Mayo vs. Roscommon Connacht SFC Semi-final (June 16th, McHale Park)

[Syferus]

What would you prefer? Win a minor or U21 AI or produce a senior player like Aidan O Sé or Michael Murphy who were not underage winners.

Murphy,O Sé both won provincial underage titles. For some the hurt of losing underage All Ireland can drive them on at senior level, it certainly worked for Murphy.

I don t understand?

Like Mayo winning a provincial minor ? 5/6 a decade should be the norm if anybody was bothered too much.

My point is that those two are massive talents. I suspect they dragged their respective teams along as far as they got.

Bothered? I don't know. Mayo had a stage of winning four in row U-21 Connacht titles between 2006-09 those sides have supplied a lot of the current senior team however since then Galway,Roscommon have made Connacht underage a three horse race. Ulster titles aren't easy to win at any level.

In Murphys case he missed a penalty in the U-21 final against Dublin in 2010. That would have driven him on in the senior final.

Murphy was there anyway. Like Aidan O Se will be unless a plane crashes. I saw the Murphy peno miss an all. One of those things. Like pricking your finger pruning roses. He was always going to be there. A talent even Kerry gets every 50 years.

But I don t want to get too personal about how Mayo have gone about doin their underage stuff in recent years if ye know what I mean 

Ah, sweet Jesus. The hype around Murphy is so far overboard it's probably half-way to New York by now.

Both Murphy and O'Shea have excelled in a lot of ways thanks to demanding and talented coaches. O'Shea was wild and over-weight before Horan took over, indeed he was that way as late as September 2011. Murphy likewise was going to languish in purgatory, not as fit as he could/should be, if McGuiness hadn't come along. Neither could be rightfully classed as exceptional before meeting their respective 'partners', even if some of the hype would lead you to believe they were.

Gaelic football is a single nation sport for most purposes and operates on a relatively small pool compared to most other major sports - good coaching is perhaps the single most important element in any footballer excelling in the modern game and the great leveler. And, yeah, good coaching costs a pretty penny.

[moysider]

What would you prefer? Win a minor or U21 AI or produce a senior player like Aidan O Sé or Michael Murphy who were not underage winners.

Murphy,O Sé both won provincial underage titles. For some the hurt of losing underage All Ireland can drive them on at senior level, it certainly worked for Murphy.

I don t understand?

Like Mayo winning a provincial minor ? 5/6 a decade should be the norm if anybody was bothered too much.

My point is that those two are massive talents. I suspect they dragged their respective teams along as far as they got.

Bothered? I don't know. Mayo had a stage of winning four in row U-21 Connacht titles between 2006-09 those sides have supplied a lot of the current senior team however since then Galway,Roscommon have made Connacht underage a three horse race. Ulster titles aren't easy to win at any level.

In Murphys case he missed a penalty in the U-21 final against Dublin in 2010. That would have driven him on in the senior final.

Murphy was there anyway. Like Aidan O Se will be unless a plane crashes. I saw the Murphy peno miss an all. One of those things. Like pricking your finger pruning roses. He was always going to be there. A talent even Kerry gets every 50 years.

But I don t want to get too personal about how Mayo have gone about doin their underage stuff in recent years if ye know what I mean 

Ah, sweet Jesus. The hype around Murphy is so far overboard it's probably half-way to New York by now.

Both Murphy and O'Shea have excelled in a lot of ways thanks to demanding and talented coaches. O'Shea was wild and over-weight before Horan took over, indeed he was that way as late as September 2011. Murphy likewise was going to languish in purgatory, not as fit as he could/should be, if McGuiness hadn't come along. Neither could be rightfully classed as exceptional before meeting their respective 'partners', even if some of the hype would lead you to believe they were.

Gaelic football is a single nation sport for most purposes and operates on a relatively small pool compared to most other major sports - good coaching is perhaps the single greatness element in any footballer excelling in the modern game.

One could argue the contrary Sy. McGuinness would not be an AI winning manager without Murphy - who will always look a bit heavy anyway - but he can play. McGuinness made him captain for life virtually at 21/22? McGuinness is smart but without Murphy he/and Donegal would not have their AI.

