Mayo vs. Roscommon Connacht SFC Semi-final (June 16th, McHale Park)

[From the Bunker]

How many underage/club AI's had the Donegal squad of last year? What is the record of Kerry at underage/club over the last 10 years up to their last AI success in 2009?  Both just trickled in players year after year. In Donegals case, they just needed a good coach.

[INDIANA]

What sort of time frame are you looking at for these underage lads to become stars of their senior team.

I look at likes of K.Higgans , he was on senior team in 06 when he won u-21 title.

I know it has taken some of them longer to establish themselves as top seniors but not all that much longer, AOS  is 22 and an established top midfielder , some would say one of the finest in the country.

Cillian o Connor was u-21 this year and he also is a recognised top player.

My point is i think the Ross are waiting for something to happen automatically , that might not happen imo for lots of reasons, main one being ye have no players there to blend them with or bring them on.

Really tough times ahead for Roscommon.

Mayo look really really good, quality all over the park, i believe we will win the all  Ireland.

Keith Higgins walked onto a team that was about to contest it's second AI final in three years, CO'C a team going to the AISF and AI final in his first two years. We've been building from pretty much square one post-Maughan, as late as 2011 were were in D4. The 2006 minors are looked to as experienced players but they're only 24 and can't be expected to become veterns just because there's not many older than them.

Basically trying to compare development arcs between counties is a fool's game. What's progress to one county isn't to another.

Patience and planning remain the key words for us.

In fairness you've won one all-ireland minor in 06ish and contested one all-ireland u21 final in 2012

Galway have won 2 all-ireland u21's and aren't next to near anything at senior level.

We've won a rake of underage titles at leinster level at hurling and beaten kilkenny several times and are still miles behind them at senior level.

I'm not convinced there will be any revolution for Roscommon simply from patience. Underage titles can be a curse at times as lads go onto senior panels expecting things to happen. Senior is a massive step up from u21. If you get 3 good seniors from an u21 team you've done well

[IolarCoisCuain]

I think James Horan was one of the stars yesterday.
Before the championship started, I wouldn't have given Alan Freeman, Donie Vaughan or Richie Feeney much chance of getting a starting place on the side.
I thought both Alan and Donie have underperformed throughout last season and Richie seemed to be forever doomed to a place on the subs' bench.
It's fair to say that very many Mayo followers were of the same opinion.
All three played their part in Salthill but yesterday they well and truly silenced their critics- me anyway.
James Horan can be thanked for this. He's turning out to be one of the shrewdest managers on the go often gets overlooked when the plaudits are being handed out.
Keep 'er going, James; we're on a roll.

Well said Lar.

[Syferus]

What sort of time frame are you looking at for these underage lads to become stars of their senior team.

I look at likes of K.Higgans , he was on senior team in 06 when he won u-21 title.

I know it has taken some of them longer to establish themselves as top seniors but not all that much longer, AOS  is 22 and an established top midfielder , some would say one of the finest in the country.

Cillian o Connor was u-21 this year and he also is a recognised top player.

My point is i think the Ross are waiting for something to happen automatically , that might not happen imo for lots of reasons, main one being ye have no players there to blend them with or bring them on.

Really tough times ahead for Roscommon.

Mayo look really really good, quality all over the park, i believe we will win the all  Ireland.

Keith Higgins walked onto a team that was about to contest it's second AI final in three years, CO'C a team going to the AISF and AI final in his first two years. We've been building from pretty much square one post-Maughan, as late as 2011 were were in D4. The 2006 minors are looked to as experienced players but they're only 24 and can't be expected to become veterns just because there's not many older than them.

Basically trying to compare development arcs between counties is a fool's game. What's progress to one county isn't to another.

Patience and planning remain the key words for us.

In fairness you've won one all-ireland minor in 06ish and contested one all-ireland u21 final in 2012

Galway have won 2 all-ireland u21's and aren't next to near anything at senior level.

We've won a rake of underage titles at leinster level at hurling and beaten kilkenny several times and are still miles behind them at senior level.

I'm not convinced there will be any revolution for Roscommon simply from patience. Underage titles can be a curse at times as lads go onto senior panels expecting things to happen. Senior is a massive step up from u21. If you get 3 good seniors from an u21 team you've done well

Hence the planning part.

[From the Bunker]

What sort of time frame are you looking at for these underage lads to become stars of their senior team.

I look at likes of K.Higgans , he was on senior team in 06 when he won u-21 title.

I know it has taken some of them longer to establish themselves as top seniors but not all that much longer, AOS  is 22 and an established top midfielder , some would say one of the finest in the country.

Cillian o Connor was u-21 this year and he also is a recognised top player.

