied Dublin fans after the final whistle. First of all I think Dublin deserved their win. Although we put in a brave and desperate end game it felt a bit like a 1point trimming such was Dublin s superiority in the 3 quarter. If we had managed to grab a draw I m not sure I d have had the courage for a replay.

I m not sure these defeats are getting easier or harder to stomach. I didn t enjoy any of the build-up or match itself of course. I was just miserable all week because I could not imagine a favourable outcome. The missus is busy doing her own stuff or she d have told me to f**k off many s a time, with plenty of justification.

I was more choked with emotion during the minor match but once the senior began, a strange calm descended over me and not even Andy s gaol got me outa the seat as Mayo fans leaped around me. I just felt that Andy s goal was against the run of play rather than a turning point, and the game would peter out to an inevitable conclusion.

Today though I m absolutely gutted. Depressed rather than the annoyance/bitterness/ anger I used to feel back in 89/96/97.
When I think of the buzz and craic that there could be about the place tonight but instead having to come to terms with this raw emptiness again is not easy.

I know likes of Iolar and Farr were worried before this one too. It s not that I dont think we have a good manager and players. But I did not buy into this 'Mayo are different this year' theory that was going about - in fairness more outside than inside the county. Yesterday showed that we were not different. Yet again, 7 times in 7 finals, the opposition did a number on us tactically while we mostly huffed and puffed with our own game. Once again the opposition neutralised our strengths (e.g hb line attacking, Aidan O Shea, Alan Dillon) while their strength scores 2-3 or 2-4 from play! I m if Bernard was playing in green and red yesterday he would not have been allowed to score 2-3 from play. We dont have a so called marque forward but if we had the opposition would have a plan for him rather than a brave lad left minding him as best he could.

We don t seem to use the month between semis and finals very effectively. We simply had no answer to Cluxton's kick out strategy once he went long and picked out runners in space. Did nobody anticipate this happening over last few weeks?

This game was a one point game and has to go in the 'should/ could have been won column'. Unfortunately we were partly the architects of our own downfall. One thing that worried me about James Horan s interviews all year has been this talk about learning and eliminating mistakes. Yet he blamed losing yesterday on mistakes! The same mistakes that have been around all year. Harsh but quality players on the ball like McLoughlin and Dillon made enough mistakes yesterday to lose several games, never mind one. Turning the ball over by not moving it quicker and lazy kick passing. But they ve been doing this all year and yet by AI final day it is still happening. Now before people lay into me and start defending the 2 boys - dont bother. They re 2 players I ve the height of time for but errors that cost us dearly yesterday have been endemic in our game for some time. McStay called it lack of respect for possession. Its some thing that can be got rid of. But it was allowed to continue.

I ve no problem with the time keeping. O Connor always takes time with frees. Didn t a ref throw up a ball for delaying a free v Roscommon? a couple of years ago. If Cillian had been quicker with those 2 last frees then maybe we would have had another play. But he cant be expected to rush his tecnique either. The other thing is that Dublin won the last kick out and won them all day long. There was as good a chance them scoring on the last play as us.

I felt we lost it in the period after half time and before Andy's goal. We were so off the pace then it was alarming. We were flat for some reason and only the efforts of Keith and the backs and Seamus kept us in it at all.

Horan is taking a lot of flak in the county today with the Feeman substitution. At the time I thought it was tactical and thought it was a bad call. But Horan says the player is unwell and that is fair enough. It was a player wellfare call, and the manager should not be taking criticism for that.

Was putting Higgins back the right call. Did his removal from the middle third contribute to our 'collapse' at begining of second half. It appears McHale or Keane were not trusted to come in. Fair enough, but I d have brought in Richie Feeney to try and disrupt the Cluxton kick out strategy and put AOS in on Brennan and try to get him on go forward ball. I also thought all year that Dillon should be in the corner where his runs are so effective, rather than hf where an athletic marker puts him on the back foot. McLoughlin never hid yesterday and got on a power of ball but unfortunately he came into this game off-colour. Pity because he s been so good and so consistent since coming into the team. The Conroy substitution did not work because there was no support runners. Carolan made little impact but I m not sure what his role was. Maybe Carolan, Feeney or Gibbons should have been used to add mobility in midfield. The Barry Moran substitution made no sense where we needed a runner rather than a big fielder. I m sorry but the substitutions looked like subs by numbers/ pecking order rather than what is needed. Like why Varley before Doherty? Why Varley at all.

Fair play to Cluxton. I thought his kick outs were what decided the game. Never saw anything like it. Clearly Dublin management saw one of our strengths (the O Shea boys in the air and doing general heavy lifting), as a potential weakness and cruelly exposed our lack of mobility around the middle. However Flynn, McCarty and Brennan also hoovered up a lot of Cluxton kickouts so it was a system failure on our part - not just the O Sheas. Not easy to deal with that of course if it is executed so well. O Sullivan, McAuley, McCarty etc. are ideal for that tactic and I dont think I ve ever seen anybody able to kick a dead-ball O'Neills better than Cluxton. Respect.