Mayo need a few players fit  because our traditional game not as easily tweaked to what s needed as Donegal s traditional shorter game.  Higgins, Boyle, O Sés, McLoughlin, Keegan, O Connor, Dillon, Andy, Conroy have to be on top of their game for us to have a chance.

[Syferus]

What would you prefer? Win a minor or U21 AI or produce a senior player like Aidan O Sé or Michael Murphy who were not underage winners.

Murphy,O Sé both won provincial underage titles. For some the hurt of losing underage All Ireland can drive them on at senior level, it certainly worked for Murphy.

I don t understand?

Like Mayo winning a provincial minor ? 5/6 a decade should be the norm if anybody was bothered too much.

My point is that those two are massive talents. I suspect they dragged their respective teams along as far as they got.

Bothered? I don't know. Mayo had a stage of winning four in row U-21 Connacht titles between 2006-09 those sides have supplied a lot of the current senior team however since then Galway,Roscommon have made Connacht underage a three horse race. Ulster titles aren't easy to win at any level.

In Murphys case he missed a penalty in the U-21 final against Dublin in 2010. That would have driven him on in the senior final.

Murphy was there anyway. Like Aidan O Se will be unless a plane crashes. I saw the Murphy peno miss an all. One of those things. Like pricking your finger pruning roses. He was always going to be there. A talent even Kerry gets every 50 years.

But I don t want to get too personal about how Mayo have gone about doin their underage stuff in recent years if ye know what I mean 

Ah, sweet Jesus. The hype around Murphy is so far overboard it's probably half-way to New York by now.

Both Murphy and O'Shea have excelled in a lot of ways thanks to demanding and talented coaches. O'Shea was wild and over-weight before Horan took over, indeed he was that way as late as September 2011. Murphy likewise was going to languish in purgatory, not as fit as he could/should be, if McGuiness hadn't come along. Neither could be rightfully classed as exceptional before meeting their respective 'partners', even if some of the hype would lead you to believe they were.

Gaelic football is a single nation sport for most purposes and operates on a relatively small pool compared to most other major sports - good coaching is perhaps the single greatness element in any footballer excelling in the modern game.

One could argue the contrary Sy. McGuinness would not be an AI winning manager without Murphy - who will always look a bit heavy anyway - but he can play. McGuinness made him captain for life virtually at 21/22? McGuinness is smart but without Murphy he/and Donegal would not have their AI.

Mayo need a few players fit  because our traditional game not as easily tweaked to what s needed as Donegal s traditional shorter game.  Higgins, Boyle, O Sés, McLoughlin, Keegan, O Connor, Dillon, Andy, Conroy have to be on top of their game for us to have a chance.

Actually I think McGuiness has under-utilised Murphy for much of his tenure, indeed his role could have been fulfilled by any decent and fit (to Donegal's level) free-taker in the country) in many of their games. He was playing as just another track-back merchant a lot of times and was rarely used to trouble full-backs under high ball, which obviously is one of the talents that sets him apart and is what caused such havoc in last year's AI final.

If you asked who Donegal needed more, McFadden or Murphy, it'd be McFadden hands down. By virtue of who much he is allowed to create he's the one of Donegal's big two that makes them tick. There's indications that's changing, but that's neither here nor there.

Now if the question was who would I take if I could choose one from some hypothetical team it'd be Murphy in an instant because of his sheer width and age. But the way McGuiness used him for much of last year you could have slotted in a pretty sizeable number of other forwards and they'd got basically the same return as Murphy did in McGuiness' system. A 'flair' player playing as a system player is still just a system player.

And don't get me started on the mess that is captaining players and how the role is utilised (or more exactly, not utilised) on the field.

[moysider]

What would you prefer? Win a minor or U21 AI or produce a senior player like Aidan O Sé or Michael Murphy who were not underage winners.

Murphy,O Sé both won provincial underage titles. For some the hurt of losing underage All Ireland can drive them on at senior level, it certainly worked for Murphy.

I don t understand?

Like Mayo winning a provincial minor ? 5/6 a decade should be the norm if anybody was bothered too much.

