Stoops support SPADS, Sinn Fein sad and mad.

[glens abu]

MAYBE EVEN WORSE? i didnt know what martin McGuinness advisor did to this week, but i like to hear whats worse that blowing up a teenager, too many men on her with the party blinkers on, catch a grip lads. I have met and dealt with gerry adams though work and got on fine with him although that doesnt mean i forget what he was involved in. Lenny Murphy was the lowest of the low, the last thing he ever was is a victim

RUC and UDR men who colluded with Murphy and his ilk can work as special advisers,because they never served a day in their lives as the state protected them.Paul Kavanagh took his war to England,got caught and was jailed.Now the stoops discriminate against him.

[Wildweasel74]

yeah Glens abu dont forget about the teenager he blew up, oh right sorry forgot Pauls the victim here. Who are the special advisers from the RUC at stormont and who up there do they advise?  Why does a criminal record affect my job chances going for a general job in the civil service for many a offense which aint remotely near 5yrs, but it shouldn't affect the bigwigs up on that hill. oh thats right we dont want to rock the boat

[glens abu]

yeah Glens abu dont forget about the teenager he blew up, oh right sorry forgot Pauls the victim here. Who are the special advisers from the RUC at stormont and who up there do they advise?  Why does a criminal record affect my job chances going for a general job in the civil service for many a offense which aint remotely near 5yrs, but it shouldn't affect the bigwigs up on that hill. oh thats right we dont want to rock the boat

There are plenty of ex-RUC and UDR as special advisers and as MLAs in both the DUP and UUP but sure nobody gives a fiddlers,and there would be no peace process if it wasn't for people like Paul Kavanagh so I really don't care about your problems in the civil service,if you can't get promotion that's your problem I want equality for Spads and this bill doesn't give it.You should also know by now that SF will always rock the boat.

[Nally Stand]

yeah Glens abu dont forget about the teenager he blew up, oh right sorry forgot Pauls the victim here. Who are the special advisers from the RUC at stormont and who up there do they advise?  Why does a criminal record affect my job chances going for a general job in the civil service for many a offense which aint remotely near 5yrs, but it shouldn't affect the bigwigs up on that hill. oh thats right we dont want to rock the boat

Look if there was any sort of equality in convictions, then your argument would be worthy of debate. As I previously mentioned, not even including collusion with loyalists, the British Army itself murdered over 300 innocent Irish men & women yet only four soldiers ever saw the inside of a prison cell. Four. All were on full British Army pay for the duration of their convictions. Two were released within two years, reinstated in the army and promoted, and the other two were released after six years.

Also as mentioned earlier, in 1972, in a meeting between Secretary for State William Whitelaw, the North's most senior British Army officer the General Officer Commanding (GOC) General Ford, the Deputy Chief Constable of the RUC, plus Lord Windlesham the British government's representative in the House of Lords, British MP's, and senior civil servants from the NIO, it was stated that

'The (British) Army should not be inhibited in its campaign by the threat of court proceedings and should therefore be suitably indemnified."

That month the British Army murdered 20 innocent Irish people. They murdered 79 that year. As I said, this doesn't include the hundreds more victims of collusion.

So while the level of convictions for a highly active participant in the conflict was almost nil, then this legislation is exclusive of a huge number of victims. As such it is divides victims, it prioritises sections of victims, and is bordering on sectarian. On top of this, the status of prisoners as political was recognised in the fact that they were granted early release under the GFA, so to pass this law, bizarrely, is to exclude them from a specific role in the political process. Even more bizzarly when it means an ex prisoner can't be an advisor to a minister, but can be a minister. It is a textbook example of bad law.

"The Governments continue to recognise the importance of measures to facilitate the reintegration of prisoners into the community by providing support both prior to and after release, including assistance directed towards availing of employment opportunities." (Good Friday Agreement).

[Wildweasel74]

Oh i have no criminal record and have no problem beating the way up the ladder in the ciivl service as am actually qualified to do the jobs unlike them freeloaders at stormont who couldnt manage their way out of a paper bag fore by run govt. If they knew what the f**k they were doing they woudnt need special advisors. See your part of the problem, general sinn fein supporters see no problem killing children or people in the cross fire to get their objectives, with the simple excuse they were doing it to us so that makes it right. But for right thinking people we know the difference between right and wrong, and killing someone is wrong no matter what way you want to powder coat it. Instead of giving it large to the SDLP what wrong with your buddies in the DUP saying both parties are having alove in and dont want to hear the vews of any other party

[Nally Stand]

general sinn fein supporters see no problem killing children...

Sorry, I tried engaging in serious debate with you. My mistake.

[Saffrongael]

Oh i have no criminal record and have no problem beating the way up the ladder in the ciivl service as am actually qualified to do the jobs unlike them freeloaders at stormont who couldnt manage their way out of a paper bag fore by run govt. If they knew what the f**k they were doing they woudnt need special advisors. See your part of the problem, general sinn fein supporters see no problem killing children or people in the cross fire to get their objectives, with the simple excuse they were doing it to us so that makes it right. But for right thinking people we know the difference between right and wrong, and killing someone is wrong no matter what way you want to powder coat it. Instead of giving it large to the SDLP what wrong with your buddies in the DUP saying both parties are having alove in and dont want to hear the vews of any other party

Paul Kavanagh will be grand, he will be parachuted in to some pseudo "community" job that is awash with public money.

