Time for Joe to go??

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

That's a different type of incident again Fear. That was straight out of the 1980s

Sickening, sickening sanctimony! 

[yellowcard]

If everyone is doing it, does it make right?

The fact is if it was the first minute or the last minute cavanagh would have done the exact same thing; even if it was punishable by red. Thats the mindset that has to be changed. If ye were a coach could ye look at a 14 year old in the eye after he pulled a wee lad down going in on goal? I feckin guarantee ye that ye might be happy inside but would ye let it known in public by shouting 'Well done Mickey, good man ye boy ye!' in front of all the parents and other coaches. What ye would all do is turn away, head down with a wry smile and say under yer breath ' feck mickey, happy days ya wee cert ye'  .Ye would he embarrassed to let everyone know of how people potray ye.

I can't read his mind but I would severely doubt that unless the clock was ticking down. Cavanagh would have been aware that he could only be given a yellow card and acted accordingly. The rule should state that a professional fould should be punished with a red card and a penalty and that would act as a sufficient detterent.

I've never heard as many puritanical sanctimonius individuals spout as much nonsense as they have done in the last few days. A lot of GAA people I have spoken to have voiced their disgust at Brollys agenda peddling and I think there is a too much of a vicious personalised nature to his arguments over the last few years. The whole of last winter was spent debating the merit of rule changes and ways to clean up the game. Is this going to become an annual recurring theme peddled by certain salaried pundits in order to keep their name in lights throughout the year? I would imagine that this outburst has done wonders for Joes profile whilst that Cavanagh tackle will probably now define his career.

Has the game become more 'cynical' in the last few years, I would say not necessarily. Its largely due to the increasing media coverage and the need for media outlets to create talking points that exist outside the actual match analysis. In the same way that premiership soccer has been sensationalised into a soap opera dominated by moral outrages over racism, bites, dives, spitting etc  that give the likes of Sky and the rags the talking points required to feed into public hysteria. Do we really want to head down that route?

[loughshore horse]

I'm told that BBC on Saturday was very good with McGeeney in particular giving good analysis. I watched the BBC yesterday and thought Enda McGinley was very good also for a guy with little experience. Maybe the fact that McGeeney and McGinley are both fresh from county set-ups leaves them in a much better position to comment on these games than the much older men on RTE. I will be watching BBC from now on when not at the games.

Maybe for analysis but Jesus the commentary is crap.

Did you see the state of Sidebottom and McConville?

Not a shirt in either house it seems. A pair of scruffy pricks

[Syferus]

It's funny to see the media eulogise Roscommon's minor victory yesterday and praise them for closing out the game. They did this by packing their defence and cynically fouling. Ironically the sending off was for 2 yellows, he gave the 2nd yellow for a rugby tackle but it was very harsh, it was just an awkward attempt at playing the ball from behind. Wonder was Brolly's comments in the ref's head?

BTW it was all within the framework of the rules and I have no issue with it but just disappointed to see it at minor level.

Arrah c'mere. Kildare committed the majority of dirty fouls, striking Daly at least two times and doing everything save knee-capping Harney. Kildare would have been just as willing to pull down a Ros man, if they'd been able to get a hand on him, that is! As it stands it's hard to see a way not for the game to have a healthy dose of cynicism, it's simply about trying to police it enough that it isn't an open sore.

O'Rourke made a last-man tackle ala Sean Cavanagh in the first half for his first yellow but he was silly to attempt a tackle from behind in midfield while on a yellow. Compton picked up a yellow later on but took the smart option every time after and avoided any risky tackles that would have given the referee an opportunity to send him off. I had no complaints about O'Rourke getting the line.

[AZOffaly]

I think there are more of the kind of tackles I don't like. It's systematic at this stage. We used to call it 'lazy tackles', now it's clever and allows you to get set up defensively. That is certainly more prevalent today than before.

As for the Cavanagh incident, a wild goose chase initiated by Joe Brolly to gain attention for his agenda against either Tyrone or hopefully cynical fouling. However in personalising it and focussing on the high profile goal scoring opportunity incident, he's actually taking the focus off the more widespread problem.

And I've said enough on it now, as I'm sure most people reading these threads would agree!!

[Mike Sheehy]

It's funny to see the media eulogise Roscommon's minor victory yesterday and praise them for closing out the game. They did this by packing their defence and cynically fouling. Ironically the sending off was for 2 yellows, he gave the 2nd yellow for a rugby tackle but it was very harsh, it was just an awkward attempt at playing the ball from behind. Wonder was Brolly's comments in the ref's head?

BTW it was all within the framework of the rules and I have no issue with it but just disappointed to see it at minor level.

Well, you seemed to have a great laugh at the Kerry minors loss so I guess what goes around comes around. Karma is a bitch isn't it.

