2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[AZOffaly]

right at the death, no. But Dublin went for this with 10 minutes left at least. I don't think they'd have done that if they were going to get the line with 10 minutes left. With 2 or 3 left, then yes, possibly, but again I'd say only if they had subs to come on. It would be a rare enough circumstance where a foul and black card, reducing you to 14, would be worth a foul 70 yards out.

[Donnellys Hollow]

For all the talk of Dublin's superiority and Mayo forwards being poor, there was only a point in it. Suggesting that Dublin forwards can just click and start rattling the twines at some future stage is a bit speculative. Top drawer shooters don't keep hitting the keeper with their shots. Bernard Brogan is sheer class, but had he not shown up today I'm not sure the rest could have pulled them through.

You're judging Dublin on just one game.

Remember Dublin are League Champions (after losing only one game), Leinster Champions and now All Ireland Champions – what more does a team have to do to prove its class?

Win the O'Byrne Cup.

[The Hill is Blue]

Win the O'Byrne Cup.

The one that got away 

[Bord na Mona man]

right at the death, no. But Dublin went for this with 10 minutes left at least. I don't think they'd have done that if they were going to get the line with 10 minutes left. With 2 or 3 left, then yes, possibly, but again I'd say only if they had subs to come on. It would be a rare enough circumstance where a foul and black card, reducing you to 14, would be worth a foul 70 yards out.

The prospect of conceding a 20 metre free would also discourage the corner forward from rugby tackling the corner back way up the field as well. Both punishments could be issued if needs be.

[AZOffaly]

Absolutely.

[seafoid]

For all the talk of Dublin's superiority and Mayo forwards being poor, there was only a point in it. Suggesting that Dublin forwards can just click and start rattling the twines at some future stage is a bit speculative. Top drawer shooters don't keep hitting the keeper with their shots. Bernard Brogan is sheer class, but had he not shown up today I'm not sure the rest could have pulled them through.

You're judging Dublin on just one game.

Remember Dublin are League Champions (after losing only one game), Leinster Champions and now All Ireland Champions – what more does a team have to do to prove its class?

It has to win the Munster championship.

[seafoid]

I'm not so sure the black card is going to have much impact in the last couple minutes of a 2 or 3 point game where the serial fouling occurs.
In fact it will probably slow the game down even more as the ref has to administer the sanction and the player possibly argues with the ref, traipses off and generally kills time. It becomes an even bigger momentum breaker as the defending team gets more time to re-organise.

How about giving the referee the option of adding a minute onto the clock for every such yellow/black offence and making the punishment a 20 metre free in front of goal? It would a more targeted and situation appropriate.

As I've said before the black card becomes a lower impact punishment as the game progresses, yet the impact of the black card offences increases. Losing a man right at the death is always not a massive price to pay, whereas conceding an easy scoring chances might well be.

I think a 20 yard free would be a great idea

[muppet]

I'm not so sure the black card is going to have much impact in the last couple minutes of a 2 or 3 point game where the serial fouling occurs.
In fact it will probably slow the game down even more as the ref has to administer the sanction and the player possibly argues with the ref, traipses off and generally kills time. It becomes an even bigger momentum breaker as the defending team gets more time to re-organise.

How about giving the referee the option of adding a minute onto the clock for every such yellow/black offence and making the punishment a 20 metre free in front of goal? It would a more targeted and situation appropriate.

As I've said before the black card becomes a lower impact punishment as the game progresses, yet the impact of the black card offences increases. Losing a man right at the death is always not a massive price to pay, whereas conceding an easy scoring chances might well be.

I think a 20 yard free would be a great idea

This discussion is going down the Basketball team fouls route.

[Farrandeelin]

First off, congrats to Dublin on winning the Sam - the best team won. They took their chances when they were on top and we hit a lot of stupid wides early on when we had our spell on top. Secondly, if this post makes no sense, it's because I'm just so trína chéile at this moment in time.

As I said already we were on top early on in the game. I thought that a good start would be crucial. We were on  top for the first 10 minutes, but McLoughlin and O'Connor had 2 bad wides each. We still lead by 3 points. Then bang, goal number one, what Hennelly was at, I'll never know, but it was a c**k-up on his part coming off the line like that. Seamie O'Shea responded with a point and it was tit for tat for the remainder of the first half. Despite leading at half time by one, I was given hope that something good could come out of the game and we could win it. The Dubs played their best football in the third quarter. They completely nullified the O'Sheas influence throughout the game with breaking ball, which our lads weren't able to get their hands on.

I was hoping that Mayo's forwards and halfbacks and midfield would step up to the mark yesterday. Midfield and forwards let them down big time. I cannot understand Horan taking Freeman off so early. He scored a point and won a free inn the time he was on the field, and then we started launching high balls in on top of Cillian with a bad shoulder and Andy who was beaten well for pace, Freeman, had he been left on I feel would have done some damage with the high balls. Another thing that left me with question marks...why was Cunniffe taken off? Surely to Christ if anyone deserved to be taken off it was Vaughan. Carolan along with the rest of the forward unit offered nothing. It didn't go right for Conroy either I thought. Would Feeney have won more breaking ball around the middle when the chips were down, like he did last year in the final?

Fair play to Dublin though, deserving champions. It seems as if every other county will win Sam before we do again. But it was only by one point. Those are the breaks I suppose. Mayo never seem to f**king get any. About the free at the end, he should have gone for goal... I'm devastated.