My point is i think the Ross are waiting for something to happen automatically , that might not happen imo for lots of reasons, main one being ye have no players there to blend them with or bring them on.

Really tough times ahead for Roscommon.

Mayo look really really good, quality all over the park, i believe we will win the all  Ireland.

Keith Higgins walked onto a team that was about to contest it's second AI final in three years, CO'C a team going to the AISF and AI final in his first two years. We've been building from pretty much square one post-Maughan, as late as 2011 were were in D4. The 2006 minors are looked to as experienced players but they're only 24 and can't be expected to become veterns just because there's not many older than them.

Basically trying to compare development arcs between counties is a fool's game. What's progress to one county isn't to another.

Patience and planning remain the key words for us.

In fairness you've won one all-ireland minor in 06ish and contested one all-ireland u21 final in 2012

Galway have won 2 all-ireland u21's and aren't next to near anything at senior level.

We've won a rake of underage titles at leinster level at hurling and beaten kilkenny several times and are still miles behind them at senior level.

I'm not convinced there will be any revolution for Roscommon simply from patience. Underage titles can be a curse at times as lads go onto senior panels expecting things to happen. Senior is a massive step up from u21. If you get 3 good seniors from an u21 team you've done well

The Mad thing is that there are 10 players who played in Mayos u-21 2006 AI in the present squad!

[ross matt]

What sort of time frame are you looking at for these underage lads to become stars of their senior team.

I look at likes of K.Higgans , he was on senior team in 06 when he won u-21 title.

I know it has taken some of them longer to establish themselves as top seniors but not all that much longer, AOS  is 22 and an established top midfielder , some would say one of the finest in the country.

Cillian o Connor was u-21 this year and he also is a recognised top player.

My point is i think the Ross are waiting for something to happen automatically , that might not happen imo for lots of reasons, main one being ye have no players there to blend them with or bring them on.

Really tough times ahead for Roscommon.

Mayo look really really good, quality all over the park, i believe we will win the all  Ireland.

Keith Higgins walked onto a team that was about to contest it's second AI final in three years, CO'C a team going to the AISF and AI final in his first two years. We've been building from pretty much square one post-Maughan, as late as 2011 were were in D4. The 2006 minors are looked to as experienced players but they're only 24 and can't be expected to become veterns just because there's not many older than them.

Basically trying to compare development arcs between counties is a fool's game. What's progress to one county isn't to another.

Patience and planning remain the key words for us.

In fairness you've won one all-ireland minor in 06ish and contested one all-ireland u21 final in 2012

Galway have won 2 all-ireland u21's and aren't next to near anything at senior level.

We've won a rake of underage titles at leinster level at hurling and beaten kilkenny several times and are still miles behind them at senior level.

I'm not convinced there will be any revolution for Roscommon simply from patience. Underage titles can be a curse at times as lads go onto senior panels expecting things to happen. Senior is a massive step up from u21. If you get 3 good seniors from an u21 team you've done well

I agree with you Indiana on most of this post and your previous one. I think there are two or three reasons that I can see for Roscommon's lack of progress at senior level. Two years ago under of O'Donnell they were taking shape having one a Connacht title the previous year and running Mayo to 2 points in the 2011 final plus competing well in Croker with Tyrone for alot of that back door match.

Fergal left then and the team regressed disasterously under the management that followed. Mayo in the meantime kicked on in terms of strenght/conditioning/tactics/big match experience etc. Hence you're correct in saying that we were miles of them in terms of fitness yesterday. I think if O'Donnell had remained there would have been steady significant progress... maybe not enough to win yesterday but certainly enough to be competitive and to have been promoted from division 3.

Which brings me  to my next point.... Mayo clearly have benefited from playing top class teams in their current division 1 league. In terms of skill.... pace.... speed of thought + big game croker experience. This has hardened them alot.

Our successful underage sides are coming on to a senior side that is still stuck (deservedly so) in division 3. That gulf in standard is consequently reflected in their championship performance and development as adult players.

I'm also not convinced winning and constantly competing for an AI club title is particularly helpful to a county team if alot of your best players are not with the county squad for long periods as a result. Senan Kilbride and Karol Mannion yesterday were shadows of the players they were in Croker on Paddys day. Not for a moment taking from the Brigids or Crossmaglens of this world but there is still a massive jump from high level club football to standard county.

Roscommon showed very little heart or leadership yesterday. Perhaps they've become too nice and stylish as footballers. Cregg was the one person I expected who would take the match by the scruff of the neck but he was untypically poor.

I wouldnt write them off. There are some fine footballers on that squad and in the back door (if they dont drop the heads) they are capable of a win or two if they avoid the likes of Tyrone. They are miles off the Mayo's of this world now but so are most sides with the exception of Donegal,  Dublin, Kerry, Cork & Tyrone.

