Cork v Clare All Ireland SHC Final Sunday 8th September 3.30pm

[AZOffaly]

20 metres back when the ball is being lifted, but if it takes 2 seconds for the ball to come back down out of the elements, can the goalie not come off his line? That said, I think Kelly probably did start out from in front of the defenders on his line, but they all do that for 'ordinary' frees. I'm not sure if there's a different rule for penalties.

[Applesisapples]

I would definitely be a neutral rooting for Clare. I would agree with the Offlay guys that Gavin, whilst by his own standards had a bad day, was not the reason why Clare didn't win. They didn't get the rub of the green at times (miss kicked goal attempt) and were on the wrong side of a few dodgy calls, but they got a few as well. Any team scoring 25 points should win but ultimately the goals cost them and that wasn't the ref's doing. I don't think Davy believes that either...he's just playing the game. Not a big fan of Cork but I have the utmost respect for JBM and what he has achieved. Fair play also to Nash as he said somethings put games in perspective and te untimely death of Barry Kelly's young wife reminds us that ultimately it is only sport.

[Applesisapples]

I'm not sure Kelly made much of a blatant infringement for the first one, but maybe Miltown can tell us. Firstly, for an 'ordinary 20 metre free' does the goalie have to be on the line? Or can he just be a certain distance away?

Secondly, I believe the ball is in play when the striker lifts it, so the goalie can move at that stage anyway. Nash threw the ball so high and so far that he was nearly in on top of the goalie coming the other way.

While in football it is 13 metres, in hurling players have to be 20 metres back from frees. So this rule effectively pins the keeper and others to the goal line regardless.
I can see the need for more clarification about the rising of the ball for frees going on from here though.

There is no need for clarification Anthony Nash's technique is perfectly within the rules as it all takes place within one movement. He's not the first Corkman to do so. Christy Ring perfected the same technique years ago. Once the ball is in play there is nothing in the rules to prevent the keeper encroaching, yesterday he was not on his line to start with...one for Clare from the ref?

[Bingo]

As a neutral yesterday I was probably siding for Clare but truth been told when Cork got their last goal and last point, i jumped out of my seat, the final Clare point got the same. Was just one of those games.

As a side, enjoyed the halftime stuff yesterday. That freestyle hurling has good potential.

[AZOffaly]

Pa Cronin is from the Nicky English school of free taking too. Nicky used to balance the ball on the hurl for an inordinate amount of time before striking. DJ used to do something similar I think..

[johnneycool]

Pa Cronin is from the Nicky English school of free taking too. Nicky used to balance the ball on the hurl for an inordinate amount of time before striking. DJ used to do something similar I think..

I think that should be a foul, it should be a sharp jab then strike, not a slide the hurl under that ball, balance it for a few strides then hit it.

[highorlow]

on the additional time played by the ref.
obv we all know the timekeeping is at the refs discretion.
it was 29 seconds from the ball went out for a sideline at the end of the game until the cork man actually took the sideline cut.

Well if the banner goalie had given the sliotar back the cut might have been taken quicker.

[belleaqua]

As an Offaly man, I have great time for Brian Gavin as a ref, but I must admit yesterday I thought he gave Cork a couple of seriously handy frees. The Clare fullback nearly had his hand broken in a swipe that could have even been a red card by a harsh ref, if it was deemed a deliberate chop down on the hand. To turn around and give Cork the free in was unreal. Then the barging call where he gave the free to Cork as well was brutal.

After that though, I didn't see him do too much wrong. He'd have had to go by Umpires advice for the O'Neill/Horan incident, but unless they told him that both players struck, he was always going to go with a yellow each. Maybe if he saw O'Neill's belt he'd have lined him, but then it also appeared that Horan hit into the midriff of O'Neill, so does Horan walk as well? By the letter of the law, yes. Striking, or attempting to strike, with the hurley.