My point is that those two are massive talents. I suspect they dragged their respective teams along as far as they got.

Bothered? I don't know. Mayo had a stage of winning four in row U-21 Connacht titles between 2006-09 those sides have supplied a lot of the current senior team however since then Galway,Roscommon have made Connacht underage a three horse race. Ulster titles aren't easy to win at any level.

In Murphys case he missed a penalty in the U-21 final against Dublin in 2010. That would have driven him on in the senior final.

Murphy was there anyway. Like Aidan O Se will be unless a plane crashes. I saw the Murphy peno miss an all. One of those things. Like pricking your finger pruning roses. He was always going to be there. A talent even Kerry gets every 50 years.

But I don t want to get too personal about how Mayo have gone about doin their underage stuff in recent years if ye know what I mean 

Ah, sweet Jesus. The hype around Murphy is so far overboard it's probably half-way to New York by now.

Both Murphy and O'Shea have excelled in a lot of ways thanks to demanding and talented coaches. O'Shea was wild and over-weight before Horan took over, indeed he was that way as late as September 2011. Murphy likewise was going to languish in purgatory, not as fit as he could/should be, if McGuiness hadn't come along. Neither could be rightfully classed as exceptional before meeting their respective 'partners', even if some of the hype would lead you to believe they were.

Gaelic football is a single nation sport for most purposes and operates on a relatively small pool compared to most other major sports - good coaching is perhaps the single greatness element in any footballer excelling in the modern game.

One could argue the contrary Sy. McGuinness would not be an AI winning manager without Murphy - who will always look a bit heavy anyway - but he can play. McGuinness made him captain for life virtually at 21/22? McGuinness is smart but without Murphy he/and Donegal would not have their AI.

Mayo need a few players fit  because our traditional game not as easily tweaked to what s needed as Donegal s traditional shorter game.  Higgins, Boyle, O Sés, McLoughlin, Keegan, O Connor, Dillon, Andy, Conroy have to be on top of their game for us to have a chance.

Actually I think McGuiness has under-utilised Murphy for much of his tenure, indeed his role could have been fulfilled by any decent and fit (to Donegal's level) free-taker in the country) in many of their games. He was playing as just another track-back merchant a lot of times and was rarely used to trouble full-backs under high ball, which obviously is one of the talents that sets him apart and is what caused such havoc in last year's AI final.

If you asked who Donegal needed more, McFadden or Murphy, it'd be McFadden hands down. By virtue of who much he is allowed to create he's the one of Donegal's big two that makes them tick. There's indications that's changing, but that's neither here nor there.

Now if the question was who would I take if I could choose one from some hypothetical team it'd be Murphy in an instant because of his sheer width and age. But the way McGuiness used him for much of last year you could have slotted in a pretty sizeable number of other forwards and they'd got basically the same return as Murphy did in McGuiness' system. A 'flair' player playing as a system player is still just a system player.

And don't get me started on the mess that is captaining players and how the role is utilised (or more exactly, not utilised) on the field.

That line alone shows the poles apart we are in seeing stuff. Mayo have managed McFadden well down the years. He s been a Senan Kilbride. Tight marking does him but he finishes well when opportunities present themselves. Murphy is technically in a different galaxy and is a leader. Of course McGuinness uses him about the place but he has to. His middle third is short of class and he does what is needed. Starting Murphy inside on his own last September was a stroke that we fell for but that s the way it goes. McFadden would not have done the damage for that early goal. No way. Comparing a knight on horseback to a tank.

[larryin89]

The way people go on about players nowadays, you'd swear its just all down to trainning/attitude and who's managing them, how about the ability of the actual player himself.Btw was it not AOS who starred for Mayo in 2009 in our drubbing of Roscommon and he scored 1-1 against Meath too in q/f if my memory serves me right, probably 19 years old at the time.

[Crete Boom]

Mayo were superb yesterday and the last day out against Galway. However they are spending insane money that they don't have. As an operation they could be the first county to be wound up.

Well if you mean the money doled out on the MacHale park redevelopment and all the skulduggery that went with it yes it was insane stuff but that has only had a negative impact on team preparations especially at underage. If there was loads of borrowed money there to be spent Horan wouldn't have even got the Job 2 and bit years ago and the Micko show would have rolled into town in 2011!!