Alright, I was pessimistic before this gig but looking ahead I d be more optimistic than most I d say. Not sure we got the most out of the squad this year. I d like to have seen us set up a bit different and the Keith Higgins experiment shows that we don t have to be as rigid as lot of people like to think we must be. Still management deserve respect for the job they ve done and it was their team to pick as they saw it. They obviously have had a regular team in mind the last 2 years. Here s the team from Kerry semi 2011.

Robert Hennelly, Tom Cunniffe, Ger Cafferkey, Keith Higgins, Richie Feeney, Donal Vaughan, Trevor Mortimer, Aidan O'Shea, Seamus O'Shea, Kevin McLoughlin, Alan Dillon, Andy Moran, Enda Varley, Alan Freeman, Cillian O'Connor.

That team was dismissed without much fuss that day but we have made incremental improvements since and I see no reason why we can t go to another level.  Barrett, Keegan, Boyle have added to us but the lot has improved and are young enough to improve further. We need a bit of new blood to keep thing fresh and keep the drive and enthusiasm going. This is a seriously conditioned team right now and we ll be there or there abouts again next year.

Management's judgement was proved correct starting O Connor and Andy. Suggestions otherwise were just silly.

Also expected Dublin to start Ger Brennan. Crazy not too and he had a fine game. Overall Dublin did little wrong and we were within a point - on the scoreboard. We had at least 4 players well short of full fitness - Andy, Dillon, COC, Cunniffe and probably AOS - going into the game. Throw in the Freeman Flu and its no wonder people believe in curses.

RE. The first point in bold, I'm not too sure about that. Freeman was told by the doctor that under no circumstances was he too play on Sunday.

RE. The second point in bold I really don't know. The effort the lads put in this year was unbelievable. Very hard on the lads to go through that again. There was great resilience among the players and management last year with talk about next years training programs and the start of a journey immediately after the final, none of that this year.
If we won I really believed it could have been the start of a new era in Mayo football. Instead it feels like the end of an era.

f**k it, maybe I'm reading into things too much. Today was a very long day.

Sure you re agreeing with me on the Freeman call!  Maybe the issue is starting him at all. What doctor told him not to play? Team doctor or GP? If it was GP it put Sean  Moffatt in some position! A lad with a sore throat and temperature should not be playing football.

As regards the second point. I think maybe you are reading too much into it. These lads are seriously conditioned and quality footballers in their pomp. Yeah they ve lost another AI final but the training they do is a huge part of their lives and a normal part of their lives. Very few can get to that level and those that do usually want to stay there as long as they can.

Yeah, we ve lost 2 AIs in a row and it is hard for everybody to deal with. The players will be hurting for a long time but they will come back stronger.

[moysider]

Think i said on here with 15mins to go that A O`Shea should have went to full forward with Barry Moran coming into the middle along side S O`Shea, as Mayo were playing alot of long high balls at that stage, The biggest mystery for Mayo is why Seamus O`Shea was took off, he was the best of the 4 midfielders on show yesterday

Aidan was thrown in full forward for the last 10mins in last years final and we got no return out of it. So that argument is utterly pointless. At that stage in the game Dublin had men behind the ball and were hauling all Mayo men down around them.

Agree. We needed to be in a position to do the hauling down with a bit to go. I wouldn t mind but we had enough about us in the first half to take control of the game. Starting the 2nd half so flat was critical. Look, we saw it last year. Chasing a game against a top team in an AI final is not something we re good at. We need to dictate things. Tyrone game set alarm bells ringing for me. Taken out of our zone we are vulnerable. Management have to take a bit of flak for this. I could be completely wrong here, but it appears to me that management hope/expect/ trust players to find their way out of situations - like say the Tyrone semi. OK they did find a way, and I think Horan used that expression in postmatch interview.

Fair enough, he s the coach/boss and that s his philosophy and I m sure a lot he says to media is not 'talk turkey'. 'learning from mistakes' is another soundbite that Horan uses. Again, sound way to go about things. But as I ve said already endemic flaws probably lost us another AI.

Sometimes players need to be told what to do and not do,and not repeat bad habits ad nauseum. Players often like to have their role defined in simple terms.

[INDIANA]

Think i said on here with 15mins to go that A O`Shea should have went to full forward with Barry Moran coming into the middle along side S O`Shea, as Mayo were playing alot of long high balls at that stage, The biggest mystery for Mayo is why Seamus O`Shea was took off, he was the best of the 4 midfielders on show yesterday

Aidan was thrown in full forward for the last 10mins in last years final and we got no return out of it. So that argument is utterly pointless. At that stage in the game Dublin had men behind the ball and were hauling all Mayo men down around them.