Sometimes I think Brian is hoist by his own petard as he has a name for being a man's ref, and letting the game flow and is sparing with the reds. Yesterday that might have counted against him in that incident.

The biggest turning point of all I felt was Paudge Collins decision to aim a kick at the sliothar instead of using his hurley. The fact that he air kicked made it worse, and then to see the ball going up the other end and a goal coming off it was sickening for Clare.

Clare by far the better team on the day and I thought Conor Ryan, the Clare #9 was MOTM, particularly when he was operating at centre back, he was immense as were the whole Clare half back line.

Watched that back on the Sunday Game last night and it looks a bad call no doubt. I actually thought at the time it was a definite Cork free in as it happened. Just the angle I saw it. Maybe it was the same for Gavin. Easy for us to make a decision seeing it 2 or 3 times. Gavin had a split second and saw it from a different view to the cameras. No doubt it was wrong but maybe not as blatant or incomprehensible as we think.

[johnneycool]

on the additional time played by the ref.
obv we all know the timekeeping is at the refs discretion.
it was 29 seconds from the ball went out for a sideline at the end of the game until the cork man actually took the sideline cut.

Well if the banner goalie had given the sliotar back the cut might have been taken quicker.

Even after Kelly threw the ball backwards there still wasn't a Cork man in place to hit it for quite a few seconds.

On Kellys grip, he did look a bit pedestrian getting the hurl over to his right side, something allegedly the Kilkenny lads used to target Brendan Cummins opposite side too as they felt it was his weakness. Kellys great save in the first half was on his left side, maybe he'd be better showing the Cork forwards more of the goals on his good side from now on.

[Bord na Mona man]

on the additional time played by the ref.
obv we all know the timekeeping is at the refs discretion.
it was 29 seconds from the ball went out for a sideline at the end of the game until the cork man actually took the sideline cut.

Well if the banner goalie had given the sliotar back the cut might have been taken quicker.

Even after Kelly threw the ball backwards there still wasn't a Cork man in place to hit it for quite a few seconds.

On Kellys grip, he did look a bit pedestrian getting the hurl over to his right side, something allegedly the Kilkenny lads used to target Brendan Cummins opposite side too as they felt it was his weakness. Kellys great save in the first half was on his left side, maybe he'd be better showing the Cork forwards more of the goals on his good side from now on.

Aye, but Cummins was a lot quicker at getting the hurley across his body though.
Look at Shefflin's penalty in 2009, Cummins always gives himself whiplash trying to get the hurley around his body in time. He failed by fractions and almost doubled the ball onwards into the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a74RMGL_c8E

Another problem for Kelly is how short his reach becomes by the time he gets it to his right side. He holds his right hand way too far down the hurley therefore his reach barely extends a foot beyond his right shoulder.

[CitySlicker11]

Why didn't Stephen Moylan play that sideline ball along the line towards the corner flag?

Hindsight. Lucky Sean Cavanagh wasn't playing.

[CitySlicker11]

As an Offaly man, I have great time for Brian Gavin as a ref, but I must admit yesterday I thought he gave Cork a couple of seriously handy frees. The Clare fullback nearly had his hand broken in a swipe that could have even been a red card by a harsh ref, if it was deemed a deliberate chop down on the hand. To turn around and give Cork the free in was unreal. Then the barging call where he gave the free to Cork as well was brutal.

After that though, I didn't see him do too much wrong. He'd have had to go by Umpires advice for the O'Neill/Horan incident, but unless they told him that both players struck, he was always going to go with a yellow each. Maybe if he saw O'Neill's belt he'd have lined him, but then it also appeared that Horan hit into the midriff of O'Neill, so does Horan walk as well? By the letter of the law, yes. Striking, or attempting to strike, with the hurley.

Sometimes I think Brian is hoist by his own petard as he has a name for being a man's ref, and letting the game flow and is sparing with the reds. Yesterday that might have counted against him in that incident.