[Lar Naparka]

Michael Finneran always struck me as a fine footballer. A fine, hefty lump of a lad and a great grafter with skill that belied his size, I expected him to lead the way if Roscommon were to have a chance of winning.
Several times during the early stages when Roscommon were motoring well, he dropped back to act as link man. When he did this for the second time, I knew his cause was hopeless and I suspect he felt the same way.
He got the ball in the clear each time and then meandered off in the general direction of the Mayo goal. As he soloed along, nice and easy, he was looking down at the ball as if counting his steps and then when he ran out of ideas, he stopped and looked around to see if anyone was willing to take a pass. Meanwhile, Mayo players had being laying off and haring back into position to await his next move.
He will have better days in the primrose and blue without a doubt but if you compare his solo runs with those of, say, Keith Higgins, the difference in mental approach is obvious.
He wasn't the worst of the well-known names on the Ross team either.  Cregg, Mannion and Kilbride were very subdued all through and it was left to some of the younger lads to carry the fight to Mayo.
If the entire Brigid's team had been fielded, they'd have put up a better fight.
Ross has been underperforming for years and bad habits are hard to break. Dunno if better training and coaching facilities will cure this malaise either. The problem seems more deep-rooted than that.
Even the arrival of John Evans hasn't brought any change for the better or so it seems.
If they get a good run in the qualifiers, it might help to get them back on track again. I certainly wish them well. If Connacht football is to prosper, we need a more even standard throughout.

[seafoid]

What would you prefer? Win a minor or U21 AI or produce a senior player like Aidan O Sé or Michael Murphy who were not underage winners.

Murphy,O Sé both won provincial underage titles. For some the hurt of losing underage All Ireland can drive them on at senior level, it certainly worked for Murphy.

I don t understand?

Like Mayo winning a provincial minor ? 5/6 a decade should be the norm if anybody was bothered too much.

My point is that those two are massive talents. I suspect they dragged their respective teams along as far as they got.

Bothered? I don't know. Mayo had a stage of winning four in row U-21 Connacht titles between 2006-09 those sides have supplied a lot of the current senior team however since then Galway,Roscommon have made Connacht underage a three horse race. Ulster titles aren't easy to win at any level.

In Murphys case he missed a penalty in the U-21 final against Dublin in 2010. That would have driven him on in the senior final.

Murphy was there anyway. Like Aidan O Se will be unless a plane crashes. I saw the Murphy peno miss an all. One of those things. Like pricking your finger pruning roses. He was always going to be there. A talent even Kerry gets every 50 years.

But I don t want to get too personal about how Mayo have gone about doin their underage stuff in recent years if ye know what I mean 

Ah, sweet Jesus. The hype around Murphy is so far overboard it's probably half-way to New York by now.

Both Murphy and O'Shea have excelled in a lot of ways thanks to demanding and talented coaches. O'Shea was wild and over-weight before Horan took over, indeed he was that way as late as September 2011. Murphy likewise was going to languish in purgatory, not as fit as he could/should be, if McGuiness hadn't come along. Neither could be rightfully classed as exceptional before meeting their respective 'partners', even if some of the hype would lead you to believe they were.

Gaelic football is a single nation sport for most purposes and operates on a relatively small pool compared to most other major sports - good coaching is perhaps the single most important element in any footballer excelling in the modern game and the great leveler. And, yeah, good coaching costs a pretty penny.

Take your beating, Syf. Mayo are a very good team. Ros are not. If Warren Buffett bought Ros they still wouldn't win the all Ireland.
It's not about money.  It's about hard work and skill.

