Division 2A turning into a mess

[Lone Shark]

I thought the messing over Ken Casey was done and dusted myself - Longford got the points, scoring difference unaffected, which pretty much seemed fair. Then today I read this:

OFFALY'S fielding of an illegal player in their league match against Longford may have unforeseen repercussions and leave the GAA with a fixtures nightmare.

The Offaly footballers forfeited a league point from the drawn Division 2A clash after it was ruled that Ken Casey - who had been sent off in an U21 match - was ineligible to play.

At the time, there was much debate about whether the match score should stand and its affect on the scoring differentials, which are being used to separate teams that finish on the same points in the league standings.

Difference

The GAA's management committee have now ruled that if teams in Division 2A finish level, the scoring difference system will not be used to separate them. Instead, they must face each other in a play-off.

This looks set to impact on deciding relegation places next season, but if it also comes into play in deciding the top two positions, it could delay the Division 2 semi-finals.

Has anyone actually thought this out? Being realistic, Leitrim will beat London. If we beat Ros, and Monaghan beat Leitrim, that means ourselves, Roscommon, Leitrim and the winners of Longford vs Clare will all be on 8 points. How on earth do people think this is going to get resolved in the next few weeks? I'm hoping this is just the Indo getting it wrong, because this has the makings of a serious mess.

[David McKeown]

I dont want to bring it up again but when Tyrone lost the points in the McKenna cup there scoring differential was left unaffected with little complaint so the precendence is there within the GAA to not change the scoring the differentials.  Also you cant really go changing the rules mid competition like this so I can't see playoffs being required

[Shamrock Shore]

I agree LS. I got a txt from Laureleye and I thought he was out by a few days on the April fool thingy.

A complete and utter Clusterfuck in my opinion.

The scenario you paint is very very likely. No way should the short straw boys here end up in The Cooper Cup.

[Lone Shark]

I really don't get why this is necessary. Offaly played an illegal player, we deserved to lose the point, but equally after a few cheeky remarks Longford then conceded that scoring difference should remain untouched. If Longford, Offaly and Central council all feel justice has been done, why is this an issue?

I don't want to go pointing fingers, but unless it was a vested Clare/Roscommon interest, why would this have been brought up? Having to fit in one extra game messed things up enough, who could possibly have wanted this quagmire?

[LaurelEye]

I really don't get why this is necessary. Offaly played an illegal player, we deserved to lose the point, but equally after a few cheeky remarks Longford then conceded that scoring difference should remain untouched. If Longford, Offaly and Central council all feel justice has been done, why is this an issue?

I don't want to go pointing fingers, but unless it was a vested Clare/Roscommon interest, why would this have been brought up? Having to fit in one extra game messed things up enough, who could possibly have wanted this quagmire?

Ah shur, all yis have to do is to lose to Roscommon and everything will be fine and dandy (until Leitrim beat Monaghan and force a play-off with the Sheepshaggersstealers for promotion)

Seriously, this is buck-stupid. I spotted the article on the Longford Hoganstand messageboard this morning and texted SS. The main "beneficiaries" would be Roscommon - assuming yis beat them, which yis should. If there are four teams tied on 8 points, then it will require at least another two weeks of tie breaks (1 team winning through to Division 2, and 1 going down to Division 4), which take us up to the 29th. If they intend to play League semi-finals and finals, that would be another two weeks taking you up to May 13th, when Longford take on Westmeath in the Leinster Championship.

(And in case anyone thinks that being from Longford is colouring my reaction, unless our County team pull their fingers out over the next eleven days this f**k-up won't concern us in the slightest because we wouldn't have a hope of beating Clare on last Sunday's performance )

[Bord na Mona man]

If Longford's cheeky mention of scoring difference was the catalyst for this move, then it looks to have backfired on them.
Now Clare have something to play for against Longford on the last day.
Clare's scoring difference was so massively inferior that they were virtually consigned to Div 4, but now a win over Longford would put them in a play off under the new ruling.

[LaurelEye]

If Longford's cheeky mention of scoring difference was the catalyst for this move, then it looks to have backfired on them.

I doubt if a chance remark by some ludramán that went no further than a footnote in a newspaper article is the cause of it. Offaly are hardly beneficiaries of the move either, given their own points difference. And Leitrim, who were more or less assured of Division 3 at a minimum, are back in danger of Division 4. The main winners would be Roscommon, who couldn't have afforded to lose in O'Connor Park.

Now Clare have something to play for against Longford on the last day.
Clare's scoring difference was so massively inferior that they were virtually consigned to Div 4, but now a win over Longford would put them in a play off under the new ruling.

They have something to play for anyway. If they beat Longford and Roscommon beat Offaly, then they're in Division 3 next year regardless of the points difference.

[Bord na Mona man]

Were there to be a 4 way tie on 8 points, the simplest and fairest solution is as follows:
Allow the team with the best scoring difference (i.e 2nd in table) into Div 2 and the league semi finals etc.
The remaining 3 teams should go into Div 3, with no play offs.
That would leave you with a 9 team Division 3 and 7 team Div 4.
Next year promote 2 Division 4 teams and relegate 3 Division 3 teams.