The biggest turning point of all I felt was Paudge Collins decision to aim a kick at the sliothar instead of using his hurley. The fact that he air kicked made it worse, and then to see the ball going up the other end and a goal coming off it was sickening for Clare.

Clare by far the better team on the day and I thought Conor Ryan, the Clare #9 was MOTM, particularly when he was operating at centre back, he was immense as were the whole Clare half back line.

Watched that back on the Sunday Game last night and it looks a bad call no doubt. I actually thought at the time it was a definite Cork free in as it happened. Just the angle I saw it. Maybe it was the same for Gavin. Easy for us to make a decision seeing it 2 or 3 times. Gavin had a split second and saw it from a different view to the cameras. No doubt it was wrong but maybe not as blatant or incomprehensible as we think.

I agree, remember thinking during the game that it was the correct decision, however on TV Gavin turned out to be wrong. Horgan's free style is fine, and great to watch. He is a wonderful striker of the ball as in Ryan and Nash.

[Milltown Row2]

There is too much complaining about Gavin and I think Clare and neutrals pulling for them are overly focussing on this because of how Clare blew a massive chance of an All Ireland.

First off, there was the perception beforehand that Gavin would 'let the play flow' and let both teams rip the heads off each other as in now tradition in AI finals. His appointment was particularly welcomed by those who were unhappy with the greater enforcement of the rules in this year's championship.
Clare seemed suckered into the trap more than Cork early on and their over exuberant tackling was punished. Also, Clare conceded 13 metres a number of times for dissent. Another sign that their discipline wasn't all there.

The outrage over Pat Horgan getting red in the Munster final for hitting down on the head was probably a factor in the O'Neill yellow card. Also when it's an umpire's word, a referee tends to be even more reluctant. It should have been a red and maybe had Gavin seen it properly, he would have taken this view.

The 2 swing decisions were for the charging Cork player winning a free and McInerney being blown for overholding after receiving what looked like a chop.
However I got the feeling that Gavin realised these were contentious and evened it up a little. He let Clare away with a couple of obvious offences afterwards, including a blatant pick up off the ground. He also warned the Clare keeper Kelly about staying on his line the 2nd time he faced an Anthony Nash placed ball. Which was tantamount acknowledgement that he let him away with a blatant infringement for the first one.

The side with the persecution complex rarely sees this though. A referee is better off to pull up the other side for a couple of small things instead to make it more obvious that a bit of balancing is taking place.

I'm not sure Kelly made much of a blatant infringement for the first one, but maybe Miltown can tell us. Firstly, for an 'ordinary 20 metre free' does the goalie have to be on the line? Or can he just be a certain distance away?

Secondly, I believe the ball is in play when the striker lifts it, so the goalie can move at that stage anyway. Nash threw the ball so high and so far that he was nearly in on top of the goalie coming the other way.

It's not a foul in my book anyways, the second he lifts it then the keeper or anyone else can chase it down, I did think the keep was off his line anyway so he should have been pulled for that, as for the second one Nash tortured Galvin the whole way in about so he was always going to say to him.

Wouldn't be too hard with Galvin I thought he'd got a couple wrong but in truth it wasn't the worst display of refereeing at headquarters

[lawnseed]

I've never posted on the hurling discussion before mostly because Armagh folk know very little about hurling in comparison to the two counties who played yesterday.(indeed less than most counties) I think the game was fantastic I started off as a neutral even after living in cork for a couple of years but as the game wore on Clare had the edge.
I simply cannot believe the comments on the radio today about the gaa cashing in..blah blah.. and people from both cork and Clare yapping about having to head back to croke park. anyone who has any spare tickets send them to Armagh it would be a great privilege to get to see the replay of this game from anywhere in croke park.

[Wildweasel74]

Cork hadnt been there in 7/8yrs and Clare 11, you think they like another day out, tight feckers!! love my team to be in a final they bouncing back down a few wks later for the replay