[ross matt]

Michael Finneran always struck me as a fine footballer. A fine, hefty lump of a lad and a great grafter with skill that belied his size, I expected him to lead the way if Roscommon were to have a chance of winning.
Several times during the early stages when Roscommon were motoring well, he dropped back to act as link man. When he did this for the second time, I knew his cause was hopeless and I suspect he felt the same way.
He got the ball in the clear each time and then meandered off in the general direction of the Mayo goal. As he soloed along, nice and easy, he was looking down at the ball as if counting his steps and then when he ran out of ideas, he stopped and looked around to see if anyone was willing to take a pass. Meanwhile, Mayo players had being laying off and haring back into position to await his next move.
He will have better days in the primrose and blue without a doubt but if you compare his solo runs with those of, say, Keith Higgins, the difference in mental approach is obvious.
He wasn't the worst of the well-known names on the Ross team either.  Cregg, Mannion and Kilbride were very subdued all through and it was left to some of the younger lads to carry the fight to Mayo.
If the entire Brigid's team had been fielded, they'd have put up a better fight.
Ross has been underperforming for years and bad habits are hard to break. Dunno if better training and coaching facilities will cure this malaise either. The problem seems more deep-rooted than that.
Even the arrival of John Evans hasn't brought any change for the better or so it seems.
If they get a good run in the qualifiers, it might help to get them back on track again. I certainly wish them well. If Connacht football is to prosper, we need a more even standard throughout.

Yeah Lar.  Mike Finneran handled alot of ball in the first half but most of it was soloing out of his own backline at a very slow pace. In fairness he didn't give away possession but his lack of pace allowed Mayo loads of time to filter back as you pointed out. He's an honest, hardworking player with a fine fetch of a ball but I don't think he'll ever have much speed.

[ballinaman]

Mayo were superb yesterday and the last day out against Galway. However they are spending insane money that they don't have. As an operation they could be the first county to be wound up.

Well if you mean the money doled out on the MacHale park redevelopment and all the skulduggery that went with it yes it was insane stuff but that has only had a negative impact on team preparations especially at underage. If there was loads of borrowed money there to be spent Horan wouldn't have even got the Job 2 and bit years ago and the Micko show would have rolled into town in 2011!!

I would guess he's talking about that Donie Buckley and company aren't being obtained at bargain basement prices, also surgery and subsequent months of rehab for Andy,Micky and Cillian isn't cheap either. They are getting the best possible treatment and rightly so. You can't and shouldn't skimp there.

[Crete Boom]

Mayo were superb yesterday and the last day out against Galway. However they are spending insane money that they don't have. As an operation they could be the first county to be wound up.

Well if you mean the money doled out on the MacHale park redevelopment and all the skulduggery that went with it yes it was insane stuff but that has only had a negative impact on team preparations especially at underage. If there was loads of borrowed money there to be spent Horan wouldn't have even got the Job 2 and bit years ago and the Micko show would have rolled into town in 2011!!

I would guess he's talking about that Donie Buckley and company aren't being obtained at bargain basement prices, also surgery and subsequent months of rehab for Andy,Micky and Cillian isn't cheap either. They are getting the best possible treatment and rightly so. You can't and shouldn't skimp there.

   Yeah but take Donie Buckley out of the equation and those kind of costs are associated with most counties. Factor in that John Evans isn't driving all the way up to Roscommon for the good of his health or Roscommon football whereas James Horan at least is based in Mayo! Also someone tried to lump in the team holiday which was paid for by Croke Park as if it was some elaborate American mini camp and over looked the fact that Mayo actually stayed at home in Belmullet for their pre championship training camp. What I am really trying to say is that the costs are relative to where you are challenging in the championship and I have no doubt when the Rossies get back to division 1 standard , are winning Connacht titles and challenging for Sam their respective expenditure on their team preparation will mirror what Mayo are currently spending now but it won't be the thing that takes them back up into the top table of championship football.

[Rossfan]