[Dinny Breen]

It's funny to see the media eulogise Roscommon's minor victory yesterday and praise them for closing out the game. They did this by packing their defence and cynically fouling. Ironically the sending off was for 2 yellows, he gave the 2nd yellow for a rugby tackle but it was very harsh, it was just an awkward attempt at playing the ball from behind. Wonder was Brolly's comments in the ref's head?

BTW it was all within the framework of the rules and I have no issue with it but just disappointed to see it at minor level.

Arrah c'mere. Kildare committed the majority of dirty fouls, striking Daly at least two times and doing everything save knee-capping Harney. Kildare would have been just as willing to pull down a Ros man, if they'd been able to get a hand on him, that is! As it stands it's hard to see a way not for the game to have a healthy dose of cynicism, it's simply about trying to police it enough that it isn't an open sore.

O'Rourke made a last-man tackle ala Sean Cavanagh in the first half for his first yellow but he was silly to attempt a tackle from behind in midfield while on a yellow. Compton picked up a yellow later on but took the smart option every time after and avoided any risky tackles that would have given the referee an opportunity to send him off. I had no complaints about O'Rourke getting the line.

Syferus your missing the point, the media have eulogised your minors yet on the other hand they are demonising cynical play. Either they take a stand or not.

As already stated I have no issue with Roscommon's approach, it was a pretty clean game with the odd sly dig from both sides.

[Mrs mills]

Ten years from now might we be looking at a different game with team fouls and a 20m free being awarded after a limit has been reached?

[God14]

I was at a club U12 game last night, first chance I've had this year, and I was speaking to some parents of our players. When the issue of Tyrone and Brolly came up, one father said that Brollys behaviour after the match was much more of a bad influence to young players than anything Sean Cavanagh done in the match before and that yes his rugby-style tackle was not a sporting one but Joes rant gives an impression to children that its all right to throw tantrums when things don't go your way and threaten people who don't agree with you or try to calm you down. He went on to say that if a player on the St. Brigids Belfast U12 team threw a strop like that in a game at the referee or an opponent, what authority does Brolly have to discipline him? Furthermore he was right in saying that if he behaved like that in a game his son was playing in, he'd be told by our club that he would not be welcomed back to games until he learned to control himself and that if any of our youth team coaches did something similar they would be suspended by the club for bringing them into disrepute. Certainly food for thought.

Good post that, offers another side to the story to consider. I would not disagree with any of it.

[deiseach]

I was at a club U12 game last night, first chance I've had this year, and I was speaking to some parents of our players. When the issue of Tyrone and Brolly came up, one father said that Brollys behaviour after the match was much more of a bad influence to young players than anything Sean Cavanagh done in the match before and that yes his rugby-style tackle was not a sporting one but Joes rant gives an impression to children that its all right to throw tantrums when things don't go your way and threaten people who don't agree with you or try to calm you down. He went on to say that if a player on the St. Brigids Belfast U12 team threw a strop like that in a game at the referee or an opponent, what authority does Brolly have to discipline him? Furthermore he was right in saying that if he behaved like that in a game his son was playing in, he'd be told by our club that he would not be welcomed back to games until he learned to control himself and that if any of our youth team coaches did something similar they would be suspended by the club for bringing them into disrepute. Certainly food for thought.

Ah come on. Let's assume Brolly was genuinely angry. As it happens, I don't believe that it was anything other than an act. However, this idea that an adult getting angry on the telly is a bad example to children is wrong. There was nothing inarticulate or out of control about Brolly's rant and if a coach got suspended for that then the law would be an ass, especially when you consider how often close clubs ranks around an ape who is downright violent. You've made some very good points about the holes in Brolly's stance, but this one is a stretch at best.

[BennyHarp]

I was at a club U12 game last night, first chance I've had this year, and I was speaking to some parents of our players. When the issue of Tyrone and Brolly came up, one father said that Brollys behaviour after the match was much more of a bad influence to young players than anything Sean Cavanagh done in the match before and that yes his rugby-style tackle was not a sporting one but Joes rant gives an impression to children that its all right to throw tantrums when things don't go your way and threaten people who don't agree with you or try to calm you down. He went on to say that if a player on the St. Brigids Belfast U12 team threw a strop like that in a game at the referee or an opponent, what authority does Brolly have to discipline him? Furthermore he was right in saying that if he behaved like that in a game his son was playing in, he'd be told by our club that he would not be welcomed back to games until he learned to control himself and that if any of our youth team coaches did something similar they would be suspended by the club for bringing them into disrepute. Certainly food for thought.

Ah come on. Let's assume Brolly was genuinely angry. As it happens, I don't believe that it was anything other than an act. However, this idea that an adult getting angry on the telly is a bad example to children is wrong. There was nothing inarticulate or out of control about Brolly's rant and if a coach got suspended for that then the law would be an ass, especially when you consider how often close clubs ranks around an ape who is downright violent. You've made some very good points about the holes in Brolly's stance, but this one is a stretch at best.

