Physical contact in Gaelic games

[Milltown Row2]

A lot has been made of the Black Card being introduced and there seems to be a witch hunt in hurling lately, with have jurno's complaining of lenient refereeing in hurling and top footballing referees saying the same.

Physical contact in both codes has always been a great feature of our game as long as it's within the rules then I'm fine with it, but it's impossible now to keep everyone happy and to have consistency.

The speed of the game has intensified and the size of the players at inter county level has increased, when tackles are made some players come out in a bad way, as Fergal Moore found out when trying to take down Walter Walsh on Sunday (what possessed him to do that I'll never know!!)

Do we take away the physical contact so that it becomes like soccer, a non contact sport? thus making decisions on refereeing easier or do we coach teams to not be cynical in the tackle, and make honest attempts to win the ball.

I've been refereeing for a while and players managers and supporters interpretation of the rules are always different, they only complain when the other team allegedly foul and never complain when their own players foul, if supporters and the like were a bit more educated in the rules and application of them we'd be in a lot better place

[blewuporstuffed]

I think what frustrates people the most is the sheer inconsistancy of it.
Some referees will let a fair bit of physicall stuff go, others will blow a free as soon as the man in possession goes to ground, whether there is a foul or not.
I think the major difficulty for referees is differentiating between what is a genuine attempt to tackle/play the ball, with incidental contact & what is a cynical atempt to purposely foul the opponet.
As you say, the game is played at such a pace, that alot of times its difficult to make that distinction.

One rule change i think that would help, is that if a player goes to ground in possesion of the ball (eg takes a catch and ends up on the ground, or is knocked over while picking the ball up) the oposition should not be allowed to tackle them at all untill they are back on thier feet.
I think it is a very clear distinction of what is allowed and what isnt and would end alot of the incidents where a player takes a great catch, ends up on the ground and get ths head battered off him trying to get up. As its stands,50% of the time  he gets a free and the other 50% he gets blown for over carrying!

[Fuzzman]

I agree MR2.
It always amazes me at county games how many fans never admit that was a foul.
I usually try to think how would I feel if that was the other way round though in the heat of a tight competitive match, its not always easy to be rational.

Another question I used to wonder was, do refs give frees easier to some players such as smaller less well built players whereas I have watched for years defenders hanging out of people like Stephen O'Neill or Mugsy and me thinking surely that would be blown if it was on a younger or smaller wee player.
As a ref does your sub-concious make you think that way?

[fearglasmor]

Physical contact in both codes has always been a great feature of our game as long as it's within the rules then I'm fine with it, but it's impossible now to keep everyone happy and to have consistency.

MR2 just wondering, especially as you are a referee, what physical contact is actually allowed under the rules ?  I always thought that the only contact allowed directly on another player is the shoulder charge and I think its fair to say that the rules and refereeing has taken this almost completely out of the game. Apart from the shoulder you can only attack the ball and all you can do with regard to the player is to shadow them. So if you take those rules literally what we are actually playing is field basketball.  Or maybe I have it all wrong.

[Jeepers Creepers]

Was just thinking the same!?

[Milltown Row2]

Physical contact in both codes has always been a great feature of our game as long as it's within the rules then I'm fine with it, but it's impossible now to keep everyone happy and to have consistency.

MR2 just wondering, especially as you are a referee, what physical contact is actually allowed under the rules ?  I always thought that the only contact allowed directly on another player is the shoulder charge and I think its fair to say that the rules and refereeing has taken this almost completely out of the game. Apart from the shoulder you can only attack the ball and all you can do with regard to the player is to shadow them. So if you take those rules literally what we are actually playing is field basketball.  Or maybe I have it all wrong.

Incidental contact would be psychical, the players have no intent and in that incidence I'd let play continue, shoulder to shoulder is fine also, hand on the back is allowed as long as you don't push him, trying to palm the ball from another player while he is holding onto the ball is also allowed, two players going to field a ball can have contact also. But yes a lot of club/county team do play like field basketball anyways with the use of the handpass.

