Time for Joe to go??

[AZOffaly]

Really good post, instead of the brolly led hysteria, it's good to see someone having a proper look at the issue.
It would be interesting to compare this against other games in the championship to see if its in any way out of the ordinary. (And I would suspect it isn't)

Well I just took a look at Kerry Cavan there for comparison using the same criteria ( I didn't ref; used official definition of cynical fouling, etc).

Interesting stuff. Kerry were just as adept as Tyrone at picking up black cards in my scenario, albeit heavily, heavily weighted towards the second half when the tide turned a bit and they tried to kill the game off. In the first half there were just 3 such fouls, 2-1 to Kerry with both of theirs similar efforts by Kilian young as he was run at. Cavan's was a lazy forwards tackle by Reilly as he defended deep.

11 Minutes. Kerry 6. Young. Pulling Down. Outside Own 45.
21 Minutes. Kerry 6. Young. Pulling Down. Outside Own 45.
25 Minutes. Cavan 13. Reilly. Pulling Down. Inside Own 20.

In the second half Kerry picked up another 5 hypothetical black cards, albeit one may have been harsh against Galvin. Cavan were choir boys in terms of black card fouls until frustration kicked in at the very death, and these weren't common or garden cynical, more 'f**k it anyway' type throwing your hat at it.

35 Minutes. Kerry 10. Galvin Yellow Card. Pulling Down. Opponents 45.
36 Minutes. Kerry 22. Moran.  Pulling Down. Own 20.
39 Minutes, Kerry 4 Enright, Pulling Down. Own 20.
59 Minutes. Kerry 13, Dec O'Sullivan Yellow Card. Pulling Down. Opposition 20.
65 Mins. Cavan 3 Dunne. Pulling Down. Own 45.
69 Mins. Cavan 24 Argue Yellow Card. Pulling Down. Opponents 45.
70 Minutes. Kerry 7, Crowley. Yellow Card. Pulling Down. Opposition 20.

That gave an overall total of 7 for Kerry and 3 for Cavan.

Interestingly, this game may also highlight a major flaw in the new rule. While there were 10 black card fouls, there were also a significant number of equally cynical fouls committed by both sides which would not have seen black, because the player was not 'pulled down'. However they were certainly pulled back, wrapped up or bear hugged. This might be the new form of this tactic I fear. In this game Kerry had at least 6 such tackles, while Cavan had 5. All bar one were commmitted by a forward or midfielder. The classic momentum breaker.

[trileacman]

Interestingly, this game may also highlight a major flaw in the new rule. While there were 10 black card fouls, there were also a significant number of equally cynical fouls committed by both sides which would not have seen black, because the player was not 'pulled down'. However they were certainly pulled back, wrapped up or bear hugged. This might be the new form of this tactic I fear. In this game Kerry had at least 6 such tackles, while Cavan had 5. All bar one were commmitted by a forward or midfielder. The classic momentum breaker.

My fear as well. As a general rule forwards are not as adept at hiding their cynical tackles behind a thin veneer of "clumsy" play. Defenders such as McBearty, Gormley, Anthony Thompson, Ger Brennan, Shields and Aidan O'Mahoney, (Martin O'Connell) are extremely well practiced at it. Anthony Thompson in particular couldn't be any way near as clumsy as he appears on a football pitch.

Cavanagh through a mixture of last-chance desperation couldn't hide his cynicism as efficiently as most players. Meath in their heyday were particularly good at this, see the "mis-timed"John McDermott tackle on Peter Canavan or the trailing boot of Martin O'Connell.

[Whishtup]

Good stuff AZ.  Was just thinking today that an individual body should be compiling these stats so that we have fair and balanced opinions formed on the facts-then these jokers in RTE might think again before they single out one team of amateur sportsmen for national scorn.  Would be interested in how the Dublin Cork game faired out.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Great stuff AZ, exactly what was needed: cold rational analysis, instead of knee-jerk hysterical hyperbole. Maith thú.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

G AZ go out and do the garden or something, that stuff was hard enough to watch first time round

Translated: leave me with my poisonous prejudices for feck's sake AZ, quit these efforts to establish the facts!

[theticklemister]

Havent been on the board in 2 days so 25 pages in space of that time time has to be a record.

Looking forward to reading through them all in next few days lol.

