Laois v Donegal

[Syferus]

Arrah lads. No need to fight. We can all agree the Hyde is a far more befitting venue for the All-Ireland champions.

[joemamas]

Do any Donegal posters know if the reports that Donegal were training flat out all last week is true or a load of BS.

If they were, does it imply that deep down their real focus was down the line. As has been said before, a lot of the players seemed so lethargic/flatfooted.

Jim McGuinness was given tremendous credit for what he achieved, most of it deserved (Brolly used to sicken my hole, when he was putting him up there as the best manager of all time) The next week/month will truly tell us if he is at that level.

[J70]

Do any Donegal posters know if the reports that Donegal were training flat out all last week is true or a load of BS.

If they were, does it imply that deep down their real focus was down the line. As has been said before, a lot of the players seemed so lethargic/flatfooted.

Jim McGuinness was given tremendous credit for what he achieved, most of it deserved (Brolly used to sicken my hole, when he was putting him up there as the best manager of all time) The next week/month will truly tell us if he is at that level.

I only know what I've read on the internet. I would be very surprised if it was the case, however, that they'd done very heavy training last week. Its one thing doing it in the week before the Dublin league game when the potential short-term cost is minimal. Ulster final is totally different and I'd be shocked if McGuinness, who constantly preaches one game at a time, would have been so dismissive of the Monaghan challenge (even those of us here were urging caution amid the chorus of Monaghan dismissal FFS!). If it was the case, then you're right, it was a big mistake and he's got a bit of explaining to do.

That said, I think it would be idiotic to dismiss McGuinness as average if this year ends badly (fair enough, there was always going to be some form of backlash/reassessment when things went wrong, but it has to be reasonable). He's only in his third year of senior football. He's already won two provincial titles and an AI with a team of mostly perceived has beens/never were/ never will bes. Before that he took Donegal to within a missed penalty of the AI U-21 title. His club NEVER won a county title prior to him running things. One bad month, along with injuries, the inevitable loss of hunger and (this week) a very difficult schedule does not negate his outstanding achievements to date. Hype such as his ranking among the "best managers of all time" is an exercise for ten years down the line. Brolly basically doesn't rate the Donegal squad, at least not among the top tier. For him, its all McGuinness, hence the hyperbole in the light of what he has achieved. Many here would seem to agree, at least with the squad part of the equation!

[yellowcard]

Do any Donegal posters know if the reports that Donegal were training flat out all last week is true or a load of BS.

If they were, does it imply that deep down their real focus was down the line. As has been said before, a lot of the players seemed so lethargic/flatfooted.

Jim McGuinness was given tremendous credit for what he achieved, most of it deserved (Brolly used to sicken my hole, when he was putting him up there as the best manager of all time) The next week/month will truly tell us if he is at that level.

I'm not from Donegal but the story I've heard from several people has been that Donegal were doing savage training at the beginning of last week. In either case judging by Jimmy's interview after the game and the look of bemusement on his face during the match I genuinely think he was looking at the AI quarter final onwards and underestimated Monaghan. He may be able to control a lot of performance variables but the one area that he can't legislate for is hunger when the players step onto the field. I think ultimately that is what let them down.

[ck]

Carrick is a very poor venue choice. It's much closer to Donegal than Laois. Surely Mullingar, Croke park or even Longford would have been fairer.

Donegal by 5 points.

Distance from Carrick on Shannon

Donegal Town - 118 km
Letterkenny - 165 km
Gweedore - 191 km
Carndonagh - 220 km

Portlaoise - 150 km
Durrow - 173 km
Mountmellick - 140 km

Much closer??

Ah sure you can pull out a pile of towns to make a point if you want. The fact is that the closest part of Donegal to Carrick is much closer than the closest part of Laois. Longford or Roscommon would have been a much fairer venue for both counties!

Don't be an idiot. Donegal is a big county. Except for the relatively tiny area to the south of Donegal Town, the rest of the county is at a similar or further distance from Carrick on Shannon as the entire county of Laois. That the closest point is closer than Laois' closest point is irrelevant, at least in any sensible conversation.
Sure if you moved it somewhere else, Laois' closest point might be closer than Donegal's closest point!