It's  a concern though that underage success is not filtering through. Galway must be the most successful underage county in the last decade and their senior record has been abysmal in the same time period. The step up from minor/u-21 to senior is a much bigger one than it used to be.

[ross4life]

I'm not convinced there will be any revolution for Roscommon simply from patience. Underage titles can be a curse at times as lads go onto senior panels expecting things to happen. Senior is a massive step up from u21. If you get 3 good seniors from an u21 team you've done well

Yes it can be a curse especially if you win All Ireland title some young lads see themselves as stars before making the step up to senior level. In our case apart from winning at odd Connacht title our minors,U-21 the last five years haven't won All Irelands but they have been every bit as good as the Mayo,Galway at underage.

As for yesterday we played against seasoned experienced outfit, the Mayo we faced yesterday compared to 2011 team was worlds apart. We made 8 changes from our last championship game (too many IMO) and of course are now under new managment TBH it was always going to difficult game for us it's just disappointing that we couldn't stick to our working game plan for longer.

Collins,O'Malley,the two Dalys,two Smiths,Compton,Cathal Shine etc are only starting out at senior level it takes time to make the step up some will do it some won't. The only experenced players we had in our starting 15 was Sean McDermott,Mannion,Senan Kilbride,Finneran,Cregg and apart from Cregg none of them are leaders and all of them haven't even beaten Mayo at underage level.

[imtommygunn]

Would you not see Mannion as a leader?

[GalwayBayBoy]

As far as Connacht goes anyway, Mayo have moved onto a different level to the rest in terms of professional preparation, strength and conditioning programs, tactical approach to the modern game, etc, etc. The other Connacht counties may think they are doing enough preparation but they are not. It's that simple. The game has moved on from 10 or even 5 years ago. Syferus does have a point in saying that Galway or Roscommon lads are well used to beating Mayo at underage (some of the very same players now on the Mayo senior team) so how has such a gap been allowed to develop at senior? Granted this gap won't last forever as every team has a natural life cycle but it's certainly a very large one at present

[ross matt]

As far as Connacht goes anyway, Mayo have moved onto a different level to the rest in terms of professional preparation, strength and conditioning programs, tactical approach to the modern game, etc, etc. The other Connacht counties may think they are doing enough preparation but they are not. It's that simple. The game has moved on from 10 or even 5 years ago. Syferus does have a point in saying that Galway or Roscommon lads are well used to beating Mayo at underage (some of the very same players now on the Mayo senior team) so how has such a gap been allowed to develop at senior? Granted this gap won't last forever as every team has a natural life cycle but it's certainly a very large one at present

+1

[Farrandeelin]

As far as Connacht goes anyway, Mayo have moved onto a different level to the rest in terms of professional preparation, strength and conditioning programs, tactical approach to the modern game, etc, etc. The other Connacht counties may think they are doing enough preparation but they are not. It's that simple. The game has moved on from 10 or even 5 years ago. Syferus does have a point in saying that Galway or Roscommon lads are well used to beating Mayo at underage (some of the very same players now on the Mayo senior team) so how has such a gap been allowed to develop at senior? Granted this gap won't last forever as every team has a natural life cycle but it's certainly a very large one at present

+1

A lot of that is down to Horan and his team to be fair.

[From the Bunker]

As far as Connacht goes anyway, Mayo have moved onto a different level to the rest in terms of professional preparation, strength and conditioning programs, tactical approach to the modern game, etc, etc. The other Connacht counties may think they are doing enough preparation but they are not. It's that simple. The game has moved on from 10 or even 5 years ago. Syferus does have a point in saying that Galway or Roscommon lads are well used to beating Mayo at underage (some of the very same players now on the Mayo senior team) so how has such a gap been allowed to develop at senior? Granted this gap won't last forever as every team has a natural life cycle but it's certainly a very large one at present

+1

Brolly hit the nail on the head a few weeks ago when he said that many teams can be going through the motions in thinking they are training hard and they are up to a certain level. Just like Galway and Roscommon who were in their their divisional cocoons over the spring. Mayo are in a cocoon of Connacht football at the moment, what looks like a different level may not be as high a level when they meet the (so called) big boys.

[Rudi]

Mayo were superb yesterday and the last day out against Galway. However they are spending insane money that they don't have. As an operation they could be the first county to be wound up.

[Jinxy]

I know a lad from Mayo that has the hotel booked for September already.

[Lar Naparka]

Mayo were superb yesterday and the last day out against Galway. However they are spending insane money that they don't have. As an operation they could be the first county to be wound up.

Care to fill us in?