Magdalene Laundries payout.

[The Boy Wonder]

I don't know anything about Hysel but Tony your opinion on the Magdelene laundry is disgusting. You should hang your head in shame.

Just read back through TF's posts - what is the opinion you consider disgusting Myles ?

In my opinion the Govt should by all means give special pensions to the ladies that spent time in these laundries in recognition of the fact that the state did not have the social services back then to properly provide for such people and as a consequence these women were exploited. Big lump sum payments are ridiculous. Would you pay 1950s/1960s emigrants lump sums becuase they could not stay at home and claim the equivalent of today's SW entitlements ?

[mylestheslasher]

His opening post says it all in its first paragraph. Tony says the women "looked happy" even though we all know that many of them were terribly used & abused in those hell holes. Maybe Tony should re-familiarise himself with the evidence from countless documentaries and books about just what went on in there. He then tries to play down the abuse by claiming that loads of people had it tough back then. A lot of people weren't effectively slaves though, were they. Having read much of the rubbish Tony posts over the years its clear that not only is he an out and out biggot, he is also a staunch supporter of the catholic church no matter what and can't bear to call a spade a spade for fear it would imply his beloved church wasn't just as righteous as they'd have us believe. The fact the the government has to fork out the money is the bigger shame as some of the gutless orders won't do it just like many of them have reneged on what they promised for child abuse compensation. He might be entitled to his opinion but I am entitled to pull him up for it. You never know he might even send me another abusive PM like he did before.

[Bingo]

I've not posted on this as I've no time for TF and his rants/windups/attention seeking.

But I'll just throw this in which highlights the problems of the ground at Hillsborough and the disaster that was waiting to happen, in this case it was avoided cause of actions taken. The same actions where not taken in 1989 cause of failure to learn from past mistakes and the inexperience of the man in charge on the day. I'm surprised he didn't mention this as he normally claims to know all about his spurs.

http://thehillsboroughdisasterdocumentary.com/2011/11/16/hillsborough-1981-disaster-narrowly-avoided/

[T Fearon]

Remember that Spurs semi final well,2 all draw,and Spurs won the replay 3 nil,at Highbury,courtesy of a wonder goal from Ricky Villa, nearly as good as the one he scored in the final replay that year against Man City.I genuinely wasn't aware that there had been problems at Hillsborough that day,and to be fair I slept,ate and drank Spurs at that time,and can only say that this information couldn't have been given any media profile at the time whatsoever.

On the basis of this I may well reconsider my opinions.

Myles you're as anti catholic church every bit as much as you claim I'm supportive of it.I didn't deny the Magdalene Laundry victims were treated harshly, my point is that they were one of a number of groups who were treated harshly,and if they are entitled to compensation,so are a host of others.

[Tubberman]

So what you're saying Tony is that its correct that the magdelene laundry women should be compensated ? In that case, who should pay the compensation?
Leave other groups out of it,that's just a distraction.

[T Fearon]

I'm saying if they should be compensated,so should other groupings who suffered,but I'm not in favour of my taxes used to compensate anyone for wrongdoing which happened before my time

[Maguire01]

I'm saying if they should be compensated,so should other groupings who suffered,but I'm not in favour of my taxes used to compensate anyone for wrongdoing which happened before my time

I'd rather the religious institutions paid for it myself.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I'm saying if they should be compensated,so should other groupings who suffered,but I'm not in favour of my taxes used to compensate anyone for wrongdoing which happened before my time

I'd rather the religious institutions paid for it myself.

+1

Sale of land and churches. They could also transfer schools directly to the state. Brothers, priests, nuns etc. could remain in their posts and receive a salary from the government, many are good educators and there is no need to lose their services.

[muppet]

I'm not.Just pointing out how ridiculous it is of Muppet to argue there were trouble free FA Cup semis at Hillsborough for years until the Police (as he infers) caused 1989.You could apply the same silly argument to European Cup Finals up until Hysel.

But you're right in ways,Hysel was an insight into what some Liverpool fans were really like and capable of,which undoubtedly fed into the Yorkshire Police's mindset and poor decision making at Hillsborough as a rapidly deteriorating situation developed.

I made no such argument. You did. 

Those who argue about inadequare crowd control, well FA Cup semi finals had been held at Hillsborough, on an annual basis, for years prior to 1989, without any significant problems.

You are now reduced to arguing with yourself, and you are still losing.

[From the Bunker]

I'm saying if they should be compensated,so should other groupings who suffered,but I'm not in favour of my taxes used to compensate anyone for wrongdoing which happened before my time

I'd rather the religious institutions paid for it myself.

+1

Sale of land and churches. They could also transfer schools directly to the state. Brothers, priests, nuns etc. could remain in their posts and receive a salary from the government, many are good educators and there is no need to lose their services.

The thing is, these women (Slaves) saved the state allot of money. Many of the semi-state and state institutions used their services. There was also money saved on Social Welfare, etc. These savings although not in our time can filter down in education, infrastructure and other savings that we now use or benefited from.


Other reasons include they should get compensation;

Their Children being kidnapped from them.

Their Children being sold belonging to them.

Many suffered serious beatings and many died hidden in unmarked graves from such abuse.