[Declan]

Keep her lit Joe
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/brolly-reiterates-broadside-against-cynical-fouling-by-tyrone-1.1485542

[BennyHarp]

Keep her lit Joe
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/brolly-reiterates-broadside-against-cynical-fouling-by-tyrone-1.1485542

Tyrone's so called "win at all costs attitude" is a kin to Brolly's publicity at all costs attitude to punditry. Get the job done and who gives a feck who you upset along the way. Funnily enough, I'd have ad a bit more respect for Joe had he not hoored himself around every media outlet going in the past 48 hours. The last few days have proved that Sean "as a man" has a lot more class about him than Joe.

[Crete Boom]

I dunno..... Brolly has always been a shit stirring, disrespectful self publicist. To be fair to him his recent rant seemed genuine rather than orchestrated. But a bit late in the day for Joe to latch on to the high integrity platform.

I think he should go. But so also should O'Rourke. By his own admission he was a member of a high achieving but very cynical and often thuggish Mayo side. Very fond of the reverse elbow movement was our Colm as a defender approached him from behind after he won the ball. Always found it a bit rich to listen to O'Rourke lecturing about the evils of "pullin & draggin" when he was a past master of it himself ... particularly in the replayed AI final v Cork. Colm now is mostly an "I'll take the handy money" friendly old uncle type of analysist.

Spillane was (like O'Rourke) a brilliant footballer. But in his hey day he could track back in to his own defense and get on the ball like a Galvin or Dooher and he was a tremendous exponent in the olympic skills long before "puke football" Tyrone.  Leaving all that aside he is a very poor speaker and a faded sensationalist style analysist.

Point being... all  3 are past their sell by date and are a poor return for license payer's money. Get rid of Brolly. Get rid of all of them.

Somewhere...... a village is missing its idiot.

Well sure he is nearly right as we gave you heap of that side through good Mayo Breeding and what did you give us in return? A few rocky acres of land to scratch a living from

[yellowcard]

The question I would ask is....is Joe Brolly attempting to have some influence in dictating the outcome of future matches? These pre-conceived notions about Tyrone cynicism gradually seep their way into the consciousness of the public and referees are under pressure to come down harder on the perceived offenders. He done it last year by highlighting Mayo's cynicism in the run up to last years final since he clearly wanted Donegal to win the AI and he seems to be doing it again this year by labelling Tyrone in the same bracket due to his obvious dislike for his neighbouring county.   

Interesting to read Heaney's take on it in todays Irish News. I'm not sure if RTE deliberately portray Tyrone in such an unflattering manner but it is cetainly a lot easier to continuously do it unchecked when no representative from Tyrone are put forward to defend themselves. 

[sheamy]

The question I would ask is....is Joe Brolly attempting to have some influence in dictating the outcome of future matches? These pre-conceived notions about Tyrone cynicism gradually seep their way into the consciousness of the public and referees are under pressure to come down harder on the perceived offenders. He done it last year by highlighting Mayo's cynicism in the run up to last years final since he clearly wanted Donegal to win the AI and he seems to be doing it again this year by labelling Tyrone in the same bracket due to his obvious dislike for his neighbouring county.   

Honestly don't think so but he is, of course, leaving himself open to that allegation.

However, as Colm Keys states in today's Independent:

Leaving the personalised nature of his delivery aside, it's hard to disagree with some of the principles of what Joe Brolly said on Saturday night.

An environment where you are 'missing a trick' or naive in some way if you don't do cynicism has long been prevalent and has to be tackled with even greater urgency.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The 'controversial' delivery merely acts as fuel to keep the 'urgent' agenda alive. That's all he is doing.

[God14]

The question I would ask is....is Joe Brolly attempting to have some influence in dictating the outcome of future matches? These pre-conceived notions about Tyrone cynicism gradually seep their way into the consciousness of the public and referees are under pressure to come down harder on the perceived offenders. He done it last year by highlighting Mayo's cynicism in the run up to last years final since he clearly wanted Donegal to win the AI and he seems to be doing it again this year by labelling Tyrone in the same bracket due to his obvious dislike for his neighbouring county.   

Interesting to read Heaney's take on it in todays Irish News. I'm not sure if RTE deliberately portray Tyrone in such an unflattering manner but it is cetainly a lot easier to continuously do it unchecked when no representative from Tyrone are put forward to defend themselves.