Chill out for gods sake, those monaghan lads fairly rattled your cage. Carrick is closer to Donegal, it's a small ground and hardly a great place to attract neutrals. Argue away with yourself if you want but these are the facts.

[yellowcard]

Do any Donegal posters know if the reports that Donegal were training flat out all last week is true or a load of BS.

If they were, does it imply that deep down their real focus was down the line. As has been said before, a lot of the players seemed so lethargic/flatfooted.

Jim McGuinness was given tremendous credit for what he achieved, most of it deserved (Brolly used to sicken my hole, when he was putting him up there as the best manager of all time) The next week/month will truly tell us if he is at that level.

I only know what I've read on the internet. I would be very surprised if it was the case, however, that they'd done very heavy training last week. Its one thing doing it in the week before the Dublin league game when the potential short-term cost is minimal. Ulster final is totally different and I'd be shocked if McGuinness, who constantly preaches one game at a time, would have been so dismissive of the Monaghan challenge (even those of us here were urging caution amid the chorus of Monaghan dismissal FFS!). If it was the case, then you're right, it was a big mistake and he's got a bit of explaining to do.

That said, I think it would be idiotic to dismiss McGuinness as average if this year ends badly (fair enough, there was always going to be some form of backlash/reassessment when things went wrong, but it has to be reasonable). He's only in his third year of senior football. He's already won two provincial titles and an AI with a team of mostly perceived has beens/never were/ never will bes. Before that he took Donegal to within a missed penalty of the AI U-21 title. His club NEVER won a county title prior to him running things. One bad month, along with injuries, the inevitable loss of hunger and (this week) a very difficult schedule does not negate his outstanding achievements to date. Hype such as his ranking among the "best managers of all time" is an exercise for ten years down the line. Brolly basically doesn't rate the Donegal squad, at least not among the top tier. For him, its all McGuinness, hence the hyperbole in the light of what he has achieved. Many here would seem to agree, at least with the squad part of the equation!

I don't think anyone will ever dismiss McGuinness as average, imo he accomplished the greatest managerial feat in my lifetime by leading Donegal to an AI title considering where they started from. However it may well be the case that McGuinness' intense managerial style is not sustainable for longer periods. His gameplan requires savage intensity and workrate and when one or two players bodies start breaking down and subconsciously some players begin to wonder can they go through the wall again having already achieved the holy grail, then success becomes harder to achieve. Monaghan will do well to replicate the intensity they played Sunday's match with. On Sunday's performance I don't think Dublin would have beaten them.

Also gaelic football is constantly evolving and what is today's blueprint for success is tomorrows fish and chip paper. Mickey Harte was deemed a revolutionary about 10 years ago but has struggled to keep pace in recent years and the game will change again soon as other counties figure out another new way of being successful. If for instance Mickey Harte won another AI which I believe he craves, I believe it would make him the greatest manager of all time (and I know Mick O'Dwyer was more successful) ahead of Sean Boylan and Mick O'Dwyer.

In saying all that I'm just after backing Donegal to win the AI at 9/1.

I wouldn't be writing Donegals obituary just yet and adversity may well bring out the best in them this week.

[ck]

Do any Donegal posters know if the reports that Donegal were training flat out all last week is true or a load of BS.

If they were, does it imply that deep down their real focus was down the line. As has been said before, a lot of the players seemed so lethargic/flatfooted.

Jim McGuinness was given tremendous credit for what he achieved, most of it deserved (Brolly used to sicken my hole, when he was putting him up there as the best manager of all time) The next week/month will truly tell us if he is at that level.

I only know what I've read on the internet. I would be very surprised if it was the case, however, that they'd done very heavy training last week. Its one thing doing it in the week before the Dublin league game when the potential short-term cost is minimal. Ulster final is totally different and I'd be shocked if McGuinness, who constantly preaches one game at a time, would have been so dismissive of the Monaghan challenge (even those of us here were urging caution amid the chorus of Monaghan dismissal FFS!). If it was the case, then you're right, it was a big mistake and he's got a bit of explaining to do.