The Mental and psychological abuse on these women could not be imagined, many who got out could not form relationships or have a normal sex life.

Many in such a vulnerable place were sexually taken advantage of .

Lack of a decent diet meant that many suffer serious health problems in their later life.

Being held against their own will (in a hard labour prison) despite not breaking the law.

Being held under false pretenses (many had never even pregnant or near a man).

Losing their identity when they entered (losing their name, cropping their hair and loss of civilian clothes).

Being subject to serious working hours (which resulted in vacuous veins, permanent burn marks, premature aging, etc)

Many who got out, found themselves detached from society and unable to fit in.

Being in such an oppressive environment would see a curtailment of personality development.[/li][/list]

[Lar Naparka]

I don't know anything about Hysel but Tony your opinion on the Magdelene laundry is disgusting. You should hang your head in shame.

Just read back through TF's posts - what is the opinion you consider disgusting Myles ?

In my opinion the Govt should by all means give special pensions to the ladies that spent time in these laundries in recognition of the fact that the state did not have the social services back then to properly provide for such people and as a consequence these women were exploited. Big lump sum payments are ridiculous. Would you pay 1950s/1960s emigrants lump sums becuase they could not stay at home and claim the equivalent of today's SW entitlements ?

What state entitlements?
The state and the church didn't pay a cent towards the running of those institutions. It was up to the holy nuns to make them pay and this they sure did.
Magdalene laundries used slave labour so didn't have ages to pay and were able to undercut every other laundry in the area. Much of the land and property the nuns own today were bought out of the profits made by those laundries. I think it's only fair that they be forced to make restitution.
Government departments and state agencies saved millions by using those laundries and the state cannot renege on its responsibilities and refuse to pay the survivors they money they should have earned for their work.
There were no equivalent SW entitlements for any of the 1950s/60s emigrants. (or 70s/80s ones either)
Those women served life sentences in those slave labour camps unless some family member or someone of good standing in their neighbourhood were prepared to vouch for them.
Those who were "lucky" enough to be let out had no choice but emigrate. The state paid them nothing and their families and neighbours shunned them so they had to go to England in order to survive.
So a girl sent to a Magdalene laundry could never leave again or would be forced to leave the country if someone offered to take her out.
Ireland may have been a Catholic country but it certainly wasn't a Christian one.

[From the Bunker]

I don't know anything about Hysel but Tony your opinion on the Magdelene laundry is disgusting. You should hang your head in shame.

Just read back through TF's posts - what is the opinion you consider disgusting Myles ?

In my opinion the Govt should by all means give special pensions to the ladies that spent time in these laundries in recognition of the fact that the state did not have the social services back then to properly provide for such people and as a consequence these women were exploited. Big lump sum payments are ridiculous. Would you pay 1950s/1960s emigrants lump sums becuase they could not stay at home and claim the equivalent of today's SW entitlements ?

What state entitlements?
The state and the church didn't pay a cent towards the running of those institutions. It was up to the holy nuns to make them pay and this they sure did.
Magdalene laundries used slave labour so didn't have ages to pay and were able to undercut every other laundry in the area. Much of the land and property the nuns own today were bought out of the profits made by those laundries. I think it's only fair that they be forced to make restitution.
Government departments and state agencies saved millions by using those laundries and the state cannot renege on its responsibilities and refuse to pay the survivors they money they should have earned for their work.
There were no equivalent SW entitlements for any of the 1950s/60s emigrants. (or 70s/80s ones either)
Those women served life sentences in those slave labour camps unless some family member or someone of good standing in their neighbourhood were prepared to vouch for them.
Those who were "lucky" enough to be let out had no choice but emigrate. The state paid them nothing and their families and neighbours shunned them so they had to go to England in order to survive.
So a girl sent to a Magdalene laundry could never leave again or would be forced to leave the country if someone offered to take her out.
Ireland may have been a Catholic country but it certainly wasn't a Christian one.

+100

[muppet]

Imagine begrudging the Magdalene Laundry victims on one thread while defending Cardinal Brady on another.

[T Fearon]

I'm not begrudging anybody anything.What about others of the same era,like the wives of drunken husbands etc? Were they not slaves and abused? What about catholic nationalists in the North,denied houses,jobs etc,in this same era? My point is,in Ireland and indeed everywhere else,there was much less scrutiny and emphasis on human and civil rights than there is today,so is it fair that one group should be singled out for compensation,and if not,where is all this going to end?

[From the Bunker]

I'm not begrudging anybody anything.What about others of the same era,like the wives of drunken husbands etc? Were they not slaves and abused? What about catholic nationalists in the North,denied houses,jobs etc,in this same era? My point is,in Ireland and indeed everywhere else,there was much less scrutiny and emphasis on human and civil rights than there is today,so is it fair that one group should be singled out for compensation,and if not,where is all this going to end?

You see that's the great thing about compensation. It makes the people who pay the piper more concerned in the future that this will not happen again. If you take compensation out of the equation you leave allot of people vulnerable and the culprits without reprimand. 

Look in the scheme of things this is a small group of people getting smaller each year (because they are departing this life from old age) the compensation has a timeline and will cost the state less and less each year. The sad thing for many is this has come too late.