The Tyrone stance with RTE is one I have agreed wholeheartedly with, however it is starting to interfere with how we are being portrayed by the national broadcaster. Even Ger Canning who is normally a sit on the fence type of fella, has started it & there's a very obvious anti Tyrone Bias during commentary.
Tyrone must appoint a spokesperson. Maybe Ciaran McLaughlin could be the man here, County Board chairman. Very articulate individual & as close to the panel & management team, without actually being on it.

We've come to expect this sort of sh*t from Brolly, but in what other sporting media platform would a player & a team be attacked in such manner? I really cant think of any. Not to mind amateur players? Does Joe not owe a respect to these fellas splling their guts for 70+mins?  Only in Ireland would that be tolerated. It was frankly disgusting viewing watching muscus, bile & hate spew from Joes face as he self combusted. Very very ugly & uncomfortable viewing. Yet in the same way many people watch these cruel beheadings on youtube etc carried out by crazed terrorists in the middle east, people are drawn into this and it attracts publicity & viewing figures
That's the real shame & blight on our game, coming hot on the heals of an equally outrageous attack by Joe on Paul Grimley. If RTE do not clean up its act, then the responsibility lies firmly at the door of the Croke Park & GAA HQ. Number 1 priority for them should be ensuring their games are correctly endorsed & publicised and that their players as amateurs cannot be subjected to such rigourous personal attacks.

[NaomhBridAbú]

The question I would ask is....is Joe Brolly attempting to have some influence in dictating the outcome of future matches? These pre-conceived notions about Tyrone cynicism gradually seep their way into the consciousness of the public and referees are under pressure to come down harder on the perceived offenders. He done it last year by highlighting Mayo's cynicism in the run up to last years final since he clearly wanted Donegal to win the AI and he seems to be doing it again this year by labelling Tyrone in the same bracket due to his obvious dislike for his neighbouring county.   

Interesting to read Heaney's take on it in todays Irish News. I'm not sure if RTE deliberately portray Tyrone in such an unflattering manner but it is cetainly a lot easier to continuously do it unchecked when no representative from Tyrone are put forward to defend themselves.

The Tyrone stance with RTE is one I have agreed wholeheartedly with, however it is starting to interfere with how we are being portrayed by the national broadcaster. Even Ger Canning who is normally a sit on the fence type of fella, has started it & there's a very obvious anti Tyrone Bias during commentary.
Tyrone must appoint a spokesperson. Maybe Ciaran McLaughlin could be the man here, County Board chairman. Very articulate individual & as close to the panel & management team, without actually being on it.

We've come to expect this sort of sh*t from Brolly, but in what other sporting media platform would a player & a team be attacked in such manner? I really cant think of any. Not to mind amateur players? Does Joe not owe a respect to these fellas splling their guts for 70+mins?  Only in Ireland would that be tolerated. It was frankly disgusting viewing watching muscus, bile & hate spew from Joes face as he self combusted. Very very ugly & uncomfortable viewing. Yet in the same way many people watch these cruel beheadings on youtube etc carried out by crazed terrorists in the middle east, people are drawn into this and it attracts publicity & viewing figures
That's the real shame & blight on our game, coming hot on the heals of an equally outrageous attack by Joe on Paul Grimley. If RTE do not clean up its act, then the responsibility lies firmly at the door of the Croke Park & GAA HQ. Number 1 priority for them should be ensuring their games are correctly endorsed & publicised and that their players as amateurs cannot be subjected to such rigourous personal attacks.

Unfortunately we get the media and politicians we deserve. We are the oxygen for brollys publicity. Now, right here on this board. yesterday on the BBC/UTV - it takes something big for one broadcaster to promote another free of charge which is exactly what BBC did yesterday - it was like them saying "watch the semi final on RTE" adn the only reason they did was because we have an appetite for it.

The sooner we start preparing for the Semi - emotionally and from a media perspective the better. Let Brolly go and f**k himself

[T Fearon]

I see in the Irish News today,Joseph's own mother is practically disowning him,saying she doesn't pay any heed to a word he says,ever! >:

[orangeman]

I see in the Irish News today,Joseph's own mother is practically disowning him,saying she doesn't pay any heed to a word he says,ever! >:

Isn't she from Tyrone ??


No surprise there then !