That said, I think it would be idiotic to dismiss McGuinness as average if this year ends badly (fair enough, there was always going to be some form of backlash/reassessment when things went wrong, but it has to be reasonable). He's only in his third year of senior football. He's already won two provincial titles and an AI with a team of mostly perceived has beens/never were/ never will bes. Before that he took Donegal to within a missed penalty of the AI U-21 title. His club NEVER won a county title prior to him running things. One bad month, along with injuries, the inevitable loss of hunger and (this week) a very difficult schedule does not negate his outstanding achievements to date. Hype such as his ranking among the "best managers of all time" is an exercise for ten years down the line. Brolly basically doesn't rate the Donegal squad, at least not among the top tier. For him, its all McGuinness, hence the hyperbole in the light of what he has achieved. Many here would seem to agree, at least with the squad part of the equation!

Nobody called McGuinness average, where did you get that? He's a top manager but he was beaten last Sunday on many fronts by what many would regard as a non top tier team. His halo has slipped and if its true that they trained heavy a week before then he's not practising what he preaches. If he looses to Laois wait till you hear the stories... All his time at Celtic, jimmy is bigger than the team, it's hard to retain an All Ireland etc etc I for one admire Jimmy cos I'm with Brolly, apart for 3 or 4 players they are an average enough oul bunch with nothing on the bench. You can train the shite outa lads but can that last? Can the bodies and hunger survive it? Time will tell

[J70]

Carrick is a very poor venue choice. It's much closer to Donegal than Laois. Surely Mullingar, Croke park or even Longford would have been fairer.

Donegal by 5 points.

Distance from Carrick on Shannon

Donegal Town - 118 km
Letterkenny - 165 km
Gweedore - 191 km
Carndonagh - 220 km

Portlaoise - 150 km
Durrow - 173 km
Mountmellick - 140 km

Much closer??

Ah sure you can pull out a pile of towns to make a point if you want. The fact is that the closest part of Donegal to Carrick is much closer than the closest part of Laois. Longford or Roscommon would have been a much fairer venue for both counties!

Don't be an idiot. Donegal is a big county. Except for the relatively tiny area to the south of Donegal Town, the rest of the county is at a similar or further distance from Carrick on Shannon as the entire county of Laois. That the closest point is closer than Laois' closest point is irrelevant, at least in any sensible conversation.
Sure if you moved it somewhere else, Laois' closest point might be closer than Donegal's closest point!

Chill out for gods sake, those monaghan lads fairly rattled your cage. Carrick is closer to Donegal, it's a small ground and hardly a great place to attract neutrals. Argue away with yourself if you want but these are the facts.

Look, I've no issue with you on the merits of the ground itself or attraction of the location for neutrals (if you deem that important). But your original point was about travel distance. Rejecting the location because its closer to one corner of Donegal is ridiculously simplistic and DOESN'T reflect the facts about Carrick's relative convenience for each county as a whole. But YOU go ahead and ignore that bleeding obvious fact.

[BluestackBoy]

Donegal's biggest problem at the moment is the fact that up to 6 key players are carrying injuries & the bench is not strong enough to compensate. The system that Donegal uses requires high intensity from all 15 players and we just don't have the personnel to carry that out at the moment.

[J70]

Do any Donegal posters know if the reports that Donegal were training flat out all last week is true or a load of BS.

If they were, does it imply that deep down their real focus was down the line. As has been said before, a lot of the players seemed so lethargic/flatfooted.

Jim McGuinness was given tremendous credit for what he achieved, most of it deserved (Brolly used to sicken my hole, when he was putting him up there as the best manager of all time) The next week/month will truly tell us if he is at that level.

I only know what I've read on the internet. I would be very surprised if it was the case, however, that they'd done very heavy training last week. Its one thing doing it in the week before the Dublin league game when the potential short-term cost is minimal. Ulster final is totally different and I'd be shocked if McGuinness, who constantly preaches one game at a time, would have been so dismissive of the Monaghan challenge (even those of us here were urging caution amid the chorus of Monaghan dismissal FFS!). If it was the case, then you're right, it was a big mistake and he's got a bit of explaining to do.