[Bord na Mona man]

If Longford's cheeky mention of scoring difference was the catalyst for this move, then it looks to have backfired on them.

I doubt if a chance remark by some ludramán that went no further than a footnote in a newspaper article is the cause of it. Offaly are hardly beneficiaries of the move either, given their own points difference. And Leitrim, who were more or less assured of Division 3 at a minimum, are back in danger of Division 4. The main winners would be Roscommon, who couldn't have afforded to lose in O'Connor Park.

Now Clare have something to play for against Longford on the last day.
Clare's scoring difference was so massively inferior that they were virtually consigned to Div 4, but now a win over Longford would put them in a play off under the new ruling.

They have something to play for anyway. If they beat Longford and Roscommon beat Offaly, then they're in Division 3 next year regardless of the points difference.

Offaly would be indirect beneficiaries, in that now we won't face a Roscommon team battling for their lives in Tullamore.

Clare now know that a win will guarantee them an equal fighting chance of survival, whereas previously their destination was out of their hands.

[AhFeckRef]

Is there any official line on this scoring average debate from GAA HQ. Or is this just one of the papers getting it completely wrong. I don't see anything about it on gaa.ie

[LaurelEye]

Is there any official line on this scoring average debate from GAA HQ. Or is this just one of the papers getting it completely wrong. I don't see anything about it on gaa.ie

Don't see anything about it in the Irish Times or on the main Hoganstand page either.

It would also open another few cans of worms - what about teams in 1A, 1B or 2B losing out on points difference without the possibility of a play-off?

[LaurelEye]

They have something to play for anyway. If they beat Longford and Roscommon beat Offaly, then they're in Division 3 next year regardless of the points difference.

Offaly would be indirect beneficiaries, in that now we won't face a Roscommon team battling for their lives in Tullamore.

True, but a win would put them on 10 points, giving them a very good chance of Division 2 football even if this proposal goes ahead. At worst they would have a rematch against Leitrim.

[Lone Shark]

If Longford's cheeky mention of scoring difference was the catalyst for this move, then it looks to have backfired on them.

I doubt if a chance remark by some ludramán that went no further than a footnote in a newspaper article is the cause of it. Offaly are hardly beneficiaries of the move either, given their own points difference. And Leitrim, who were more or less assured of Division 3 at a minimum, are back in danger of Division 4. The main winners would be Roscommon, who couldn't have afforded to lose in O'Connor Park.

The fact remains that if it was said (I don't think anyone could take the Indo's word as Gospel) it wasn't said to a journalist, it was said in a meeting. I do know that the Offaly county board had to go to the trouble of digging up precedent as well to rebut the argument, so it wasn't just a flippant throwaway remark.

Regarding the nine teams in division 3 next year, that would work, but it makes a mess up of the qualifiers this year. Even as things stand it's a ticking time bomb because the three qualifier rounds take place on successive weekends - if one of the supposedly Tommy Murphy teams was to upset the apple cart and get to a provincial final it would mess things up enough massively - the system doesn't allow for any kind of flexibility.

I definitely think that if this is the case Offaly lose out - Roscommon would have been going all out either way, however it makes a huge difference to Longford - as was pointed out, their home game with Clare goes from being a 1/5 nailed on home game to being a 1/2 match if this is the case.

[LaurelEye]

If Longford's cheeky mention of scoring difference was the catalyst for this move, then it looks to have backfired on them.

I doubt if a chance remark by some ludramán that went no further than a footnote in a newspaper article is the cause of it. Offaly are hardly beneficiaries of the move either, given their own points difference. And Leitrim, who were more or less assured of Division 3 at a minimum, are back in danger of Division 4. The main winners would be Roscommon, who couldn't have afforded to lose in O'Connor Park.

The fact remains that if it was said (I don't think anyone could take the Indo's word as Gospel) it wasn't said to a journalist, it was said in a meeting. I do know that the Offaly county board had to go to the trouble of digging up precedent as well to rebut the argument, so it wasn't just a flippant throwaway remark.

In that case, the ludramán concerned should have his arse kicked all the way back to Cashel or Ballinalee or Mostrim or wherever else he comes from.

Regarding the nine teams in division 3 next year, that would work, but it makes a mess up of the qualifiers this year. Even as things stand it's a ticking time bomb because the three qualifier rounds take place on successive weekends - if one of the supposedly Tommy Murphy teams was to upset the apple cart and get to a provincial final it would mess things up enough massively - the system doesn't allow for any kind of flexibility.

I definitely think that if this is the case Offaly lose out - Roscommon would have been going all out either way, however it makes a huge difference to Longford - as was pointed out, their home game with Clare goes from being a 1/5 nailed on home game to being a 1/2 match if this is the case.

I wouldn't have put it as being as nailed-on as 1/5 anyway. Longford were poor in the second half of the match against Roscommon and they were absolutely rank last Sunday. I don't know what's wrong but unless it's sorted out rapidly they'll be in the Tommy Murphy Cup by the evening of May 13th.

[LaurelEye]

Seems to be confirmed.

Martin Skelly blasting the injustice of it all on Shannonshiteside lunchtime sports news.