[Tony Baloney]

Watching Shinners of all people trying to claim the moral high ground gives me a warm glow inside.

[Wildweasel74]

Your a tyrone man Nally, you believe you win the all Ireland ever yr, sure how could we have a serious debate lol

[Maguire01]

Is this not democracy in action in the same way as the flegs debate in BCC? I must have missed something.

There are quite a few parallels:

Flegs: Fake 'Alliance' leaflets distributed
SPADs: Fake SDLP 'racist' flyer doing the rounds on Twitter

Flegs: Alliance accused of supporting SF, just because they were voting the same way
SPADs: SDLP accused of supporting TUV, just because they were voting the same way... even though they actually weren't

Flegs: Unionists not very happy at losing democratic vote
SPADs: SF not very happy at losing democratic vote

Flegs: Alliance told they'll be electorally wiped out
SPADs: SDLP told they'll be electorally wiped out

and another one...

Flegs: Intimidation of party rep who couldn't have voted on the issue at hand because she isn't a City Councillor (Naomi Long)
SPADs: Intimidation of party rep who couldn't have voted on the issue at hand because she isn't an MLA (Nichola Mallon)

[Applesisapples]

But there cannot be a hierarchy of victims.

I don't understand this idea at all. There absolutely should be a hierarchy of victims. As has been said many times, a paramilitary killed planting their own bomb and an innocent child who happened to be passing the scene - both equal victims? I don't think so.

Very simplistic but ignorant post, you need to research the history of the north before espousing this type of comment. Violence is not the preserve of just one faction. Partition came about through loyalist paramilitary violence.

I'm well aware of the history. Play the ball.

By your logic, Lenny Murphy, leader of the Shankill Butchers and killed by the IRA, is as much a victim as those horrendously murdered at the hands of the Shankill Butchers. That doesn't sit right with me.

Yes he was. The real point I am making is that the current position of the SDLP supports the notion that victim hood is the preserve only of those killed by republicans and that the sole blame for violence in NI can be laid at nationalist doors. It ignores the nature of the violence used by Unionists from the plantation. We all need to accept that victim hood is shared and no one has a monopoly on the commission of violent acts.

[Applesisapples]

But there cannot be a hierarchy of victims.

Evening All.

Since I've neither the time nor inclination to post these days (or even browse much), this must be a flying visit.

However, having logged on to view the reaction to the SPAD's vote, my attention was particularly caught by the above assertion.

So tell me, Apples, do you feel that eg the two UVF members who blew themselves up in the Miami Show Band Massacre should be accorded the same "victim" status as the three band members who were murdered?

(It's a simple Yes/No question, btw)

Yes

[glens abu]

Oh i have no criminal record and have no problem beating the way up the ladder in the ciivl service as am actually qualified to do the jobs unlike them freeloaders at stormont who couldnt manage their way out of a paper bag fore by run govt. If they knew what the f**k they were doing they woudnt need special advisors. See your part of the problem, general sinn fein supporters see no problem killing children or people in the cross fire to get their objectives, with the simple excuse they were doing it to us so that makes it right. But for right thinking people we know the difference between right and wrong, and killing someone is wrong no matter what way you want to powder coat it. Instead of giving it large to the SDLP what wrong with your buddies in the DUP saying both parties are having alove in and dont want to hear the vews of any other party

Sounds like you are not getting your promotion quick enough as you seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding people getting paid more than you who are " not as clever as you" the hard working civil servant.Also a a civil servant you should know that all ministers in most governments have special advisers,think even direct rule ministers have civil servants doing that job and they with all their brains didn't do too well.

[Applesisapples]

For the Shinners on here you can't claim that IRA men killing or bombing were victims of circumstances and on the other deny that others on the unionist side aren't.

[Tony Baloney]

But there cannot be a hierarchy of victims.

I don't understand this idea at all. There absolutely should be a hierarchy of victims. As has been said many times, a paramilitary killed planting their own bomb and an innocent child who happened to be passing the scene - both equal victims? I don't think so.

Very simplistic but ignorant post, you need to research the history of the north before espousing this type of comment. Violence is not the preserve of just one faction. Partition came about through loyalist paramilitary violence.

I'm well aware of the history. Play the ball.

By your logic, Lenny Murphy, leader of the Shankill Butchers and killed by the IRA, is as much a victim as those horrendously murdered at the hands of the Shankill Butchers. That doesn't sit right with me.

Yes he was. The real point I am making is that the current position of the SDLP supports the notion that victim hood is the preserve only of those killed by republicans and that the sole blame for violence in NI can be laid at nationalist doors. It ignores the nature of the violence used by Unionists from the plantation. We all need to accept that lovely big pot of victims hood cash is shared and no one has a monopoly on all these well paid jobs for doing fcuk allthe commission of violent acts.s