Agree. We needed to be in a position to do the hauling down with a bit to go. I wouldn t mind but we had enough about us in the first half to take control of the game. Starting the 2nd half so flat was critical. Look, we saw it last year. Chasing a game against a top team in an AI final is not something we re good at. We need to dictate things. Tyrone game set alarm bells ringing for me. Taken out of our zone we are vulnerable. Management have to take a bit of flak for this. I could be completely wrong here, but it appears to me that management hope/expect/ trust players to find their way out of situations - like say the Tyrone semi. OK they did find a way, and I think Horan used that expression in postmatch interview.

Fair enough, he s the coach/boss and that s his philosophy and I m sure a lot he says to media is not 'talk turkey'. 'learning from mistakes' is another soundbite that Horan uses. Again, sound way to go about things. But as I ve said already endemic flaws probably lost us another AI.

Sometimes players need to be told what to do and not do,and not repeat bad habits ad nauseum. Players often like to have their role defined in simple terms.

Its more down to Mayo missing the 3/4 players needed to to get the job done. I don't think anyone could say they didn't expend every effort trying to win. They have 10/11 of the starting 15 there its adding the few extras that will be the difference.

I also think Horan is starting to make a tit of himself in the cynical fouling stakes. Its startingt to look like sour grapes now. If Mayo hadn't indulged in the same carry on last year he'd have a point. But because they did he has no point.

[Never beat the deeler]

Think i said on here with 15mins to go that A O`Shea should have went to full forward with Barry Moran coming into the middle along side S O`Shea, as Mayo were playing alot of long high balls at that stage, The biggest mystery for Mayo is why Seamus O`Shea was took off, he was the best of the 4 midfielders on show yesterday

Aidan was thrown in full forward for the last 10mins in last years final and we got no return out of it. So that argument is utterly pointless. At that stage in the game Dublin had men behind the ball and were hauling all Mayo men down around them.

Agree. We needed to be in a position to do the hauling down with a bit to go. I wouldn t mind but we had enough about us in the first half to take control of the game. Starting the 2nd half so flat was critical. Look, we saw it last year. Chasing a game against a top team in an AI final is not something we re good at. We need to dictate things. Tyrone game set alarm bells ringing for me. Taken out of our zone we are vulnerable. Management have to take a bit of flak for this. I could be completely wrong here, but it appears to me that management hope/expect/ trust players to find their way out of situations - like say the Tyrone semi. OK they did find a way, and I think Horan used that expression in postmatch interview.

Fair enough, he s the coach/boss and that s his philosophy and I m sure a lot he says to media is not 'talk turkey'. 'learning from mistakes' is another soundbite that Horan uses. Again, sound way to go about things. But as I ve said already endemic flaws probably lost us another AI.

Sometimes players need to be told what to do and not do,and not repeat bad habits ad nauseum. Players often like to have their role defined in simple terms.

Its more down to Mayo missing the 3/4 players needed to to get the job done. I don't think anyone could say they didn't expend every effort trying to win. They have 10/11 of the starting 15 there its adding the few extras that will be the difference.

I also think Horan is starting to make a tit of himself in the cynical fouling stakes. Its startingt to look like sour grapes now. If Mayo hadn't indulged in the same carry on last year he'd have a point. But because they did he has no point.

What did Horan say?

[Sam2011]

Sure you re agreeing with me on the Freeman call!  Maybe the issue is starting him at all. What doctor told him not to play? Team doctor or GP? If it was GP it put Sean  Moffatt in some position! A lad with a sore throat and temperature should not be playing football.

As regards the second point. I think maybe you are reading too much into it. These lads are seriously conditioned and quality footballers in their pomp. Yeah they ve lost another AI final but the training they do is a huge part of their lives and a normal part of their lives. Very few can get to that level and those that do usually want to stay there as long as they can.

Yeah, we ve lost 2 AIs in a row and it is hard for everybody to deal with. The players will be hurting for a long time but they will come back stronger.
[/quote]

Nah, if it was a player welfare call he would have never started him. I don't know what doctor told him not to play but I presume it wasn't Sean.

I really hope your right about the lads coming back stronger. At the moment I'm really finding it hard to see any positives in this defeat.

[ballinaman]

Sometimes players need to be told what to do and not do,and not repeat bad habits ad nauseum. Players often like to have their role defined in simple terms.

Funny, I was chatting to one of the lads briefly last week and asked if his head was light with potential match ups and tactics...he replied, "nah..not really, just a basic plan and told to play away". He's very honest so don't think he was trying to be coy or anything.
I nearly fell over when I started to think about it further....

[seafoid]

Maybe mayo should take it easy next year and  aim for another tilt with the missing pieces in 2015. They are not that far away .

[Applesisapples]

Refs rarely fall for the arm-dragging thing anymore.
To be honest we can imagine all sorts of scenarios where players will try to exploit the rule but it's undobtedly a step in the right direction.

McQuillian bought a few yesterday including one that ended as a point for Dublin.