I'm 5'6 and never got an easy touch from the referees in any of my days playing. If I happened to get pushed over then it's a foul if I was bundled over while trying to collect the ball from a bigger player then tough, no amount of whining by me ever won me a foul. If you're playing senior then the rules apply no matter what your size is.

blewuporstuffed, that very topic was discussed on Saturday with Pat McEnaney, he was very vocal on that, one man I wouldn't like to say no to I tell ya

[Keyser soze]

I was at a club match on Sunday past. EVERY time there was any physical contact or an attempt made to tackle the referee blew for a free. This was what I would term an open clean game of football, I don't think there was a bad tackle or booking in the whole match for a bad tackle. There must have been in excess of 80 frees as  every contact between players no matter how slight resulted in a free.

It was quite funny to watch as we were commenting on a peculiar phenomenon which this referee was particularly prone to, but which is very common now. [He also got the scores wrong and made the scoreboard change at halftime to reflect his wrong score. ]

When a player went into a tackle and was held up he was generally awarded a free for whatever reason. When a player went into a tackle with 2 or three of the opposition tackling him the free was invariably given against the ballcarrier for overcarrying. This is something that has become really prevalent in the game, it doesn't make sense. 1 man tackles you its a free to you, 3 men tackle you it's a free against you.

[blewuporstuffed]

I was at a club match on Sunday past. EVERY time there was any physical contact or an attempt made to tackle the referee blew for a free. This was what I would term an open clean game of football, I don't think there was a bad tackle or booking in the whole match for a bad tackle. There must have been in excess of 80 frees as  every contact between players no matter how slight resulted in a free.

It was quite funny to watch as we were commenting on a peculiar phenomenon which this referee was particularly prone to, but which is very common now. [He also got the scores wrong and made the scoreboard change at halftime to reflect his wrong score. ]

When a player went into a tackle and was held up he was generally awarded a free for whatever reason. When a player went into a tackle with 2 or three of the opposition tackling him the free was invariably given against the ballcarrier for overcarrying. This is something that has become really prevalent in the game, it doesn't make sense. 1 man tackles you its a free to you, 3 men tackle you it's a free against you.

Apart from the bit about getting the scores wrong, that could ahve been our game last sunday.
Every time a player took the ball into contact, all he had to do was go to ground to get a free, wether there was any foul or not.( refereed like this for both side i have to say)

It leaves it impossible for a defender to know what a legal tackle is and what isnt.
There is alot of talk about changing rules to remove the cynical 'pulling & dragging' that slows the game down, which is all fair enough, but as big a problem i feel  is players going to ground looking ( and usually getting) frees where there is no foul. This adds to the stoppages and ugly passages of play much more than the amount of actual cynical fouls.

[Milltown Row2]

We see it all to often, a player running for a ball which is traveling low and defender/attacker behind, the player gets a tap on the back and falls over and wins a free, the minute the player is pushed he's fouled, if the player whos chasing him doesnt touch him and the  player goes down then it's not a foul. Too many times players feel the need to push or nudge the player when he's dipping for the ball.

[Fuzzman]

I was a forward in my day so I would agree strongly but you see a lot of people nowadays think this shouldn't be a free. They take the attitude. ahh he hardly touched him ref. They think a "little" push or nudge is OK.

In the 2005 AI semi final C.McKeever was pulling and dragging at Stevie O'Neill all day. Sometimes the ref was give a foul but a lot of times in my biased eyes he let it go. Then right at the end he again goes to tackle and pulls his arm a wee bit. The ref gives a free in and the Armagh lads go mad as they don't see the consistency.

I think it would be very interesting if we could see a video of some ref like McEnaney go through a whole match afterwards and comment what should have been a free and what wasn't. Then everyone would have a better understanding of what is a foul & what isn't. A lot of people really have lost tough with what constitutes as a foul these days.

[Milltown Row2]

I think it would be very interesting if we could see a video of some ref like McEnaney go through a whole match afterwards and comment what should have been a free and what wasn't. Then everyone would have a better understanding of what is a foul & what isn't. A lot of people really have lost tough with what constitutes as a foul these days.

He showed video clips of a lot of games and put it to the referees at Croke park last week and asked us to give a view on them, I did to my regret FFS but nothing is as clear cut as you think sometimes