[INDIANA]

First off, congrats to Dublin on winning the Sam - the best team won. They took their chances when they were on top and we hit a lot of stupid wides early on when we had our spell on top. Secondly, if this post makes no sense, it's because I'm just so trína chéile at this moment in time.

As I said already we were on top early on in the game. I thought that a good start would be crucial. We were on  top for the first 10 minutes, but McLoughlin and O'Connor had 2 bad wides each. We still lead by 3 points. Then bang, goal number one, what Hennelly was at, I'll never know, but it was a c**k-up on his part coming off the line like that. Seamie O'Shea responded with a point and it was tit for tat for the remainder of the first half. Despite leading at half time by one, I was given hope that something good could come out of the game and we could win it. The Dubs played their best football in the third quarter. They completely nullified the O'Sheas influence throughout the game with breaking ball, which our lads weren't able to get their hands on.

I was hoping that Mayo's forwards and halfbacks and midfield would step up to the mark yesterday. Midfield and forwards let them down big time. I cannot understand Horan taking Freeman off so early. He scored a point and won a free inn the time he was on the field, and then we started launching high balls in on top of Cillian with a bad shoulder and Andy who was beaten well for pace, Freeman, had he been left on I feel would have done some damage with the high balls. Another thing that left me with question marks...why was Cunniffe taken off? Surely to Christ if anyone deserved to be taken off it was Vaughan. Carolan along with the rest of the forward unit offered nothing. It didn't go right for Conroy either I thought. Would Feeney have won more breaking ball around the middle when the chips were down, like he did last year in the final?

Fair play to Dublin though, deserving champions. It seems as if every other county will win Sam before we do again. But it was only by one point. Those are the breaks I suppose. Mayo never seem to f**king get any. About the free at the end, he should have gone for goal... I'm devastated.

Cunniffe was injured. Pity he started well on mannion. Mannion getting injured worked to our advantage as O Gara did damage when he came on. He said Freeman had the flu. Looked ok to me!

I would say Conroy was flying in training and Horan  wanted to get him in ASAP. Didn't work unfortunately.

You need a mobile midfielder. I'm not sure O Se will get away with his lack of pace at midfield much longer. His brother is the more effective midfielder.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Well done to Dublin, better team won. Neither team will be happy with its display as the final failed to live up to its billing. Feel for Mayo but they've been here before and one day they will get over the line. Cluxtons kickouts were key yesterday, haven't seen the stats yet but he invariably found his man. Deadly accurate, especially when going with a low trajectory down a narrow channel to the runner. Very surprised at the early substitution of Freeman and not moving AOS inside when it was clear they needed a goal. And where was Richie Feeney?

Mayo will spend the winter ruing their wastefulness in front of goal in the first half and Cafferkey will shudder at letting Brogan out in front of him for the goal (had a good game on him apart from that). Lee Keegan deserves a special mention for Mayo, thought he was outstanding, nailed on for an All Star.

[Sam2011]

Absolutely shattered after that. Really believed that this was finally our year. There was such belief around this team. Gutted for the players and management. Don't know where we are going from this defeat. If James stays (highly unlikely) I'll back them to have another go but if he and his back room team depart, I will be seriously concerned about where we are heading.
Too many ifs, buts and maybes to talk about just yet.
Out of the 7 finals (including the 96 replay) this one is definitely the hardest one to take. It will probably be next year before the wounds fully heal and I watch the game back.
RE. The substitutions,  I heard on Saturday that Freeman was at the doctor that morning with a sore throat and had a dose of the flu. I also seen Sean Moffett going over to him shortly before he went off. Cunniffe was injured and O'Gara was winning most ball that was going in that direction. As for Seamie going off and the non appearance of Feeney I really have no clue.
Congratulations to Dublin, overall the better team. Enjoy the celebrations.
Heart wrenching stuff, but we're Mayo so we'll be back.

[The Biff]

This discussion is going down the Basketball team fouls route.

That's a scenario that has a lot of merit, in my opinion.  While the "cynical fouling" may be tactically astute and deemed appropriate to many as a way to close out a game, it is not in the spirit of the sport.  Deliberate Fouling should not be viewed as a positive thing.  We should be encouraging and facilitating scoring, and the dis-incentive against cynical fouling should be quite severe so that it is a real deterrent.

Imagine if those last few pull-downs saw Mayo march up directly to the 20 metre line for a free.  I think that would be appropriate punishment for defenders who fail to defend within the rules.  Ultimately, I would like to see this action accompany the new Black-Card system.

[AZOffaly]

The rub with all of these proposals is that they could well be a charter for divers. Imagine me losing by two points with 5 minutes to go (or actually at any time in the game). Lad comes in to tackle me, I hook his arm and pull him down on top of me. Get up in high dudgeon, fire the ball off the ground, roar at the ref etc etc. Lad protests his innocence but gets his black card and I trot up to the 20 metre line to take my point.

It's not too hard to picture carnage there. So what I'd like to see is a counterweight. If the referee deems you have dived or engineered the free, you are the one who gets the black card. But then you are placing an awful burden on the already struggling refs.

I'm interested in the black card and seeing how it goes, but if I am mister cynical coach, I'm telling my lads to try and get the opposition's best player the black card in the first 20 minutes. Run at him lads, and go down roaring.

Thats worse cheating in my book.

[Jinxy]

Refs rarely fall for the arm-dragging thing anymore.
To be honest we can imagine all sorts of scenarios where players will try to exploit the rule but it's undobtedly a step in the right direction.