What about Brolly's assertion that he would never give a jersey to a kid again if he committed a foul like that? I know as a parent there would be questions asked in the club if someone with that attitude was in charge of the kids! I can just see him, towering over a small boy, saliva dripping from his mouth bellowing his sanctimonious nonsense and sending the kid home with his tail between his legs, never to play Gaelic football again - lesson taught and we'll all clap Joe on the back for his noble stance against cynicism!

[orangeman]

I'd have done exactly what Cavanagh did, admits Hughes

Tuesday, August 06, 2013

Darren Hughes has admitted he would have committed the same rugby tackle as Seán Cavanagh if it meant Monaghan reaching an All-Ireland semi-final.

By Orla Bannon
However, Hughes launched a stinging attack on referee Cormac Reilly for his handling of the ill-tempered quarter-final at Croke Park on Saturday night.

Hughes had hard hitting words for the Meath officials and claimed he was incorrectly booked in the 17th minute after he cleanly dispossessed Cavanagh.

Blasted Hughes: "I told him [Reilly] to wait 10 seconds and look at the screen, but he didn't, maybe they are not allowed to, but I knew I'd got the ball," said Hughes.

"It shouldn't have affected me, but Cavanagh got three points off me after it and I am disappointed about that.

"It did frustrate me and I did have a bit of a vendetta towards the referee after that. We have had a falling out before but sure, he's making bad decisions a lifetime, he's not going to stop now."

Reilly applied the rules correctly in issuing a yellow card to Cavanagh after his rugby-style tackle denied Conor McManus a goal-scoring opportunity in the 49th minute.

Hughes refused to blame Cavanagh for taking down his team-mate.

"It was a blatant goal opportunity and next year that is a man (sent) off but there is no point whinging about it.

"If I was in Seán Cavanagh's position I'd have done the exact same thing myself. It is nothing against him.

"It's just disappointing for us we didn't get the goal but sure, who is to say we'd have won it anyway even if we'd got the goal."

Hughes felt there were worse incidents taking place on the field than the Cavanagh tackle which provoked a sensational outburst from RTÉ pundit Joe Brolly.

"I don't know what happened with about 15 minutes to go but me and Drew Wylie went on a couple of one-twos and I got cleaned out of it.

"I am still hazy about it. Next thing I looked up and our doctor is on beside me and Tyrone are away up the field. I don't know what happened but I knew by the crowd's reaction it wasn't the right decision.

"We were in a great position but decisions went against us at crucial times. If you had told us in January we'd have played in three finals, won promotion and won an Ulster title I'd have bit your hand off, but that is a sickening defeat."
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

[Gabriel_Hurl]

[brokencrossbar1]

I haven't read through today's instalments as I have real things to be doing but the one thing that has struck me about the whole thing, and it may be what has angered Joe the most, is that a casual acceptance of cheating has developed in our games.  I think the Cavanagh incident was the spark that lit the tinderbox for Joe but the whole attitude to fair play has been lost.  It's like 2 lads going at it in the street.  Men would stand toe to toe and have a fair dig, a coward would go to shake hands and throw sand in the other guys face.  There is no honour in that as there is no honour in the way the game is developing.  Maybe it is a reflection on the greater society or simply Tyrone people but the notion that we do what we can, by fair means or foul, has taken precedence in many aspects of the world and f**k you Jack! I coach kids and I coach adults and the one thing I try to instil in them is that it is important to win but it is more important to win with pride and lose with dignity.  You get a box, you give a box, you shake hands and you walk off the field.  I'm sorry but I think in some places that has been lost.

[deiseach]

What about Brolly's assertion that he would never give a jersey to a kid again if he committed a foul like that? I know as a parent there would be questions asked in the club if someone with that attitude was in charge of the kids! I can just see him, towering over a small boy, saliva dripping from his mouth bellowing his sanctimonious nonsense and sending the kid home with his tail between his legs, never to play Gaelic football again - lesson taught and we'll all clap Joe on the back for his noble stance against cynicism!

I would not expect an adult to talk to a child like Brolly did the other night, but I'd like to think pundits on the Sunday Game are not obliged to measure their opinions as if they were talking to a child.

The one part of his rant that I'm in 100% agreement is that juvenile teams should not be taught to be cynical. I remember reading a story about Pat Rafter which has always stuck with me. He was obviously head-and-shoulders above his peers at tennis, so when his father went to see him play competitively for the first time he was looking forward to bursting with pride. Instead he saw a foul-mouthed, petulant spoilt brat, sledging opponents and officials with abandon. Rafter père hauled him off the court in front of everyone and told his son in no uncertain terms that if he didn't learn to play in a sporting manner then he'd never pick up a tennis racket again. I thought this was a marvellous tribute to a sporting mentor who knew that there's more to sport than just winning. I'm beginning to think I may be out of step with people on that one.