Michael Finneran always struck me as a fine footballer. A fine, hefty lump of a lad and a great grafter with skill that belied his size, I expected him to lead the way if Roscommon were to have a chance of winning.
Several times during the early stages when Roscommon were motoring well, he dropped back to act as link man. When he did this for the second time, I knew his cause was hopeless and I suspect he felt the same way.
He got the ball in the clear each time and then meandered off in the general direction of the Mayo goal. As he soloed along, nice and easy, he was looking down at the ball as if counting his steps and then when he ran out of ideas, he stopped and looked around to see if anyone was willing to take a pass. Meanwhile, Mayo players had being laying off and haring back into position to await his next move.
He will have better days in the primrose and blue without a doubt but if you compare his solo runs with those of, say, Keith Higgins, the difference in mental approach is obvious.
He wasn't the worst of the well-known names on the Ross team either.  Cregg, Mannion and Kilbride were very subdued all through and it was left to some of the younger lads to carry the fight to Mayo.
If the entire Brigid's team had been fielded, they'd have put up a better fight.
Ross has been underperforming for years and bad habits are hard to break. Dunno if better training and coaching facilities will cure this malaise either. The problem seems more deep-rooted than that.
Even the arrival of John Evans hasn't brought any change for the better or so it seems.
If they get a good run in the qualifiers, it might help to get them back on track again. I certainly wish them well. If Connacht football is to prosper, we need a more even standard throughout.

Yeah Lar.  Mike Finneran handled alot of ball in the first half but most of it was soloing out of his own backline at a very slow pace. In fairness he didn't give away possession but his lack of pace allowed Mayo loads of time to filter back as you pointed out. He's an honest, hardworking player with a fine fetch of a ball but I don't think he'll ever have much speed.

I'm only now coming able to comment on Sunday as I had to work Sunday night and was too pained to bother until now.
It was men against boys, a well oiled and drilled machine in its 3rd year under a good management against a team who looked every inch a D3 outfit with a mangement only 7 months in the role.

Poor oul Mikeen just never gives up and if more talented lads applied themselves as well we'd be in a somehwhat better place.
We were a disaster from 9 to 15 except for Donie Smith who was easily brushed aside by the Mwr defence which shows the difference between what looks like a strong lad at underage and Senior level strength.
Half backs who can attack are all very well but how about the primary role lads?
Full back line not too bad although I think we can forget about Carty at FB , Collins is the man for that job. O'Malley did well with a good save when Mwr tried walking the ball to the net. Mind you we need to do more with kickouts than lash them down the field.
Mwr will give the AI a good run for its money and remember they gave Donegal a 7 point start last year and could well have beaten them as they made DL look very ordinary at times.
For us - a good draw and a Round 3 appearance a necessity.
Thten get down to the real work as a programme needs to be mapped out and players identified who can bring us to a higher level over the next 2/3 years.
That might mean dumping a few prima donnas who seem to be there on name only - well so be it.
As for the Qualifiers - we won't beat Tyrone or Derry, I'd give us a good chance v Galway, Longford, Wicklow,Offaly, Laois, Louth,Fermanagh, Armagh, Westmeath. We should handle Carlow, Limerick, Waterford, Antrim or Sligo.

[seafoid]

So it s a good time to be a Mayo man - even if The Grail itself might elude us. That s sport, but this team is working at becoming champions rather than hoping it might happen. Fair play to them for surviving the horror years and the ridicule of the general public. I hope for themselves that they get to the summit.

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.850;wap2

In Castlebar, a small but steadfast crowd was waiting in the heavy rain outside the Welcome Inn. Nothing official had been arranged, but these Mayo people stood vigil all the same. Their gesture choked Brady up in a way he hadn't felt in years. In the function room, he was overcome. That was when it hit him. Thirteen years of playing county football and this was how it ended. He had to lower his head, had to raise his hand to warn his friends away.
"The warmth of those people was incredible. It kind of dawned on me then. The whole thing hit me and in my heart and soul, I shed a tear or two inside. That is what I had been doing this thing for - the 13 years of breaking arms, legs, nose, jaws, the hundreds of training sessions, the whole lot - that is why. These were strangers standing in the pissing rain to greet a team that had been destroyed in the biggest football match of the year. I won't ever forget that."

[ross matt]

Do you ever tire of the fact that nobody responds to your sly posts seafoid/Shlieveen?
The Mayo team in your link bear no resemblance to the current one... so what's your point?

Have the Herron chokers not enough problems of their own to be contending with?

What's you obsession with trying to dampen Mayo success and taunt Rossie failure?

I know you being a shlieveen is partly the reason.... but am I missing something? Is there an Israeli conspiracy link to all of this?

[An Gaeilgoir]

Christ, that's harsh................