That said, I think it would be idiotic to dismiss McGuinness as average if this year ends badly (fair enough, there was always going to be some form of backlash/reassessment when things went wrong, but it has to be reasonable). He's only in his third year of senior football. He's already won two provincial titles and an AI with a team of mostly perceived has beens/never were/ never will bes. Before that he took Donegal to within a missed penalty of the AI U-21 title. His club NEVER won a county title prior to him running things. One bad month, along with injuries, the inevitable loss of hunger and (this week) a very difficult schedule does not negate his outstanding achievements to date. Hype such as his ranking among the "best managers of all time" is an exercise for ten years down the line. Brolly basically doesn't rate the Donegal squad, at least not among the top tier. For him, its all McGuinness, hence the hyperbole in the light of what he has achieved. Many here would seem to agree, at least with the squad part of the equation!

Nobody called McGuinness average, where did you get that? He's a top manager but he was beaten last Sunday on many fronts by what many would regard as a non top tier team. His halo has slipped and if its true that they trained heavy a week before then he's not practising what he preaches. If he looses to Laois wait till you hear the stories... All his time at Celtic, jimmy is bigger than the team, it's hard to retain an All Ireland etc etc I for one admire Jimmy cos I'm with Brolly, apart for 3 or 4 players they are an average enough oul bunch with nothing on the bench. You can train the shite outa lads but can that last? Can the bodies and hunger survive it? Time will tell

Yes, fair enough - the original poster was talking about reassessing him according to Brolly's "best manager ever" hype! I misinterpreted it as "top level", with the implication being if not top-level, then average.

Think people overdid the Celtic thing though. Don't other managers work full-time? He's not over there Monday-Friday.

[J70]

Donegal's biggest problem at the moment is the fact that up to 6 key players are carrying injuries & the bench is not strong enough to compensate. The system that Donegal uses requires high intensity from all 15 players and we just don't have the personnel to carry that out at the moment.

McFadden's sleepless nights too! 

[Dont Matter]

Jimmy knew motivation was needed for his players and the only way to regain that was by losing a match.
If they had won they would have been playing Tyrone or Cork or one of those big guns in the quarter final, now they will be playing one of Dublin, Kerry or Mayo. No real difference. They're still at the same stage as they would have been with an Ulster title but now the players have got a wake up call and will have motivation to prove those that are writing them off wrong.
None of Dublin/Kerry/Mayo want them in the draw.

[yellowcard]

Jimmy knew motivation was needed for his players and the only way to regain that was by losing a match.
If they had won they would have been playing Tyrone or Cork or one of those big guns in the quarter final, now they will be playing one of Dublin, Kerry or Mayo. No real difference. They're still at the same stage as they would have been with an Ulster title but now the players have got a wake up call and will have motivation to prove those that are writing them off wrong.
None of Dublin/Kerry/Mayo want them in the draw.

I believe they would account for Kerry easily. I think they would also beat Dublin but Mayo would be another slugfest war of attrition type game that may not suit Donegal. I think they are the one team that could unhinge them at the qf stage. Thats all presuming they get past Laois which could be tricky because of the timing.

[Mourne Rover]

Jimmy knew motivation was needed for his players and the only way to regain that was by losing a match.
If they had won they would have been playing Tyrone or Cork or one of those big guns in the quarter final, now they will be playing one of Dublin, Kerry or Mayo. No real difference. They're still at the same stage as they would have been with an Ulster title but now the players have got a wake up call and will have motivation to prove those that are writing them off wrong.
None of Dublin/Kerry/Mayo want them in the draw.

Donegal are clearly not at the same stage as they would have been with an Ulster title. Instead of a two week break, they have to get through an extra game just six days after losing a provincial final. Only Down have managed this in the 12 years since the qualifiers were introduced.

The best motivation for Donegal would have been retaining the Anglo Celt after a scare against Monaghan, which would also have meant avoiding other provincial champions in the quarter finals. They should still be capable of beating Laois, but they have made life much more difficult for themselves and the bookies have pushed them out to 9/1 for Sam as a result.

[muppet]

Arrah lads. No need to fight. We can all agree the Hyde is a far more befitting venue for the All-Ireland champions.

Why don't you invite the Orange Lodge to march in the Hyde every Saturday evening?

Everyone wins!